Trump: Dems 'forced' family separation law on the nation

[PolishHeadlock]

Why focus on the Trump administration's poor messaging? That's just a distraction from the real issues.

We're seeing abnormally large numbers of unaccompanied alien minors and family units apprehended at the southern border. At current rates, we'll likely tie or break the previous record (FY 2014) of ~70,000 minors plus ~70,000 family units.

About 95% of these people are from three countries: El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala. Because of Democrat-sponsored, bipartisan-supported legislation (TVPRA), DHS can't return unaccompanied alien minors to their home countries or to a third country (e.g., Mexico or Canada) unless those people are originally from Mexico or Canada. So about 95% of these people get to stay in the USA.

Surely you will acknowledge that this is an absurd system.

President Trump has proposed amending TVPRA to allow repatriation of minors who are not genuine trafficking victims. Has the Democratic leadership presented any fix?

Also, because of the Flores settlement, unaccompanied alien minors are released to DHHS within 20 days of apprehension. DHHS usually places the minors with sponsors in the United States. The only data I've seen (for 2014/2015) are that 80% of the sponsors are undocumented immigrants themselves.

Just shows how incompetent this administration is.

 

[waiguoren]

Just shows how incompetent this administration is.

This is supposed to be a thread about policy, not a place for you to whine about perceived incompetence.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

This is supposed to be a thread about policy, not a place for you to whine about perceived incompetence.

Cry about it

 

[waiguoren]

The Trump administration has no such policy. Doesn't stop this fellow from spreading the falsehood.

 

[SMillard]

That's just wrong. The opposite true. From the Chicago Tribune:

The Trump administration has declared a new "zero-tolerance" policy of prosecuting every immigrant arrested for illegal entry, a practice that is separating parents from their children. Asylum-seekers who turn themselves in to border inspectors usually do not face such a fate.

The article describes long lines at the southern border as people wait to apply for asylum as refugees.

You can be forgiven for this mistake. In the past few days I have noticed multiple mainstream media headlines conflating (1) those who wait at a port of entry to apply for asylum and (2) those who attempt improper entry, are apprehended, and then declare they are seeking asylum.

Is your position that asylum should be granted to any alien who declares that he is seeking asylum, even if he is apprehended on an improper entry? Why not require these people to apply at a port of entry like the thousands mentioned in the article?

I have seen little evidence that people seeking asylum haven't been the recipients of this policy. If it's is in fact the case that a majority are not taken in and facing this policy then I stand corrected, unfortunately I've not seen any data to indicate what percentage are and aren't, all I have heard about are the ones that have, one that stuck in my mind was the woman from Ghana who was one of the first recipients (I was going to say victim, but I'm trying to keep this on the analytical realm).

Spoiler: Sessions Zero Tolerance Directive

Department of Justice Office of Public Affairs
Attorney General Announces Zero-Tolerance Policy for Criminal Illegal Entry
April 6, 2018

Attorney General Jeff Sessions today notified all U.S. Attorney’s Offices along the Southwest Border of a new “zero-tolerance policy” for offenses under 8 U.S.C. § 1325(a), which prohibits both attempted illegal entry and illegal entry into the United States by an alien. The implementation of the Attorney General’s zero-tolerance policy comes as the Department of Homeland Security reported a 203 percent increase in illegal border crossings from March 2017 to March 2018, and a 37 percent increase from February 2018 to March 2018—the largest month-to-month increase since 2011.

“The situation at our Southwest Border is unacceptable. Congress has failed to pass effective legislation that serves the national interest—that closes dangerous loopholes and fully funds a wall along our southern border. As a result, a crisis has erupted at our Southwest Border that necessitates an escalated effort to prosecute those who choose to illegally cross our border,” said Attorney General Jeff Sessions. “To those who wish to challenge the Trump Administration’s commitment to public safety, national security, and the rule of law, I warn you: illegally entering this country will not be rewarded, but will instead be met with the full prosecutorial powers of the Department of Justice. To the Department’s prosecutors, I urge you: promoting and enforcing the rule of law is vital to protecting a nation, its borders, and its citizens. You play a critical part in fulfilling these goals, and I thank you for your continued efforts in seeing to it that our laws—and as a result, our nation—are respected.”

On April 11, 2017, Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced a renewed commitment to criminal immigration enforcement. As part of that announcement, the Attorney General issued a memorandum to all federal prosecutors and directed them to prioritize the prosecution of certain criminal immigration offenses.

Today’s zero-tolerance policy further directs each U.S. Attorney’s Office along the Southwest Border (i.e., Southern District of California, District of Arizona, District of New Mexico, Western District of Texas, and the Southern District of Texas) to adopt a policy to prosecute all Department of Homeland Security referrals of section 1325(a) violations, to the extent practicable.

Also, starting in early May, Sessions gave multiple public statements indicating that family separation is a likely outcome of the zero-tolerance policy:

I have put in place a zero-tolerance policy for illegal entry on our southwest border. If you cross the border unlawfully, then we will prosecute you. It's that simple. If you smuggle illegal aliens across our border, then we will prosecute you. If you are smuggling a child, then we will prosecute you and that child may be separated from you as required by law.

He announced it in early May to a US English speaking crowd. So far from what I've seen the DHS, Border Patrol nor DOJ have issued any international warnings ot communicates to other governments to inform their population. Oddly nothing is mentioned about the over 400,000 illegals that come here from China, which was something that shocked me in my limited research of the issue. They were relying on a word of mouth relay of the information. They were totally caught off guard with the volume compared to their capabilities. Again, you have Sessions and Kelly with the "this is a deterrent" policy, then Trump and many of the others playing the "our hands our tied, this is a policy we have to to do based on existing laws the Democrats implemented". The duplicity of their reasoning is enough to show that they didn't plan this out very well

When did Trump ever claim he would build a solid wall the entire length of the US-Mexico border? During the Republican primary race in 2015, Trump stated repeatedly that the wall would not be needed across the entire border due to natural barriers and the fact that some of the existing structures are acceptable.

TRUMP: You know, you know, the Great Wall of China is 13,000 miles. It was built 2,000 years ago. It was actually built over a long period of time, but it started 2,000 - it's a long time. So 13,000 miles. What we're talking about is 2,000 miles, but less, maybe 1,000 because you'll have a lot of territory where you don't need it. You have natural barricades, you have some walls that were built that are OK.

---Donald Trump, September 14, 2015
(Source)

If you're contesting the idea that Trump's wall proposal would be effective, then your views are at direct odds with the National Border Patrol Council (NBPC), which is border agents' union. In their 50-year history, Trump is the only presidential candidate they have ever endorsed. NBPC has consistently called for the building of Trump's southern border wall.

Your view is also at odds with that of Rodney Scott, US Customs and Border Patrol Chief Agent for the San Diego Sector:

"The reason you have a front door with a lock on it is because you believe in walls. If you didn't believe in security---if you believed in open borders, no walls and no impedance---you'd leave your doors open at night. So the concept [of the wall] is solid. There are some areas---for example, right on the border in city environments---I don't want my agents right next to a solid wall that they can't see through. People could lob rocks or molotov cocktails across it. We're being asked what we need and where we need it." March 2018 Source

I recall at times Trump was stating that the wall was to be a coast to coast thing, there were a lot of discussions about it, now if that was just Trump's usual talking rhetoric than fine, but there were a lot of discussions about the fact that the wall couldn't and shouldn't be across the entire border.

Citing China's wall was actually pretty dumb, it didn't do them much good, in fact one of the things Trump left out was that in many cases the additions to the original wall were built by the very people that the original wall was built to keep out, ultimately China was under the control of the Mongols with Kubla Khan, so again using that as his example shows an ignorance of history.

I'm not saying a wall in certain areas isn't prudent, we have them already. I do agree with repair and upgrade of the existing walls and installing sensors and using drones to patrol the border, but not in building new walls in the middle of nowhere.

As far the NBPC and Rodney Scott, Sorry, but I've never been impressed by any of the people I've met from DHS nor the border patrol. So despite the fact they are on the "front line" the simple fact is we aren't putting our brightest and best on that line.

Based on Mr. Scott's last statement you quoted, how often have they encountered people throwing rocks and molotov cocktails? He's making it sound like the southern border is Gaza. I also find it dubious the timing of his statement and I'm sure opinions like his were encouraged and sought out , I'm sure if we looked hard enough we could find someone else in the agency that has a diametrically opposed view/opinion.

 

[Drenalin]

The policy the administration is blaming this on was for unaccompanied children, underaged people that came across the border without family members. It wasn't for taking kids away from their parents when they hit the border. One of the arguments the administration has tried to use as an excuse is "how do we know these are their kids?", when in some cases these are women breastfeeding babies.

The serious overpopulation of these centers is a recent event, like as recent as the past few months. Also, from a demographic the "kids" that this was originally intended to detain was in the age range of pre-teen to mid-teenage kids, you have kids as young as four in facilities with kids as old as 17 and in some cases adults in their 20's that are trying to pass as kids(these individuals are being processed out to the adult facilities as soon as they are discovered). The sad fact is that this great range in age is going to create a predation problem with older kids taking advantage of the younger, add to that the fact that some of the kids will act out violently as a response to being taken from their parents, which in a situation from what I've been told of one adult per eight kid will be almost impossible to control or prevent. Add to it the fact the kids are kept inside for up to 22 hours a day with a two hour "yard time", you might as well keep the kids in the same detention centers with their parents because it isn't a kinder gentler system for the kids.

If this was just for kids of people that are coming in illegally I'd have less a problem with it, but you also have this happening to people that are trying to apply for asylum legally. Also some of the tactics for removing the kids are pretty bad, just be straight up and tell the people "under current policy children and adults are not kept in the same facility, your child will be housed at the "so and so" facility, here is the number to contact and this is your child's case number" seems a lot more humane than "hey, we need to take your kid in the other room for a minute for some vaccinations" then the parent finds out hours later when the ask where their kid is, without knowledge of where the kid is.

What type of person would risk having their kids taken away? Do they expect their kids to go to jail with them? Sounds to me like they need to be charged with child endangerment as well.

I’m sure the liberal logic is that since they have kids with them, they shouldn’t be arrested. Seems like that would be a great get of jail free card

 

[SMillard]

What type of person would risk having their kids taken away? Do they expect their kids to go to jail with them? Sounds to me like they need to be charged with child endangerment as well.

I’m sure the liberal logic is that since they have kids with them, they shouldn’t be arrested. Seems like that would be a great get of jail free card

Or, and I know this is hard to accept. Things are so bad where they are they think it's a better risk to bring their kids with them than leave them where they are or they don't have anyone to leave them with.
Hundreds of people die every year in the deserts crossing the border, some on here make it sound like it's a travel group that they booked with a travel agent.

So to answer your question "what type of person would risk having their kids taken away?" A desperate person

 

[mantis_fist]

No kid should be separated from their parents. Period. This is what Nazis did. And this is what happens when ethnic cleansing takes place. I'm all for border security but damn do it right.

 

[Drenalin]

Or, and I know this is hard to accept. Things are so bad where they are they think it's a better risk to bring their kids with them than leave them where they are or they don't have anyone to leave them with.
Hundreds of people die every year in the deserts crossing the border, some on here make it sound like it's a travel group that they booked with a travel agent.

So to answer your question "what type of person would risk having their kids taken away?" A desperate person

I’ve never walked in their shoes & neither have you. You’re just assuming things. It’s entirely possible that they just want to come here because life is better & they think they can make it here no problem. Maybe make it to a sanctuary city & be safe & have a better life. Does that necessarily mean life was really that bad where they came from, no it doesn’t. It’s possible, but you don’t know what life they had & neither do I. They might just truly think America is this amazing place & millions have snuck in there safely.

There are great parts of Mexico. There is poster on here who lives in Mexico City & talks about how nice it is & no one there wants to come to America.

So why is it America has to save these people & not their own country? Why can’t they just go to a nice part or Mexico?

 

[SMillard]

I’ve never walked in their shoes & neither have you. You’re just assuming things. It’s entirely possible that they just want to come here because life is better & they think they can make it here no problem. Maybe make it to a sanctuary city & be safe & have a better life. Does that necessarily mean life was really that bad where they came from, no it doesn’t. It’s possible, but you don’t know what life they had & neither do I. They might just truly think America is this amazing place & millions have snuck in there safely.

There are great parts of Mexico. There is poster on here who lives in Mexico City & talks about how nice it is & no one there wants to come to America.

So why is it America has to save these people & not their own country? Why can’t they just go to a nice part or Mexico?

Well as far as "why America?" well probably for the same reason your ancestors and mine came here, it's billed as "the land of opportunity". You also don't understand the complete awe so many of these people have for this country.
Yes, there are nice areas in Mexico especially Mexico city but there aren't as many opportunities for them, or they would stay there the language alone would be motivation enough. Another thing about the "Mexican" that talks about how no one wants to come to America, I think I know who you are talking about and he's even stated that a majority of these people coming are not Mexican. Let's face it, Mexico doesn't have the need for the low skilled manual labor that the US does, hence Trump upping the quotas for the temporary work visas

I may not have walked in their shoes, but I've met people that come from these places and heard their stories. I've heard similar stories from numerous people from Hondurans, Guatemalans and Nicaraguans........ I know there are a number of Salvadorans that are part of this mix but I can't say since I haven't really met that many Salvadorans.

Now, we've addressed those "nasty little Spanish speaking brown people", what say you about the fact that more than 40% of the illegals come here by airplane and of the annual numbers of illegals over 400,000 are from China. Why isn't there any outcry about these statistics?

 

[Drenalin]

No kid should be separated from their parents. Period. This is what Nazis did. And this is what happens when ethnic cleansing takes place. I'm all for border security but damn do it right.

You mean absolutely no kids? So if I’m driving drunk & I get arrested, I shouldn’t be separated from my child? Or do you just mean illegals crossing the border shouldn’t be arrested because they have kids with them? I’m confused at how you expect parents & children to stay together when the parents are in jail

 

[Prefect]

Aww he's just using the same defense that has been getting used since kids were too stupid to not stand in front of Lawn Darts. Or the guy that robbed a gas station with Megatron...or the dumb bitch that didnt know McDonalds coffee wa9
s hot....

He was given the tools, why not point to who made it?

Cause fuck addressing the parents that knew who our president was and still chose to roll up any damn way, right?

The Hot Coffee case was a case of corporations using the media to push tort reform to limit liability. The woman in question could have died and ended up needing skin grafs. She just wanted her medical reimbused. The jury awarded more just do to the fact that McD knew about this and it had happened to many other people. No one needs 190F coffee which is extremely dangerous or should be expected to handle it in a moving vehicle.

 

[Drenalin]

Well as far as "why America?" well probably for the same reason your ancestors and mine came here, it's billed as "the land of opportunity". You also don't understand the complete awe so many of these people have for this country.
Yes, there are nice areas in Mexico especially Mexico city but there aren't as many opportunities for them, or they would stay there the language alone would be motivation enough. Another thing about the "Mexican" that talks about how no one wants to come to America, I think I know who you are talking about and he's even stated that a majority of these people coming are not Mexican. Let's face it, Mexico doesn't have the need for the low skilled manual labor that the US does, hence Trump upping the quotas for the temporary work visas

I may not have walked in their shoes, but I've met people that come from these places and heard their stories. I've heard similar stories from numerous people from Hondurans, Guatemalans and Nicaraguans........ I know there are a number of Salvadorans that are part of this mix but I can't say since I haven't really met that many Salvadorans.

Now, we've addressed those "nasty little Spanish speaking brown people", what say you about the fact that more than 40% of the illegals come here by airplane and of the annual numbers of illegals over 400,000 are from China. Why isn't there any outcry about these statistics?

Talking about our ancestors coming here is completely different. Those were different times. That’s another long drawn out topic I don’t feel like getting into.

I have no issue with Hispanics coming here as long they pay taxes like everyone else & work for nothing lower than minimum wage.

You do realize they put American citizens out of jobs because tax paying citizens can’t compete with the wages illegals are willing to work for. It’s a lot easier to work for less when you don’t pay taxes. The excuse is always that illegals do the jobs that no one else wants. Well of course no America’s want those jobs when they don’t pay shit because a non tax paying illegal will do the same job for less. Fact is if people didn’t have the opportunity to pay illegals much less, they would have to pay citizens more to do the same job. Illegals don’t get manual labor jobs because no else wants them, they get those jobs because they are willing to work the lowest wage. This is something no one ever talks about.

My buddy had lawn care company & was making good money. Eventually it got to the point where he couldn’t charge enough to make it even worth his time because illegals were willing to do the work for much cheaper.

I’m all for Hispanics being here as long as they play by the same rules.

 

[bushman505]

You’re a racist imho

That insult has lost all meaning. Yeah well you said something I don’t like so you’re a racist...

 

[cincymma79]

That insult has lost all meaning. Yeah well you said something I don’t like so you’re a racist...

Only a true racist would say that they aren’t racist

 

[bushman505]

Only a true racist would say that they aren’t racist

Yeah ok. So if somebody calls you a racist and you argue that you aren’t....then you are???

Yeah ok fuck off lol.

 

[cincymma79]

Yeah ok. So if somebody calls you a racist and you argue that you aren’t....then you are???

Yeah ok fuck off lol.

Now you’re sexist AND racist

This is how the game is played
I at least have a Jew card I can play if needed

 

[sickc0d3r]

Talking about our ancestors coming here is completely different. Those were different times. That’s another long drawn out topic I don’t feel like getting into.

I have no issue with Hispanics coming here as long they pay taxes like everyone else & work for nothing lower than minimum wage.

You do realize they put American citizens out of jobs because tax paying citizens can’t compete with the wages illegals are willing to work for. It’s a lot easier to work for less when you don’t pay taxes. The excuse is always that illegals do the jobs that no one else wants. Well of course no America’s want those jobs when they don’t pay shit because a non tax paying illegal will do the same job for less. Fact is if people didn’t have the opportunity to pay illegals much less, they would have to pay citizens more to do the same job. Illegals don’t get manual labor jobs because no else wants them, they get those jobs because they are willing to work the lowest wage. This is something no one ever talks about.

My buddy had lawn care company & was making good money. Eventually it got to the point where he couldn’t charge enough to make it even worth his time because illegals were willing to do the work for much cheaper.

I’m all for Hispanics being here as long as they play by the same rules.

Maybe we should throw the American employer's kids in a cell with the immigrants.

 

[SMillard]

Talking about our ancestors coming here is completely different. Those were different times. That’s another long drawn out topic I don’t feel like getting into.

I have no issue with Hispanics coming here as long they pay taxes like everyone else & work for nothing lower than minimum wage.

You do realize they put American citizens out of jobs because tax paying citizens can’t compete with the wages illegals are willing to work for. It’s a lot easier to work for less when you don’t pay taxes. The excuse is always that illegals do the jobs that no one else wants. Well of course no America’s want those jobs when they don’t pay shit because a non tax paying illegal will do the same job for less. Fact is if people didn’t have the opportunity to pay illegals much less, they would have to pay citizens more to do the same job. Illegals don’t get manual labor jobs because no else wants them, they get those jobs because they are willing to work the lowest wage. This is something no one ever talks about.

My buddy had lawn care company & was making good money. Eventually it got to the point where he couldn’t charge enough to make it even worth his time because illegals were willing to do the work for much cheaper.

I’m all for Hispanics being here as long as they play by the same rules.

Personally I think talking about our ancestors has relevance, too many people have forgotten their own history and taken on an air of arrogance that "this is MY country, don't let the foreigners in".

So you are all for HIspanics, but you single them out as the immigration problem in this country when there's a large number coming in from China.... sorry but that makes your "all for" statement seem a little disingenuous.

I've never seen Hispanics legal or "illegal" work for less than minimum wage except for maybe the day laborers but those aren't exclusively Hispanics.

The "putting Americans out of jobs", here's the thing, most of these people don't speak English, a majority have a third to fifth grade education level, so you're telling me that educated English speaking Americans can't compete with these people? I've gotten into this with other people on here before, there are pockets of severe unemployment in the US, the base industry in their area has died out and these people refuse to leave their hometowns to try and make it in places where they need the labor. Yet we have a stigma about people that travel great distance to a strange land where they don't speak the language and don't have the education willing to do shit jobs and that's a national crisis? Yet Trump is on the downlow raising the number of visas for temporary labor because the very industries you are talking about complained they wanted more cheap labor.

The simple truth is there is always a lower class, in this country is happens to be a majority immigrants that make up that lower class. In that lays the hypocrisy, we need these people but we want to stigmatize them as undesirable.

A vast majority of these Hispanic people come here get social security cards, have taxes taken out and contribute to the community. A very large number of them or their children join our military, I've known quite a few that don't want their kids to have the life they had so their kids excel in school because they don't want to screw up the opportunity they've been lucky enough to get, and they know they are lucky. I've known numerous people that came here and at some point had an illegal status, they saved up thousands of dollars to hire attorneys to get residency status and a majority of them do the same to get their citizenship. It's amazing how proud and celebratory they are when they get their citizenship.

Sorry about your friend with the lawn care service, but I see so many lawn care services where I live in South Florida and a majority of them are owned by white and black Americans, my own lawn service I use are Evangelical whites originally from South Africa, the one thing I don't see (again, I'm in a heavily Hispanic region) is a bunch of Latins cornering the market on lawn care or any other industry where US citizens want to work. I work primarily in demolition and environmental remediation, I'd kill to have some good English speaking US born citizens but the sad fact is they don't want to do this work. I've brought in people and they just flat out don't want to do it. I have a friend that does exclusively demolition and the only US born citizens he can get to work for him are upper 20's to mid 30's black males that were convicted felons. Which I'm fine with, some of these guys are good hard workers just happy someone gave them a chance, but it's not something average Americans with clean records would even consider doing from my experience. I wish they would because we are always looking for people, it is so bad I have guys working in excess of 80 hours a week on some occasions.

 

[Drenalin]

Personally I think talking about our ancestors has relevance, too many people have forgotten their own history and taken on an air of arrogance that "this is MY country, don't let the foreigners in".

So you are all for HIspanics, but you single them out as the immigration problem in this country when there's a large number coming in from China.... sorry but that makes your "all for" statement seem a little disingenuous.

I've never seen Hispanics legal or "illegal" work for less than minimum wage except for maybe the day laborers but those aren't exclusively Hispanics.

The "putting Americans out of jobs", here's the thing, most of these people don't speak English, a majority have a third to fifth grade education level, so you're telling me that educated English speaking Americans can't compete with these people? I've gotten into this with other people on here before, there are pockets of severe unemployment in the US, the base industry in their area has died out and these people refuse to leave their hometowns to try and make it in places where they need the labor. Yet we have a stigma about people that travel great distance to a strange land where they don't speak the language and don't have the education willing to do shit jobs and that's a national crisis? Yet Trump is on the downlow raising the number of visas for temporary labor because the very industries you are talking about complained they wanted more cheap labor.

The simple truth is there is always a lower class, in this country is happens to be a majority immigrants that make up that lower class. In that lays the hypocrisy, we need these people but we want to stigmatize them as undesirable.

A vast majority of these Hispanic people come here get social security cards, have taxes taken out and contribute to the community. A very large number of them or their children join our military, I've known quite a few that don't want their kids to have the life they had so their kids excel in school because they don't want to screw up the opportunity they've been lucky enough to get, and they know they are lucky. I've known numerous people that came here and at some point had an illegal status, they saved up thousands of dollars to hire attorneys to get residency status and a majority of them do the same to get their citizenship. It's amazing how proud and celebratory they are when they get their citizenship.

Sorry about your friend with the lawn care service, but I see so many lawn care services where I live in South Florida and a majority of them are owned by white and black Americans, my own lawn service I use are Evangelical whites originally from South Africa, the one thing I don't see (again, I'm in a heavily Hispanic region) is a bunch of Latins cornering the market on lawn care or any other industry where US citizens want to work. I work primarily in demolition and environmental remediation, I'd kill to have some good English speaking US born citizens but the sad fact is they don't want to do this work. I've brought in people and they just flat out don't want to do it. I have a friend that does exclusively demolition and the only US born citizens he can get to work for him are upper 20's to mid 30's black males that were convicted felons. Which I'm fine with, some of these guys are good hard workers just happy someone gave them a chance, but it's not something average Americans with clean records would even consider doing from my experience. I wish they would because we are always looking for people, it is so bad I have guys working in excess of 80 hours a week on some occasions.

I disagree with almost everything in your post. You’re confused about my position on immigration & you’re misunderstanding a lot of things. I just don’t think it’s worth my time to respond to all of that. So we can agree to disagree