Trump Administration to Step Up US Arms Sales(Trump Getting Personally Involved)

Obama actually blocked a large weapons sale package to Saudi Arabia over their war in Yemen. Trump lifted the block.

I don't have an issue with weapon sales, the issue all Americans should have is with which countries are getting these weapons.

Thats nice, he still offered the most weaponry and training to them in the 71 year history of the US-Saudi alliance

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama’s administration has offered Saudi Arabia more than $115 billion in weapons, other military equipment and training, the most of any U.S. administration in the 71-year U.S.-Saudi alliance, a report seen by Reuters has found

The report, authored by William Hartung of the U.S.-based Center for International Policy, said the offers were made in 42 separate deals, and the majority of the equipment has yet to be delivered. Hartung told Reuters the report would be made available publicly on Sept. 8.

The report said U.S. arms offers to Saudi Arabia since Obama took office in January 2009 have included everything from small arms and ammunition to tanks, attack helicopters, air-to-ground missiles, missile defense ships, and warships. Washington also provides maintenance and training to Saudi security forces.

The Center’s report is based on data from the Defense Security Cooperation Agency, a Department of Defense body that provides figures on arms sales offers and Foreign Military Sales agreements. Most of the offers, which are reported to Congress, become formal agreements though some are abandoned or amended. The report did not disclose how many of the offers to Saudi Arabia were agreed.

Washington’s arms sales to Riyadh recently have come under fire from rights groups and some members of Congress are disturbed by the rising number of civilian casualties in the war in Yemen, where a coalition led by Saudi Arabia is fighting Iran-allied Houthi rebels.


The conflict has killed at least 10,000 people. Last month the United Nations human rights office said that 3,799 civilians have died in the conflict, with coalition air strikes responsible for an estimated 60 percent of the deaths.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...to-saudi-top-115-billion-report-idUSKCN11D2JQ


Not to mention that the US itself actually took part in bombing Yemen under his term

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/15/us-bombed-yemen-middle-east-conflict
 
My point was that its outdated hardware.
Ah right. Well, it's the norm for Russian arms deals to involve older designs and lower tier export versions.
For that matter I don't think it's any different with the Abrams tanks they've "coproduced" with the US.
Sounds like communism to me.
The evolution of Nasserism.
 
Ah right. Well, it's the norm for Russian arms deals to involve older designs and lower tier export versions.
For that matter I don't think it's any different with the Abrams tanks they've "coproduced" with the US.
Fair enough, you got me there
The evolution of Nasserism.
Maybe but I think Nasser be rolling in his grave given how close Sisi is to Israel.
 
I was saying that I want new, stronger arms control treaties.

For example: I think it should be illegal to sell weapons to any country that isn't Democratic in nature. So, that means no weapons systems to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, etc.

I want the Middle East to be a Nuclear Free Zone(I'm looking at you, Israel).

Also, spare me the stupid posts about how it isn't realistic. I know, but that doesn't mean that I won't advocate for what I believe is right.
I agree with all of this except the Nuke free Israel. I support them having it as, Nukes is the only thing that can ensure their continued existence as Israel.
 
I was saying that I want new, stronger arms control treaties.

For example: I think it should be illegal to sell weapons to any country that isn't Democratic in nature. So, that means no weapons systems to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, etc.

I want the Middle East to be a Nuclear Free Zone(I'm looking at you, Israel).

Also, spare me the stupid posts about how it isn't realistic. I know, but that doesn't mean that I won't advocate for what I believe is right.
One avenue would be to include arms control into trade agreements. Because everything else under the sun is, that’s why.
 
Yeah, more about populism, authoritarianism and remaking parliament to suit his agenda apparently.
Nasserism faded away for a reason and trying to only revive the political side with the economic angle seems like a recipe for disaster.

Egypt is in a weird place. On the one hand the fact that a military dictator is in power seems natural given its recent history but on the other hand it doesn't seems like its a sustainable state of affairs in the long run.
 
Nasserism faded away for a reason and trying to only revive the political side with the economic angle seems like a recipe for disaster.

Egypt is in a weird place. On the one hand the fact that a military dictator is in power seems natural given its recent history but on the other hand it doesn't seems like its a sustainable state of affairs in the long run.

Well, there's not really much sign of the economic liberalism Sisi supposedly supports. Sure, it's a market economy, but who will be able to compete with the military? Not only because of their institutional advantages, but with the level of endemic corruption. It's a centrally controlled economy, even if that control is more through corruption than a technocratic nature.
 
Well, there's not really much sign of the economic liberalism Sisi supposedly supports. Sure, it's a market economy, but who will be able to compete with the military? Not only because of their institutional advantages, but with the level of endemic corruption. It's a centrally controlled economy, even if that control is more through corruption than a technocratic nature.
Its been that way for some time though. I remember reading that before the revolution the military controlled somewhere between 7%-40% of the country's economy based on various estimates and what is considered military control(direct or indirect). Seems like Sisi is just making it more obvious and taking more of the pie for the military unlike Mubarak who tried to create a more independent base from the military but economic liberalization in the authoritarian states of the region seems almost synonymous with some level of corruption.
 
Its been that way for some time though. I remember reading that before the revolution the military controlled somewhere between 7%-40% of the country's economy based on various estimates and what is considered military control(direct or indirect). Seems like Sisi is just making it more obvious and taking more of the pie for the military unlike Mubarak who tried to create a more independent base from the military but economic liberalization in the authoritarian states of the region seems almost synonymous with some level of corruption.

Yeah, that's what they are saying. The corruption hasn't changed, but Mubarak's circle of oligarchs has been replaced with no doubt equally wealthy and corrupt military figures. The military actually seems to have less oversight and accountability though. Is there a positive example of Military Juntas and massive overgrown military industrial complexes? I certainly can't think of one. I guess there's always the "lesser evil" argument.
 
Yeah, that's what they are saying. The corruption hasn't changed, but Mubarak's circle of oligarchs has been replaced with no doubt equally wealthy and corrupt military figures. The military actually seems to have less oversight and accountability though. Is there a positive example of Military Juntas and massive overgrown military industrial complexes? I certainly can't think of one. I guess there's always the "lesser evil" argument.
If by "lesser evil" you mean relative to a Brotherhood government I have to say I'm in the minority on this site in disagreeing.
 
If by "lesser evil" you mean relative to a Brotherhood government I have to say I'm in the minority on this site in disagreeing.

I was actually thinking more generally and a little closer to home (Thailand), but Morsi was failing hard before he was ousted. You could argue that military juntas have provided stability which is preferable to civil war, but that's the same excuse that's always been used for propping up dictators and riding roughshod over the interests and self-determination of populations.
If anything, the last couple of decades have shown the penalties for those cold war sins.
 
I was actually thinking more generally and a little closer to home (Thailand), but Morsi was failing hard before he was ousted. You could argue that military juntas have provided stability which is preferable to civil war, but that's the same excuse that's always been used for propping up dictators and riding roughshod over the interests and self-determination of populations.
If anything, the last couple of decades have shown the penalties for those cold war sins.
Yeah Morsi was incompetent, will not deny that one bit, but he wasn't visiting violence upon the Egyptians on the scale the Sisi regime is. Maybe that is a necessarily evil by Sisi but I'm not inclined to buy that.
 
Bases are very expensive. Closing them would save billions.

Yes it would but the us would suffer significant loses in power. Projecting similar levels of power in a mobile form (carrier groups) would overide savings.
 
Yes it would but the us would suffer significant loses in power. Projecting similar levels of power in a mobile form (carrier groups) would overide savings.
We gain nothing from projecting power other then enabling the places we project our power to skimp on their own military. With out closing the bases how else would you pair back military spending with out harming it's combat effectiveness?
 
If by "lesser evil" you mean relative to a Brotherhood government I have to say I'm in the minority on this site in disagreeing.
I know I have gone back and forth with you on this before, but why would a religious extremist group like the Brother hood be any better? I remember from our past conversations you mentioned something about how they would be better for civic actions, but I don't see how they would be any better on the personal freedoms side of things. I mean, all I have to do is look at the other countries in the ME whose government is heavily influenced by Islamic Teachings and note the pairing back of personal freedom.
 
Sounds good to me. Sneak in some strong worker and environmental protections, and we're in business.
The more stuff like that you add to simple trade agreements the harder you make them to sign.
 
Ollie North somewhere mad as shit right now.


And that mother fucker acted on orders!
It was closer to the truth that Reagan told Ollie how much he hated those darn Sandinistas and then looked the other way intensely
 
I know I have gone back and forth with you on this before, but why would a religious extremist group like the Brother hood be any better? I remember from our past conversations you mentioned something about how they would be better for civic actions, but I don't see how they would be any better on the personal freedoms side of things. I mean, all I have to do is look at the other countries in the ME whose government is heavily influenced by Islamic Teachings and note the pairing back of personal freedom.
Like I said, they didn't visit the kind of violence on their own people that the military regime did. Within a few months the military had slaughtered hundreds of people, the Morsi government did nothing like that despite facing protests. Is it partly because of a lack of ability due to a somewhat flimsy control of the security apparatus? Probably but nonetheless the outcome is the same, they're less repressive in practice.

You can't just compare all governments that have some Islamic influence, that would be like comparing Uganda and the US because we both have Christian politics. The gulf is much bigger between those two than between Islamists in the MidEast but the point is the same; the Brotherhood are not Wahhabis or the Taliban. I think it would've been better to let the Morsi government have its term and then vote them out then acquiesce to a military coup and abort the democratic experiment entirely. I'm sure you've had your issues with certain US administrations but would a military coup be an acceptable solution for you? Or do you wait for the next election cycle?
 
Last edited:
Back
Top