Unleashing The Beast Within

[miaou]

And your way ahead of me
I have a question: when and how are you planning to incorporate deadlifts into your programme?

My original plan was to put more focus on power production during the spring and start incorporating the DL into my programming around June, once I switch my focus back to max strength for the second part of the year (if you read my reply to Tosa this will make more sense).

I like deadlifting and would love to be doing it (up to now I only avoided it due to health) but, as a matter of fact, I'm pretty content with the choice of exercises for the lower body. I'm squatting, I'm doing GMs as my main posterior chain assistance lift, and I'm doing power cleans/snatches as my pulls off the ground and I'm experiencing gains on all of them (I also frequently do BB shrugs as a way to do some work for my grip). My numbers are still very light on the power cleans/snatches, but the plan is to increase the weights as my technique gets more solid. Plus, I probably lack lower-body explosiveness more than I lack lower-body strength at this point, so it makes sense to focus on the cleans instead of the DLs.

In view of the DL/overhead comp, and in view of the fact that my knees are now healthier than they've been in many years, and if my program allows (I still don't have a good idea how stressful the jump courses are going to be) I'm now thinking I may start incorporating some speed DLs and some infrequent high-intensity work before the summer.

What's the reason for dropping bodyweight?

It'll be good to see you deadlifting seriously.

I'll be doing a classical jumps (long, triple and high jump, plus a slight bit of pole vaulting) course this spring and I want to make the most of it.

If I were to break them down, these are the reasons:

a) I have some terrible time with bicep tears earlier this year when I was trying to work on sprinting and hurdling. I attributed those to my hamstrings becoming unaccustomed to the explosive eccentric contractions required in these types of activities from having mobility limitations for years. The fact that, in the meantime, my legs got bigger (=heavier) and stronger in the gym lifts probably significantly increased the explosive load on the hamstrings and thus actually increased the risk of injury for me right now. I'll have to do extensive gradual re-adaptation in order to be able to do these types of activities at 100% intensity without injuring shit (that's why running a 100m sprint at 100% without tearing the hammies is an actual "goal for 2013" for me), and being lighter will probably help in this.

b) while way fucking better, my knees and shin bone edemas are not quite bulletproof (I still get some pain/aggravation, it's just not to the point were it significantly inhibits my current training), and being lighter will help in getting them to adapt to the extra stress of the classical jumps.

c) being lighter but with greater relative strength (which is my goal), even if my absolute strength suffers, will be conducive to better performance in the jumps.

How are you programming your 100m training or are you just running?
11.5 is a great goal!

I am not! My main goal is simply to be able to go full intensity without injuring shit!

My plan is to simply to start doing more sprints (anywhere from 5 to 100 meters), aim to stay well within what I will perceive to be "safe intensity" for my hamstrings, and gradually increase the volume/frequency and, in the end, intensity of my sprint training.

Now, if I succeed in being able to run at full intensity, then I'll think about actual sprinting programming. 11.5 would be awesome but, quite frankly, if by the end of 2013 I can run 100m bellow 12 secs without being terrified for my safety I'll be ecstatic.

 

[Tosa]

Well, I can't really fault your reasoning, even if it goes against my gut feeling. Have you considered getting fatter instead?

 

[Poseylifts]

Generally speaking, without knowing the exact situation with your shoulder, the first option with shoulder pain treatment is to treat it according to the symptoms. If your have full pain-free ROM, then taking more time completely off is not really going to help and might even be counterproductive.

If you want to play it conservatively, yes, you could do the entire rehab process outlined in jaunty's log (spend a couple of weeks working on rotator cuff and scapular stabilization work, starting light and gradually increasing the resistance/overall work volume, before you reintroduce the main lifts). Or, if your original injury wasn't that serious, you could simply start with the main lifts right away (but avoiding a certain exercise or intensity level if it seems to re-aggravate your injury) and do extra rotator cuff and shoulder stabilization work as part of your assistance.

Another thing not stressed in my directions to jaunty was that proper lifting form and general posture, motor patterns and shoulder ROM are of paramount importance for shoulder health. Jaunty had an "unlucky moment" type of injury and his posture and shoulder ROM were good to begin with so he didn't need to focus on them during his rehab. If these are things you might be lagging in, you should look to address them.

Thanks for the response. A little more about the injury; I believe it stemmed from too much pressing volume and just poor form in general specifically flat bench. It would nag me, then go away, then come back, then go away, etc. and I trained through it for about 4 months. Now it's been at least 2-3 months since I've done any serious pressing and even LB squatting aggravates it.

I want to play it safe just because my #1 goal right now is to get back into training pain-free and then just stay away from things that stress my shoulders too much (LB squats and flat bench are the big 2). I also believe my shoulders are just weak in general and need to be strengthened so I'd like to #1 strengthen the rotator cuff muscles and #2 start back to training, avoiding LB squats, and training OHP in a 5x5 linear fashion.

I believe posture is an issue, not a huge one, but something I struggle with so I will have to pay more attention to that. Shoulder ROM is pretty decent but could always be better so I'll work on that as part of the rehab process as well.

 

[belph]

Stop being such a pussy. Weight loss may affect your squatting ability, I don't want a hollow victory.

 

[Tosa]

Stop being such a pussy. Weight loss may affect your squatting ability, I don't want a hollow victory.

Well if I were to make an argument for Miaou not losing weight, it'd be that a catabolic environment, especially for someone who is so lean, could have negative effects on the structural adaptations. Meaning the net improvement could be too small to make losing weight worthwhile.

Just to play devil's advocate, for balphious.

 

[miaou]

Thanks for the response. A little more about the injury; I believe it stemmed from too much pressing volume and just poor form in general specifically flat bench. It would nag me, then go away, then come back, then go away, etc. and I trained through it for about 4 months. Now it's been at least 2-3 months since I've done any serious pressing and even LB squatting aggravates it.

I want to play it safe just because my #1 goal right now is to get back into training pain-free and then just stay away from things that stress my shoulders too much (LB squats and flat bench are the big 2). I also believe my shoulders are just weak in general and need to be strengthened so I'd like to #1 strengthen the rotator cuff muscles and #2 start back to training, avoiding LB squats, and training OHP in a 5x5 linear fashion.

I believe posture is an issue, not a huge one, but something I struggle with so I will have to pay more attention to that. Shoulder ROM is pretty decent but could always be better so I'll work on that as part of the rehab process as well.

That sounds like an overuse injury, a different animal than jaunty's injury, which was acute. Not commenting on the specifics of your injury, since I can't really make a diagnosis online (although the typical issues with the symptoms/injury mechanism you described have to do with tendonitis on the bicep and or supraspinatus tendons), but in overuse injuries the culprit is usually either bad programming (doing too much too soon and now allowing enough time for the connective tissues to adapt to the increased intensity/work volume) or bad motor patterns, or both (bad motor patterns will make you that much more sensitive to bad programming). Bad motor patterns basically means improper lifting form, which could be affected or even a direct result of improper ROM, improper activation of certain muscles and strength and/or muscle length imbalances (usual suspects with the shoulder are shortened pec major/minor and inhibited/weak scap stabilizators, plus some possible RC imbalances) and bad posture, and could also be that you just haven't "understood" how to lift properly.

If you want to be conservative, start with rehab exercises like the ones mentioned in jaunty's log, and in the meantime do some reading on proper posture (there are a couple of links in the S&P FAQ to get you started) and do your best to work on/improve your form (get yourself a competent strength coach and/or read SS and/or watch instructional videos and/or post form checks).

Btw, overuse injuries, especially if they've been developing for a while, can be a bitch to fully recover from and it may take some patience and some trial and error on your part. Good luck, man.

 

[miaou]

Well, I can't really fault your reasoning, even if it goes against my gut feeling. Have you considered getting fatter instead?

Lol!

Good one.

Stop being such a pussy. Weight loss may affect your squatting ability, I don't want a hollow victory.

Worry not, you shall.

I'll switch my focus to power/explosiveness after I kick your ass to dem 190 kg.

Well if I were to make an argument for Miaou not losing weight, it'd be that a catabolic environment, especially for someone who is so lean, could have negative effects on the structural adaptations. Meaning the net improvement could be too small to make losing weight worthwhile.

Just to play devil's advocate, for balphious.

This is the first time I ever hear that doing a planned/gradual drop in BW while still training could be detrimental on the structural adaptations. I can't see why that would happen. As long as you are still training and your connective tissue is still receiving stress, it makes sense it would adapt to keep up with the current stresses it's put under. It's not like as if, if you are in caloric deficiency, all of your tissues automatically start breaking down; it's more on a need to keep basis, based on your current activity.

Having said that, this is not something I recall ever happening to read about, one way or another. Do you have any sources on that?

 

[Tosa]

I did say I was just playing devils advocate. I'll try and find some sources when I get home, but I doubt I'll find anything that fits your circumstances one way or another.

But tendons, bones and especially muscle undergo a constant cycle of damage and repair. So at some point they will be susceptible to a caloric deficit. Plus the weightloss will have to come from somewhere, and you don't have much fat to lose.

 

[kotriz]

I did say I was just playing devils advocate. I'll try and find some sources when I get home, but I doubt I'll find anything that fits your circumstances one way or another.

But tendons, bones and especially muscle undergo a constant cycle of damage and repair. So at some point they will be susceptible to a caloric deficit. Plus the weightloss will have to come from somewhere, and you don't have much fat to lose.

your way of thinking amazes me!


not in a good way lol

 

[Chernabog]

Good luck with your goals, man. Ill be following

Spoiler

This was the single greatest spoiler I opened.

Anyways, awesome log dude. Hope your gains are what you want.

 

[Tosa]

your way of thinking amazes me!


not in a good way lol

Are you unfamiliar with the expression "playing devil's advocate"?

 

[kotriz]

Are you unfamiliar with the expression "playing devil's advocate"?

im familiar with your last post regarding passing out

 

[Poseylifts]

Thanks again, I'll work on all of the above. If I were to have bicep tendinitis as well what would be the protocol for rehabbing that?

 

[NurseKnuckles]

My original plan was to put more focus on power production during the spring and start incorporating the DL into my programming around June, once I switch my focus back to max strength for the second part of the year (if you read my reply to Tosa this will make more sense).

I like deadlifting and would love to be doing it (up to now I only avoided it due to health) but, as a matter of fact, I'm pretty content with the choice of exercises for the lower body. I'm squatting, I'm doing GMs as my main posterior chain assistance lift, and I'm doing power cleans/snatches as my pulls off the ground and I'm experiencing gains on all of them (I also frequently do BB shrugs as a way to do some work for my grip). My numbers are still very light on the power cleans/snatches, but the plan is to increase the weights as my technique gets more solid. Plus, I probably lack lower-body explosiveness more than I lack lower-body strength at this point, so it makes sense to focus on the cleans instead of the DLs.

In view of the DL/overhead comp, and in view of the fact that my knees are now healthier than they've been in many years, and if my program allows (I still don't have a good idea how stressful the jump courses are going to be) I'm now thinking I may start incorporating some speed DLs and some infrequent high-intensity work before the summer.



I'll be doing a classical jumps (long, triple and high jump, plus a slight bit of pole vaulting) course this spring and I want to make the most of it.

If I were to break them down, these are the reasons:

a) I have some terrible time with bicep tears earlier this year when I was trying to work on sprinting and hurdling. I attributed those to my hamstrings becoming unaccustomed to the explosive eccentric contractions required in these types of activities from having mobility limitations for years. The fact that, in the meantime, my legs got bigger (=heavier) and stronger in the gym lifts probably significantly increased the explosive load on the hamstrings and thus actually increased the risk of injury for me right now. I'll have to do extensive gradual re-adaptation in order to be able to do these types of activities at 100% intensity without injuring shit (that's why running a 100m sprint at 100% without tearing the hammies is an actual "goal for 2013" for me), and being lighter will probably help in this.

b) while way fucking better, my knees and shin bone edemas are not quite bulletproof (I still get some pain/aggravation, it's just not to the point were it significantly inhibits my current training), and being lighter will help in getting them to adapt to the extra stress of the classical jumps.

c) being lighter but with greater relative strength (which is my goal), even if my absolute strength suffers, will be conducive to better performance in the jumps.



I am not! My main goal is simply to be able to go full intensity without injuring shit!

My plan is to simply to start doing more sprints (anywhere from 5 to 100 meters), aim to stay well within what I will perceive to be "safe intensity" for my hamstrings, and gradually increase the volume/frequency and, in the end, intensity of my sprint training.

Now, if I succeed in being able to run at full intensity, then I'll think about actual sprinting programming. 11.5 would be awesome but, quite frankly, if by the end of 2013 I can run 100m bellow 12 secs without being terrified for my safety I'll be ecstatic.

Well Miaou, I love your goals. Post some vids for technique and stuff. I am very interested in watching your progress. You have given me some inspiration and motivation to get back on the track too.

Best of luck!

 

[miaou]

Thanks again, I'll work on all of the above. If I were to have bicep tendinitis as well what would be the protocol for rehabbing that?

It's pretty much the same exact directions and same things you need to work on. It's just that an inflamed bicep tendon may be more sensitive to different things compared to, say, an inflamed supraspinatus tendon. For instance, with supraspinatus tendonitis you might have to be more conservative with your overhead pressing, as opposed to bicipital tendonitis where you might have to be more conservative with benching.

Well Miaou, I love your goals. Post some vids for technique and stuff. I am very interested in watching your progress. You have given me some inspiration and motivation to get back on the track too.

Best of luck!

Thanks, man.

You used to be a high jumper, no?

Did you start working on the discus yet?

 

[miaou]

Sprints
5m x 2
7.5m x 2
10m x 4

Seated Box Jumps (37" box)
BW x 3 x 3

Power Snatches
50 x 2 x 2
55 x 2 x 4

DE Box Squats (13" box, w/ supermini bands)
67.5 x 3 x 9

SOHP
52.5 x 6 x 4

Chin-ups
BW x 10 x 4

DB Lateral Raises
12.5 x 10 x 3

Hammer Curls
15/17.5/17.5 x 10

Band Pullaparts
12 x 3


Form on the snatches was terrible. In most of them, the bar ended up forward. Was pretty self-conscious about the lower-back, which is still not 100%.

Speed on the DE box squats was ok~ish. There was an impressively big speed difference between box squats with 60kg on the bar (which was my last warmup set) and 67.5kg (which were my worksets). I'm thinking I'll aim to do these once a week and load them in three-wave cycles (so 60-67.5-75 for the first cycle, 62.5-70-77.5 for the second cycle and so on), with the goal being that the speed of each wave remains constant in each cycle (so, hopefully, 3 cycles down the road 67.5 has the same speed I had with 60 last week). Which makes me think that "hey, if I'm that serious about it, maybe I should start filming these in order to have some objective speed reference". But then I would also need to get myself a camera and find a way to edit/examine the vids. Hmm...

BW was 92.1 yesterday morning, and was 93.4 this morning. Some fairly significant oscillation there.

 

[NurseKnuckles]

Thanks, man.

You used to be a high jumper, no?

Did you start working on the discus yet?

Yeah i did long, triple and high. But made the team for HJ, in Uni.

My brother was supposed to bring a discus to my place over the holidays but he said he couldn't get his hands on one. So no I haven't done any work; in fact I haven't done anything over the holidays. :-(

If I could suggest an app for your phone; its called Coaches Eye. Great for jumps. You can stop, slow down, reverse and speed up the video using our thumb. Its a great tool. My bro uses it all the time with his athletes

I was supposed to lift a few times but the gym had retarded hours and snow closings, etc... Someone doesn't want me lifting over the holidays it seems...

 

[miaou]

^ Lol @ "an app for your phone" :icon_chee (my current phone is shitty beyond belief)

That app sounds pretty handy not only for the jumps, but also for throws, oly stuff, etc. I'll keep it in mind if I ever happen across a second hand iphone or something.


That sucks with the gym hours. At this specific point in my life it would suck major @@ if I had no gym access for the entire holiday season. No options of visiting other gyms?

 

[Poseylifts]

Thanks again I appreciate the help. I did my first rehab workout a couple days ago and my rotator cuff still has DOMS, but not the sharp pain feeling I had before, so that must be a good sign.

 

[miaou]

Kick Boxing
long dynamic warmup, including a few sprints, rolls, handstands, etc.
a bunch of shadowfighting
a bunch of rounds with the heavy bag
some static stretching

Ankle Dorsiflexions/Eversions/Eversions
MB x 15 x 3


Reality check day. My shadowboxing hasn't been that horrible the few times that I've done it over the last few months, despite the long lay-off, so I half-expected to not have major issues with the heavy bag. That was not the case. Shadowfighting was ok~ish, but once I had to apply some actual power to my punches and figure out the distance and positioning and timing and all with the heavy bag, everything just went to shit.

On the up side, this is the first time I do heavy bag work in almost 4 years (last time I trained kick-boxing was January 2009). I did ~8+ 2-3min rounds with it (the work-rate was fairly low). Tried to work some basic stuff and get my technique to not suck giant @@ when doing them (which didn't happen, but I guess I've got to start somewhere). The speed difference, compared to my "old, better days", was particularly obvious; today felt like I was punching in slow motion. If I manage to fit some heavy-bag work into my schedule, I'm sure it will gradually get less horrible.

Upon returning home, I feel exhausted, like as if all the lifeforce has been sucked out of my body.


BW this morning = 93.0 kg.