TRUMP - and the politics of being wrong

[Jack V Savage]

“More illegal immigration doesn’t equal more violent crime” is not good enough against actual stats

Read the actual stats, friend.

As I said, you cannot expect Trotsky to retract when all the evidence supports him. I'm not seeing why you're having so much trouble simply admitting that you goofed. Note that you asked for one study and you got four. And you're still not backing down.

And honestly it is NOT what Trotsky said in the other thread. Sadly, You seem to think he said something he did not say

I’ll have to take ACTUAL stats over these studies you can’t even seem to post properly. Especially when the headline of your link is NOT what is being argued to begin with

Read the link and the studies contained in it. You're going to feel silly, but at least you'll stop making a fool of yourself (in this thread at least).

 

[BangersAndSmash]

Your link does not work

Post an unbiased study that shows ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE MORE LAW ABIDING than Citizens. It’s simple

ALL incarceration stats(only real evidence we have) shows that you are HILARIOUSLY wrong

You need something to actually counter the ACTUAL stats we have.

But to be honest the actual incarceration rates/stats are clear evidence you are wrong

So here you are pulling a Trump even when the actual stats show you are wrong. You really have this in common with Trump

Cato institute study of criminal immigrants in texas:
https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/irpb-4-updated.pdf

a study from a journal called Criminlogy:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1745-9125.12175

A study about undocumented youthful offenders from Migration Letters, a UK journal:
https://sites01.lsu.edu/faculty/pfr...ding-histories-of-undocumented-immigrants.pdf

There's three. I can't wait to hear how these are all biased and wrong.

 

[SBJJ]

Read the actual stats, friend.

As I said, you cannot expect Trotsky to retract when all the evidence supports him. I'm not seeing why you're having so much trouble simply admitting that you goofed.



Read the link and the studies contained in it. You're going to feel silly, but at least you'll stop making a fool of yourself (in this thread at least).

Oh. You think the stats back you?

Let us bet. If the incarceration rates back you up, you win

I’ll read any stats you post if you actually post them. Your link is broken

 

[Jack V Savage]

Cato institute study of criminal immigrants in texas:
https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/irpb-4-updated.pdf

a study from a journal called Criminlogy:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1745-9125.12175

A study about undocumented youthful offenders from Migration Letters, a UK journal:
https://sites01.lsu.edu/faculty/pfr...ding-histories-of-undocumented-immigrants.pdf

There's three. I can't wait to hear how these are all biased and wrong.

Yeah, I think it's a safe bet they all have fatal flaws that the researchers and reviewers did not find, but untrained supergenius SBJJ will at a glance.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

.

wasnt Omarosa known as an evil bitch who would do anything to get ahead back on The Apprentice? What a role model.

And what was Trump's reputation like during that same timeframe?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Oh. You think the stats back you?

Let us bet. If the incarceration rates back you up, you win

I’ll read any stats you post if you actually post them. Your link is broken

This is what you get with NPR links:



So I added a space and then posted "delete the space," which tells you how to open the link.

https://www.npr.org/ 2018/05/02/607652253/studies-say-illegal-immigration-does-not-increase-violent-crime

If you follow the instructions (which I didn't think were too difficult), you can open the link.

BTW, I'm still waiting for you to deliver on the last bet you bluffed on.

 

[SBJJ]

Cato institute study of criminal immigrants in texas:
https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/irpb-4-updated.pdf

a study from a journal called Criminlogy:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1745-9125.12175

A study about undocumented youthful offenders from Migration Letters, a UK journal:
https://sites01.lsu.edu/faculty/pfr...ding-histories-of-undocumented-immigrants.pdf

There's three. I can't wait to hear how these are all biased and wrong.

The CATO study has been debunked. The other 2 do not go into if Illegal aliens are more law abiding

Are you aware of the actual incarceration stats? These are stats bro. Stats!

 

[SBJJ]

This is what you get with NPR links:



So I added a space and then posted "delete the space," which tells you how to open the link.

https://www.npr.org/ 2018/05/02/607652253/studies-say-illegal-immigration-does-not-increase-violent-crime

Why is this hard for you. YOUR HEADLINE TO YOUR LINK IS NOT(REPEAT NOT) WHAT WAS EVEN BEING DISCUSSED

Again, feel free to post actual STATS of incarceration rates to show you are right. I’m willing to BET those stats back me up

 

[Jack V Savage]

Why is this hard for you. YOUR HEADLINE TO YOUR LINK IS NOT(REPEAT NOT) WHAT WAS EVEN BEING DISCUSSED

Again, feel free to post actual STATS of incarceration rates to show you are right. I’m willing to BET those stats back me up

Open the actual link and read the studies referred to. I know you can do this, man. If you're still having trouble following the instructions I gave you about how to open the link, maybe find an adult nearby whom you trust to help you.

 

[BangersAndSmash]

The CATO study has been debunked. The other 2 do not go into if Illegal aliens are more law abiding

Are you aware of the actual incarceration stats? These are stats bro. Stats!

1)What's wrong with the CATO institute study?

2)There's no way to know if someone is law abiding. We can only know if they've been arrested, convicted of a crime or if they claim to be law abiding.

3)I'm aware that incarceration stats exist. Obviously those stats have figured into the studies I listed above. Link me the one's you want to see.

 

[SBJJ]

Open the actual link and read the studies referred to. I know you can do this, man. If you're still having trouble following the instructions I gave you about how to open the link, maybe find an adult nearby whom you trust to help you.

Why? If you can’t post a proper link that’s on you

Maybe find an adult near by that can help you post a link.

So we up for a bet?

 

[Trotsky]

I remember that conversation and I can't recall receiving a proper rebuttal to posting statistics which pointed out the enormously disproportionate number of illegal immigrants in American prison, detailed by official authorities. We are not merely talking about a slight disproportion, but a massive disproportion.

Lol, then you weren't paying attention, or weren't in the presence of an even slightly competent person.

The statistics are disproportionate because they include immigration offenses: without accommodating for that variable, 100% of undocumented immigrants have committed crime, and every person picked up for illegal presence or stopped at the border becomes a criminal categorically. And because of the very narrow scope of federal crime (the vast majority of criminal offenses are handled at the state level), the prevalence of undocumented immigrants is even more pronounced since immigration offenses are far, far away the most frequent federal crime.

Controlling for immigration offenses, there is absolutely no evidence that undocumented immigrants commit more crime. You just won't find it. Meanwhile, there is evidence (however perpetually incomplete its methodology given the subject matter) and highly suggestive demographic data that shows undocumented immigrants are actually less likely to commit crime than native citizens of the same economic status.

 

[Jack V Savage]

1)What's wrong with the CATO institute study?

Doesn't support the conclusion he wants. It's guaranteed that every study that has that flaw will be rejected. And that's fine, but you can't be upset at someone else for not retracting a claim that is supported by the evidence, even if you think the evidence is misleading in ways you can't articulate.

 

[SBJJ]

1)What's wrong with the CATO institute study?

2)There's no way to know if someone is law abiding. We can only know if they've been arrested, convicted of a crime or if they claim to be law abiding.

3)I'm aware that incarceration stats exist. Obviously those stats have figured into the studies I listed above. Link me the one's you want to see.

You are VERY correct that it is hard to do actual studies because of not having available data from states. That’s why studies are not reliable here

But from what stats we do have from incarceration rates. It’s breathtaking when you compare it to the incarceration rates of citizens

 

[Jack V Savage]

Why? If you can’t post a proper link that’s on you

Maybe find an adult near by that can help you post a link.

So we up for a bet?

I think it's clear that you do not want to see the evidence. I refuse to believe that anyone who can operate a keyboard can be as dumb as you're coming off here.

And, I'll bet that there are multiple studies that show that unauthorized immigrants have a lower rate of crimes not related to being unauthorized immigrants than the native-born population.

 

[SBJJ]

Doesn't support the conclusion he wants. It's guaranteed that every study that has that flaw will be rejected. And that's fine, but you can't be upset at someone else for not retracting a claim that is supported by the evidence, even if you think the evidence is misleading in ways you can't articulate.

Anyway. Now CATO is a reliable source for your tribe

Oh well, I put the bet out there on actual stats. You are now getting into silly banter and GIFs

CATO(open borders) study= evidence

Actual incarceration rates= Fake news

 

[TheGreatA]

It's not a narrative, which is a collection of information that tells a story. It's a simple observation, that most studies that have looked into the issue have made. Summary here:

https://www.npr.org /2018/05/02/607652253/studies-say-illegal-immigration-does-not-increase-violent-crime

Remove the space.

The first study appears to make the assertion that illegal immigrants have not caused an increase in crime, because crime has been declining since the past 30 years. I would say that it is rather difficult to make that assertion considering that there are a number of factors that have led to the decrease of crime over the past 30 years, not the least of which is America's mass incarcerations (a number of whom are the incarcerated illegals kept in federal prisons).

The second study actually makes the hilarious and absurd suggestion that illegal immigration may actually lead to "decreases in public health concerns". I personally have no time for studies attempting to make correlations without any sensible factual basis. You should atleast offer some sort of a tangible explanation as to why you may think that illegal immigration decreases public health concerns. A mere "correlation" doesn't quite cut it, as a host of factors have played part into the betterment of public health and decrease of crime in the past 30 years, the increase of illegal immigration having played a rather minimal part according to any sensible observer.

The third study seems to rely heavily on the data provided by the state of Texas, about the criminality of illegal aliens. However, the study does not cite that the Texas law departments themselves acknowledge that their statistics are likely under-representing the entirety of illegal crime in the state, taking into account only the crimes of the illegals at the time of which they were identified through PEP, which requires the illegal to have had a prior encounter with Department of Homeland Security, in order to have had their finger-prints taken.

"These figures only count individuals who previously had an encounter with DHS that resulted in their fingerprints being entered into the DHS IDENT database. Foreign nationals who enter the country illegally and avoid detection by DHS, but are later arrested by local or state law enforcement for a state offense will not have a DHS response in regard to their lawful status and do not appear in these counts."

The report states:

"It is also important to note that these figures represent the minimum number of crimes associated with criminal illegal aliens"

There does not appear to be a reference made to this rather significant fact, in the article that you posted.

 

[BangersAndSmash]

You are VERY correct that it is hard to do actual studies because of not having available data from states. That’s why studies are not reliable here

But from what stats we do have from incarceration rates. It’s breathtaking when you compare it to the incarceration rates of citizens

So are you talking about the over-representation of illegal immigrants in the federal incarceration rates?

 

[SBJJ]

So are you talking about the over-representation of illegal immigrants in the federal incarceration rates?

That and the State stats we have. Which is not much

There are studies that say universal HC will bankrupt America and there are studies that say it will save money. It’s ridiculous

I’ll take stats over a study any day. Especially when the study is OBVIOUSLY biased. Anyone who believes CATO is unbiased on this issue has been under a rock the last 20 years. I also would not use a FAIR study on this either

 

[SBJJ]

What’s funny is that I freely admit legal immigrants are likely the most law abiding part of America.

I just think it’s wrong to declare illegal immigrants are when the actual stats just don’t back it up.