Trump eases Ethanol standards.

[Madmick]

Are you doubling down on the retard? why would Big Oil lobby against their best interests? do you realize that Big Oil would benefit from these companies going under specially since Big Oil is the reason why these credits are expensive in the first place?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ethanol-credits-drive-up-the-cost-of-doing-business

This is that tangential argument you were holding in an echo chamber with yourself. The oil industry has opposed this measure.

You clearly only read the title of your own article and started spewing irony and claiming that liberals were contradicting themselves by "siding" with big oil.

I teased Nutman for ranting against Trump when Obama was doing the same thing (and liberals have largely been part of the ethanol push since its foundation). I haven't even used the word "siding". My article cites two of the largest representative associations of "Big Oil" and their extensive oil lobby petitioning against this measure by Trump (and I've mentioned a third). This is a Big Ag bill. It is not a Big Oil bill.

Congratulations on learning that oil refineries are part of the oil industry. It was a big day for you, I can tell.

 

[lilelvis]

[

IT does directly effect me . I enjoy keeping my yard tight. I have multiple tools that have small engines, that this will effect. Also there are better grasses that can be used for bio fuel, but as I have stated millions of times, this boils down to bribery of corn farmers, to make sure Grassley can be a senator for his 37th year.
This is also like the 4th or 5th post that is a lazy way of debating. @Madmick did the same thing in post #75. Basically stating a leftie or rightie cant have a stand on a particular issue because it is not something their party typically endorses.
I was not aware that if someone was a Republican or Democrat that they have to support every agenda from their perspective parties. Why have a brain, there are issues on both sides that I am for or against. I have been very outspoken of our deficit. I don't think interest payments should be the 2nd highest budget expenditure. I have never in my life voted for a straight ticket for one party or the other.
This us versus them mentality is part of the problem with America politics. If you even once venture from any idea from your party, you are considered a traitor or a sell out or lazy debaters try to use it as a gotcha moment against you on a karate forum. Sorry, I am for people having free thought and not a fan of mob mentality.

Don't put Ethanol in gas.

You can get no-e gas at any boat ramp or gas station near a boat ramp.
I’ve been doing it for years

 

[Rod1]

This is that tangential argument you were holding in an echo chamber with yourself. The oil industry has opposed this measure.

You said Big Oil not the oil industry as a whole.

I teased Nutman for ranting against Trump when Obama was doing the same thing (and liberals have largely been part of the ethanol push since its foundation). I haven't even used the word "siding". My article cites two of the largest representative associations of "Big Oil" and their extensive oil lobby petitioning against this measure by Trump (and I've mentioned a third). This is a Big Ag bill. It is not a Big Oil bill.

Trump is easing restrictions on ethanol during summertime, that what started the thread.

Also these organizations represent the American oil industry expertise, they dont represent the corporate interests of big oil.

Congratulations on learning that oil refineries are part of the oil industry. It was a big day for you, I can tell.

They are part of the oil industry indeed, but their opposition to ethanol has squat to do anything with ethanol as it has to do with government red tape and favoritism towards actual big oil.

My message was clear, corn ethanol isnt competition against oil at all, its not renewable either. You trying to draw a case of government red tape into the whole argument reeks of desperation to find a point anywhere.

In the end Big Oil is perfectly happy with the situation since it fucks over medium sized competition and pushes their profit margins by forcing them to buy credits from them.

 

[Happy Man]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...d-most-small-farms-arent-really-farms-at-all/

B-b-b-bullshit.

TL;DR

Big farms are buying everything already, mid size farms are vanishing, and most "small farms" don't actually produce anything and are only technically classified as farms for funding or tax breaks.

You have no idea what you're talking about I think. Dairy farms are almost non existant as small operations now. Maybe that skews the results, or huge produce farms in Cali, Florida and Hawaii.

However where I come from, the farms are all original homestead farms, going back to the sod houses and they are passed down. Ours is from 1871. Some have sold out to banks, but most are still independently run and those families make bank bc farming is easy now.


I'd say in near the Sandhills of Nebraska around 90% or more are run by local families, albeit some operations are larger than others.


Edit: did you actually read the link you provided?

 

[Madmick]

You said Big Oil not the oil industry as a whole.

Trump is easing restrictions on ethanol during summertime, that what started the thread.

Also these organizations represent the American oil industry expertise, they dont represent the corporate interests of big oil.

They are part of the oil industry indeed, but their opposition to ethanol has squat to do anything with ethanol as it has to do with government red tape and favoritism towards actual big oil.

My message was clear, corn ethanol isnt competition against oil at all, its not renewable either. You trying to draw a case of government red tape into the whole argument reeks of desperation to find a point anywhere.

In the end Big Oil is perfectly happy with the situation since it fucks over medium sized competition and pushes their profit margins by forcing them to buy credits from them.

Big Oil is subsumed by the oil industry. I have cited three of their greatest organizations lobbying against this that lobby on their behalf, too.

It's remarkably simple where they stand on this issue. If you had taken more time to divine rather than to presume, you wouldn't be so desperately wrestling straw dummies.

Or maybe you can produce the history of where Big Oil and these same major fossil fuel lobby bodies have petitioned on behalf of ethanol subsidy. Shouldn't be hard to do, right? It's not like Googling to find an Op-Ed that shares your opinion. It requires retrieving facts.

 

[Rod1]

Big Oil is subsumed by the oil industry. I have cited three of their greatest organizations lobbying against this that lobby on their behalf, too.

The fact remains that Big Oil profits financially because it forces independent refiners to use their services.

Or maybe you can produce the history of where Big Oil and these same major fossil fuel lobby bodies have petitioned on behalf of ethanol subsidy. Shouldn't be hard to do, right? It's not like Googling to find an Op-Ed that shares your opinion. It requires retrieving facts.

Here is the API giving a statement about why they are opposed to Trump on this one.

https://www.api.org/news-policy-and...ive-more-ethanol-into-us-gas-tanks-could-harm

Absolutely nothing to do with Big Oil bottom-line or their profits at all.

They arent representing Big Oil by stating that American machinery isnt engineered to work with high ethanol blends.

Or maybe you can produce the history of where Big Oil and these same major fossil fuel lobby bodies have petitioned on behalf of ethanol subsidy. Shouldn't be hard to do, right? It's not like Googling to find an Op-Ed that shares your opinion. It requires retrieving facts.

Why would they? in the end they win eitherway since they are so diversified in the energy market that they make up their losses anyway since agriculture is heavily reliant on fossil fuels.

Liberals arent being the hypocrites here, there are big enviromental and humanitarian concerns about corn ethanol.

 

[44nutman]

He also made a thread about how he chose a plan that didn't cover maternity and prenatal and blamed Trump for his wife getting knocked up.

You are just mad, because your Gaytors have not beat my Noles, since Bush was President.
Also I was bitching about having to write a 10k check after then initial cost was over 20 grand. I was pointing out flaws in our health care system that I could knock off 50% of the bill by offering to pay up front.
I will say this I have had a few friends go through cancer or their significant others deal with cancer and the left over bills their insurance does not cover is brutal. Sad really, one guy is going to file bankruptcy over his health care.
There is going to be a come to Jesus moment with our 3rd World health care, and our elected career politicians.

 

[My Spot]

You are just mad, because your Gaytors have not beat my Noles, since Bush was President.
Also I was bitching about having to write a 10k check after then initial cost was over 20 grand. I was pointing out flaws in our health care system that I could knock off 50% of the bill by offering to pay up front.
I will say this I have had a few friends go through cancer or their significant others deal with cancer and the left over bills their insurance does not cover is brutal. Sad really, one guy is going to file bankruptcy over his health care.
There is going to be a come to Jesus moment with our 3rd World health care, and our elected career politicians.

Kiss the rings.

 

[Rational Poster]

You have no idea what you're talking about I think. Dairy farms are almost non existant as small operations now. Maybe that skews the results, or huge produce farms in Cali, Florida and Hawaii.

However where I come from, the farms are all original homestead farms, going back to the sod houses and they are passed down. Ours is from 1871. Some have sold out to banks, but most are still independently run and those families make bank bc farming is easy now.


I'd say in near the Sandhills of Nebraska around 90% or more are run by local families, albeit some operations are larger than others.


Edit: did you actually read the link you provided?

Yeah, did you read the part where is shows that 11% of farms own 70% of the farmland and it's they're increasing their share every year?

 

[Madmick]

The fact remains that Big Oil profits financially because it forces independent refiners to use their services.

Trump's bill makes no changes to NFS volumetric requirements, and he seeks to reform the RIN exchange prices. In other words, none of those small or mid-sized refiners will be required to meet a higher standard, and purchase more RINs. No, that comes from pre-existing incentives due to the eased regulations in summer, but incentives at the point-of-sale (the end of the supply chain) are being curbed which are expected to actually result in lower RIN prices:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/h...for-farmers-refiners-and-motorists-2018-10-09

“Gasoline stations are incentivized to sell gasoline with ethanol,” said DeHaan. The more sold, the more RINs they get and “those can be sold to oil refiners that are not blending enough gasoline with ethanol…There is value to selling ethanol.”

Trump’s directive, however, would include a call to reform this credit system. The White House said it will push for more transparency in the system and look to offset market speculators by limiting RINs to obligated parties, The Wall Street Journal reported.

Milne said he expects Trump’s announcement to be bearish for RIN prices, which have been “hammered lower, while offering ethanol producers greater demand opportunities next year.”

So the result is that even the Big Oil companies face a market where the increased sales of RINs they might generate will be offset by a simultaneous depression in their value, and a ~6% reduction in total oil sales across that 3-month period.

Which is why you don't see Chevron, Exxon, BP, and Shell (nor senators from oil-producing states where these companies do business) mobilizing their lobbies against the measure. Again, this is a matter of acute burdens, but the oil industry opposes this measure, and that includes Big Oil. Either produce something that demonstrates their recalcitrance to the measure or stop wasting my time with more erroneous assumptions about what I haven't said, and erroneous conclusions about what I have.

 

[Rod1]

Which is why you don't see Chevron, Exxon, BP, and Shell (nor senators from oil-producing states where these companies do business) mobilizing their lobbies against the measure. Again, this is a matter of acute burdens, but the oil industry opposes this measure, and that includes Big Oil. Either produce something that demonstrates their recalcitrance to the measure or stop wasting my time with more erroneous assumptions about what I haven't said, and erroneous conclusions about what I hav

Gas stations will demand gasoline with ethanol, which is produced by Big Oil, again, its small and medium sized refineries that are fucked.

And no, ethanol sales doesnt means less sales for Big Oil, as i said before between fertilizers, electricity and machinery costs, corn ethanol isnt actually lowering demand for fossil fuels.

 

[Madmick]

Gas stations will demand gasoline with ethanol, which is produced by Big Oil, again, its small and medium sized refineries that are fucked.

And no, ethanol sales doesnt means less sales for Big Oil, as i said before between fertilizers, electricity and machinery costs, corn ethanol isnt actually lowering demand for fossil fuels.

That incentive only exists without a depressed rate on the RINs. Read the article again. There is more to his bill than mere deregulation of the 10-pt cap in the summer months.

 

[lfd0311]

Corn ethanol has been proven not to be renewable.

People tend to talk about wind and solar mainly when talking about renewables.



The IPCC study is talking about crops being grown for fuel.

Ethanol could be renewable, as long as the source is.

It's a biofuel. Biofuels are a renewable energy.