Economy Trump tax cuts 6 months later: it was exactly what critics projected - everyone but the rich suffers

[Trotsky]

So a tax where everybody pays the same % on money they've earned regardless of dollar amount is unfair in your eyes?

That's just silly talk dude

That "earning" is dependent on the maintenance of the economic system (including the retention of market demand, i.e. people having the ability to buy shit), the very existence of the market through its creation by the democratic government (i.e. voters entering into social contracts to obey the rules of the market and not say "I own that instead of you"), the contribution of other's labor, and preconditions that are completely immaterial to the respective earners, such as the fact that one of the guys might have had a great-great-great grandfather who stole and murdered his way into a massive fortune and ownership of real property (which is a fixed pie) and the other guy might be the first or second person in his generation to even be allowed to prospectively earn money.

Having a flat tax system necessarily and quickly leads to concentration of wealth, across generations, due in no way to the effort of the subsequent generations. A tiny section of people are born rich and an increasingly larger portion of the others are born poor(er and poorer) - and then the formers get to assert they earned that money fairly and that everyone else is poor due to an inherently fair system, just because people like you say so.

Your "equal taxation is fair and saying anything else is more fair is silly" is just reduction. Ignorant reduction.

@Jack V Savage Do you have a better/clearer answer for this question re the fundamentally unfair nature of flat taxation over a period of time? I've been down this road with ODB way too many times, and it may just be that I'm not sufficiently articulate enough in explaining this shit.

 

[Scheme]

We need a tax bracket for the .1%. I'll throw out 60% for starters.

60% would just mean far more outsourcing. Tech companies would move to Asia, manufacturing would move to central America/Asia, America would just lose way more than it is worth. Less jobs overall, slower economy, and when an economy starts slowing down and jobs start being lost, it's an avalanche effect (see Venezuela)

Tax brackets are a balancing act. You have to:
A) Maximize revenue
B) Maximize growth
C) Remain competitive in the world market
D) Incentivize investment/entrepreneurs so the economy actually grows and people have jobs

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

Is @Trotsky @Jack V Savage alternate account?

 

[ultramanhyata]

My position is Rock Solid.

Because the individual is the source of all wealth, and governments simply piggyback off of these discoveries of wealth through taxation, it's a moral decision to allow an individual to keep more of what they have earned.

"Because the individual is the source of all wealth..."

OK, Farmer, here's the deal...

You spend the rest of your life alone on a deserted island in the South Pacific and I promise you that I will consider every ounce of value you create by mixing your labor with the land to be absolutely 100 percent your own and I will defend you from any other human being who might attempt to take even the tiniest portion of this hard earned wealth from you.

 

[MicroBrew]

My position is Rock Solid.

Because the individual is the source of all wealth, and governments simply piggyback off of these discoveries of wealth through taxation, it's a moral decision to allow an individual to keep more of what they have earned.

That's just simply bollocks . The government has played an instrumental role in providing the conditions that led to certain individuals being successful and society as a whole.

What about the G.I Bill .
What about government contracts .
Government research labs (Sandia , Los Alomos, Oak Ridge etc..) and the research they do , some of which directly benefits industry .
Infrastructure built by the government that is critical to America being the successful society it is. From Dams to the Highways.
What about farm subsides and government grants for universities doing research into crop science.
What about government funded universities/colleges.
What the internet that you are using.

You conservatives always denying the massive helping hand that government has provided and provides. No body is a self-made person, unless you got stuck on a deserted island and created something

Edit
Lol didn't even read the above post before responding , and see now that he too mentions the island scenario.

 

[HIMBOB]

How about this for an idea: no taxes. Taxation is theft.

On related note, sherdog needs a children's forum.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

That "earning" is dependent on the maintenance of the economic system (including the retention of market demand, i.e. people having the ability to buy shit), the very existence of the market through its creation by the democratic government (i.e. voters entering into social contracts to obey the rules of the market and not say "I own that instead of you"), the contribution of other's labor, and preconditions that are completely immaterial to the respective earners, such as the fact that one of the guys might have had a great-great-great grandfather who stole and murdered his way into a massive fortune and ownership of real property (which is a fixed pie) and the other guy might be the first or second person in his generation to even be allowed to prospectively earn money.

Having a flat tax system necessarily and quickly leads to concentration of wealth, across generations, due in no way to the effort of the subsequent generations. A tiny section of people are born rich and an increasingly larger portion of the others are born poor(er and poorer) - and then the formers get to assert they earned that money fairly and that everyone else is poor due to an inherently fair system, just because people like you say so.

Your "equal taxation is fair and saying anything else is more fair is silly" is just reduction. Ignorant reduction.

@Jack V Savage Do you have a better/clearer answer for this question re the fundamentally unfair nature of flat taxation over a period of time? I've been down this road with ODB way too many times, and it may just be that I'm not sufficiently articulate enough in explaining this shit.

You may have made a case for taxation in general, but I fail to see the case for a progressive tax.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

That's just simply bollocks . The government has played an instrumental role in providing the conditions that led to certain individuals being successful and society as a whole.

I'm guessing farmer is against certain individuals receiving special governmental treatment.

@Farmer Br0wn seems to be down with sinking or swimming as a man and doesn't want/need government interference

 

[xcvbn]

I got $1000 bonus and and an increase of $50 per paycheck (bi-weekly).

They taxed the shit out of the $1000 though. I got like $320 in my bank from that

A pittance to keep the peasants happy.

 

[TheFirstEMP]

This is the best persons like you, @thefirstemporer , and @Throwin Bombs can do.

You're not informed or mature enough to argue the merits, so you cast aspersions.

And, whether or not I am poor, it is clear that unless all three of you are Trump-style old money types who were born into wealth, these policies are against your interests. Because none of you accrued wealth based on your exceptional intelligence.



Honestly, this is what @Jack V Savage, yourself, and I were talking about before. The bottom has dropped out on any expectation of productive discourse. I always knew that people could be dumb or intellectually lazy or stubborn, but I had always thought that most could be persuaded by objective contravention of their interests on the basis of irrefutable facts. I mean....it's beyond description at this point.

You’re a broke ass bitch and self proclaimed socialist that wants to hand out other people’s money. YOU are not an adult nor experienced in damned near anything related to being an adult as per your posts. You have a lot to learn. Quit licking your professors balls and get some real world experience before you come preaching a failed ideology.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

A lot of poor people here thanking billionaires for taking more of the pie.

Good stuff.

 

[xcvbn]

60% would just mean far more outsourcing. Tech companies would move to Asia, manufacturing would move to central America/Asia, America would just lose way more than it is worth. Less jobs overall, slower economy, and when an economy starts slowing down and jobs start being lost, it's an avalanche effect (see Venezuela)

Tax brackets are a balancing act. You have to:
A) Maximize revenue
B) Maximize growth
C) Remain competitive in the world market
D) Incentivize investment/entrepreneurs so the economy actually grows and people have jobs

We've had 90% tax brackets for the 0.1% in the past and never did we experience your doomsday prepper scenario. This isn't the first time I've heard the argument that heavily taxing the 0.1% would cause them to flee America- where exactly did you hear it from?

 

[Trotsky]

You’re a broke ass bitch and self proclaimed socialist that wants to hand out other people’s money. YOU are not an adult nor experienced in damned near anything related to being an adult as per your posts. You have a lot to learn. Quit licking your professors balls and get some real world experience before you come preaching a failed ideology.

Again, you proved my point - you're not able to actually form an argument on the topic, so you reflexively go to insults. This is your second post now where you haven't even tried to defend the tax policy: you just throw insults like a child.

I'm a well-educated adult in my 30s practicing law, but you're free to not believe that and to believe you're much smarter, more experienced, and more successful than I am.
But, even if I wasn't and you were, I would nevertheless be making good faith attempts to discuss an issue, and that's something you're too stupid and too immature to do. I can empathize with the stupidity, but the immaturity and refusal to actually engage on political topics in a politics forum? Just pathetic.

 

[HomerThompson]

You’re a broke ass bitch and self proclaimed socialist that wants to hand out other people’s money. YOU are not an adult nor experienced in damned near anything related to being an adult as per your posts. You have a lot to learn. Quit licking your professors balls and get some real world experience before you come preaching a failed ideology.

https://media.giphy.com/media/:eek::eek::eek:vFsTHxXd96/giphy.gif

 

[GetTheseHands]

Are ya'll actually trying to pretend that the economy is doing bad and that no one has benefited from the tax cuts? Wow...ya'll on living on a different planet. 2018 and 2020 is going to punch you in the mouth like Tyson in his prime. Fucking delusional, loss for words.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

But isnt unemployment at a historical low? No one on here started a thread on that. So we have not arguments about how true or how skewed that is.

 

[TheFirstEMP]

Again, you proved my point - you're not able to actually form an argument on the topic, so you reflexively go to insults. This is your second post now where you haven't even tried to defend the tax policy: you just throw insults like a child.

I'm a well-educated adult in my 30s practicing law, but you're free to not believe that and to believe you're much smarter, more experienced, and more successful than I am.
But, even if I wasn't and you were, I would nevertheless be making good faith attempts to discuss an issue, and that's something you're too stupid and too immature to do. I can empathize with the stupidity, but the immaturity and refusal to actually engage on political topics in a politics forum? Just pathetic.

Ya know, if you don’t want to give off the image of a communist troll, you might want to change your username. For the most part, nobody believes your trolling.

 

[TheFirstEMP]

https://media.giphy.com/media/:eek::eek::eek:vFsTHxXd96/giphy.gif

You post this a lot. This what your wife’s like on a nightly basis?

 

[Trotsky]

But isnt unemployment at a historical low? No one on here started a thread on that. So we have not arguments about how true or how skewed that is.

It is, but job growth/reduction in unemployment has actually slowed fairly substantially over the past two years.

As far as an argument about how suitable/flawed a metric the unemployment rate is? Well, I have opinions on that, but they aren't exceptionally informed and are pretty loosely held.

Are ya'll actually trying to pretend that the economy is doing bad and that no one has benefited from the tax cuts?

Those are straw man arguments.

The economy is doing well, so no we are not pretending otherwise.
We are also not pretending that "no one has benefited from the tax cuts." We are stating factually that only a very small portion of the society has, and that the VAST majority of the rest of society is going to suffer to pay back the cuts.

Wow...ya'll on living on a different planet. 2018 and 2020 is going to punch you in the mouth like Tyson in his prime. Fucking delusional, loss for words.

Yeah, learning is hard. It's better to pretend that you know better than everyone else. I bet you're the type of person who thinks you understand more about medicine than doctors too, on the basis that you finger blasted your cousin when you were in junior high.

Ya know, if you don’t want to give off the image of a communist troll, you might want to change your username. For the most part, nobody believes your trolling.

Keep crying and trying to save face that you aren't able to engage this topic. Every irrelevant and insulting post that you make here just embarrasses you more.

As far as my username? Intelligent people judge on the basis of posts, not names. For that reason, there are plenty of intelligent anti-communists here like Rod and Polish that I get along with exceedingly well.

 

[TheFirstEMP]

It is, but job growth/reduction in unemployment has actually slowed fairly substantially over the past two years.

As far as an argument about how suitable/flawed a metric the unemployment rate is? Well, I have opinions on that, but they aren't exceptionally informed and are pretty loosely held.



Those are straw man arguments.

The economy is doing well, so no we are not pretending otherwise.
We are also not pretending that "no one has benefited from the tax cuts." We are stating factually that only a very small portion of the society has, and that the VAST majority of the rest of society is going to suffer to pay back the cuts.




Yeah, learning is hard. It's better to pretend that you know better than everyone else. I bet you're the type of person who thinks you understand more about medicine than doctors too, on the basis that you finger blasted your cousin when you were in junior high.



Keep crying and trying to save face that you aren't able to engage this topic. Every irrelevant and insulting post that you make here just embarrasses you more.

As far as my username? Intelligent people judge on the basis of posts, not names. For that reason, there are plenty of intelligent anti-communists here like Rod and Polish that I get along with exceedingly well.

You’re very sensitive for a communist revolutionary. Ironic that the GOP are supposedly working for the Russians.