Crime Use it in a Sentence (special counsel thread v. 25)

[Quipling]

Previous Thread

Current big news:

• OSC has filed their sentencing memo in Flynn's case. He has cooperated in three different criminal investigations.
• OSC has filed their sentencing memo in Cohen's case. He has cooperated to a limited extent. They suggest approximately 4 years in prison. Cohen admitted to multiple campaign finance violations, lying to Congress, and revealed a trump-russia contact from 2015. He also provided evidence that Trump directed him to commit the campaign finance violations.
  
• OSC has filed their sentencing memo in Manafort's case. He apparently lies a lot and continued to do so throughout his purported cooperation.

Mod note from previous thread: Please post in here with regards to the subject at hand. Any general chat can go in the WR Lounge thread.

Just to be clear, going forward, these type of posts also count of derailing:
1. Talking about how the thread is derailed/ how mods should handle a situation (report and continue on topic discussions)
2. Joking about posters who are reply banned from the thread
3. Posts with only flaming that do not have any other information about the topic
4. A reply to any of the above

Stop doing these. This isn't some game of getting each other reply bans and infractions. Just stay on topic, report when needed. We have the WR OT for posts like the ones above but they have no place in a normal thread.

Major events so far:

• Manafort, Trump's campaign manager and transition committee member has been indicted arising from misconduct reaching into 2017 related to payments received through 2014 from the pro-russia faction of Ukraine's pre-war government. Manafort has pleaded guilty and is expected to cooperate with federal prosecutors.
• Michael Cohen, Trump's attorney, has pleaded guilty to campaign finance violations, which he claims to have committed at Trump's direction to influence the election. Cohen is expected to cooperate with federal prosecutors.
• Allen Weisselberg, the Trump Org. CFO, has agreed to immunity in exchange for cooperating with federal prosecutors
• Rick Gates has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI and conspiring (with Manafort) to commiting tax fraud, failing to register as a foreign agent, and lying to the FBI
• George Papadopolous pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators in 2017 about activities occuring 2016-17. Admits to meeting with various Russian officials regarding setting up meetings and "dirt" on Hillary while acting on behalf of the Trump campaign, something he previously denied. Papadopoulos is now accusing Mifsud of being a deep state plant on Twitter.
• Mike Flynn, Trump's National Security Advisor, has also pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI with respect to several meetings that he had with the Russian ambassador. Flynn was allegedly involved in other business involving Turkey, but has not yet been charged with respect to that behavior.
• 13 Russian indictment for activity starting in 2014 and continuing through 2017. A US citizen pleaded guilty for agreeing to help them. There is also a separate 12 count indictment targeting GRU officers
• An attorney linked to Manafort, Gates, and a Russian oligarch has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI
• Yohai, Manafort's former son-in-law has agreed to cooperate with the Justice Department
• Daniels's lawsuit has somehow, insanely, gotten linked up to the Mueller investigation thanks to alleged wrongdoing and influence-peddling by Michael Cohen. Who has pleaded guilty and offered to fully cooperate.
• Twelve Russian intelligence officers have been indicted for conspiracy against the United States and aggravated identity theft
• Bruce Ohr, of dossier fame, has been working to obtain information from Russian oligarchs since 2014.
• Documents relating to Manafort's guilty plea implicate Tony Podesta. Tony Podesta is the brother of Clinton's campaign advisor, John Podesta. His former firm, which is now cooperating with the probe, worked for Manafort in Ukraine.

 

[MikeMcMann]

I'll move this here then.

The case for Collusion


Definition of collusion

: secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose


Who are the actors?

Trump/Trump Associates/Trump Campaign (Trump)

Russia/Putin/Oligarchs (Russians)

VTB Russia State Bank (VTB)


What does Trump gain or want :

- To further his private business interests, in particular but not solely, The Trump Moscow Hotel.

- To become the POTUS, sabotage Hilary’s campaign

Trump wants amongst other things Moscow show piece hotel and needs financing and has a history with shady Russian backers and also deep ties to MOB money. And also HERE.

Trump admits he was pursuing his private interests. Thought he might not win the election (admits that) and there is nothing wrong with pursuing private interests, true. BUT you must announce that to the voting public. That you are a business man pursuing the POTUS and also these private interests and if you win the POTUS you will then put aside the private interests.

Instead Trump lied all through the campaign saying he had no dealings in Russia or business in Russia a position he later refutes himself after Cohen’s testimony was released.


What did Russia and Putin and Associates want :

- Cancellation of Magnitsky Act

- Lifting of sanctions

- Weakening, destabilization of the USA and of Nato and western alliances

- Re-admittance of Russia into the G8


So how might the Russians offer “synergies” with the Trump Campaign so they both get what they want?

Russia : Quid Pro Quo : Tell Trump that his much desired Trump Moscow hotel has the financing ready but this money will come from Investors thru State Sanctioned Russian bank VTB, and as long as the sanctions are in place them obviously the money cannot be forwarded. A strong incentive for Trump to want to remove the sanctions and get the money.

Russia: Quid Pro Quo : : Trump, you asked for the email dirt on Hilary. You got it as the SAME DAY Trump asks them to hack, Russia does indeed go in and try to hack.

Trump : Quid Pro Quo : Tries to ensure cancellation of Magnitsky act and new sanctions on Russia, but Congress, with bipartisan support overwhelmingly blocks him with a Veto proof 419 votes in favour and only 3 against.

Trump : Quid Pro Quo : Unlike any prior President after assuming the office he does not first meet with key considered traditional Allies and immediately starts to diminish and destabilize Allies and Nato and other alliances and pacts, while talking positive about Russia and Saudi and other historically troubled relationships.


What does Russia hold over Trump:

- Lies on the campaign trail and after that he had no dealings with Russia when they knew he did and that such a lie could destroy his presidency and potentially result in jail time for him

- Flynn on behalf of Trump campaign instructing Russia to ignore or not react to Obama gov’t sanctions as Trump would soon be in and they would cancel them thus breaking the Logan Act. A law that is tough to use but could be used more easily for BlackMail.



Extras


Trump Moscow tower to potentially receive Hundreds of Millions of dollars from Russians to Trump Org directly Mueller campaign claims direct evidence for.

Trump properties for decades or more may have been acting as a money laundering scheme for Russian Oligarchs, and others and all sorts of shady money, who would over pay for Suites and then get a quid pro quo cash payment returning them the surplus. This is one of the key things being pursued by the New York State Attorney and the IRS.

Trump Tower meeting between Russian Lawyer and Nationals

(I'll update this as new info is provided or comes out)

 

[Strychnine]

 

[tkotom]

I'll take bets from anyone. Trump gets away "SCOTT" free because he actually did not collude with Russia.

 

[44nutman]

So Trumps accountant and lawyer flipped. His campaign manager will die in jail and the Trump Lickspittles are still bringing up Shillary.
Fucking LOL.

 

[MikeMcMann]

I'll take bets from anyone. Trump gets away "SCOTT" free because he actually did not collude with Russia.

I'll take that bet.

Him, Don Jr and a few other will be paying a price.

 

[Trotsky]

I'll take bets from anyone. Trump gets away "SCOTT" free because he actually did not collude with Russia.

Believing he doesn't get charged with any crimes is reasonable.

Thinking he doesn't on the basis that "he actually did not collude with Russia" takes a certain level of retardation and complete disregard for the facts and/or reality in general.

 

[Fawlty]

I don't usually spam reposts of mine but I wanted to get this in on the front page:




I was walking in the forest this morning, and I came across a unicorn. This is what the unicorn said:

"I'm a Trump supporter, and I think he has the right vision for a populist America, and most of his policy positions are on point. However, his many ties to Russian oligarchs, the many lies he has told, the many criminals he has surrounded himself with, and the many shady financial and political irregularities that have come to light before and during his presidency give me serious pause. I want a full investigation into this, leaving no stone unturned, and I want the investigation to have wide powers and authority because we must protect our democracy. We must not rush this process. And Hillary Clinton is no longer relevant."

Hmph, unicorns, amirite guys

 

[hillelslovak87]

I don't usually spam reposts of mine but I wanted to get this in on the front page:




I was walking in the forest this morning, and I came across a unicorn. This is what the unicorn said:

"I'm a Trump supporter, and I think he has the right vision for a populist America, and most of his policy positions are on point. However, his many ties to Russian oligarchs, the many lies he has told, the many criminals he has surrounded himself with, and the many shady financial and political irregularities that have come to light before and during his presidency give me serious pause. I want a full investigation into this, leaving no stone unturned, and I want the investigation to have wide powers and authority because we must protect our democracy. We must not rush this process. And Hillary Clinton is no longer relevant."

Hmph, unicorns, amirite guys

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP!!!!

 

[nixkid]

I'll take bets from anyone. Trump gets away "SCOTT" free because he actually did not collude with Russia.

You do realize that Trump getting away with it and Trump being innocent are not mutually exclusive. There are unresolved constitutional questions surrounding whether or not a sitting President can be indicted and impeachment is largely political. For instance, the Democrats in the House might decide not to proceed with impeachment proceedings if they determine that making the 2020 Presidential election about whether or not Trump should be impeached is not advantageous to them. That wouldn't mean that Trump is necessarily innocent, it means that the Democrats are risk adverse. He might be impeached but not removed because the 2/3rds vote in the Senate is a high bar and there might be just enough Senators in small flyover states, where removing Trump would be politically unpopular no matter what the facts are, to save him.

Ultimately, I think its more likely that he will be impeached than that he won't be. I'm not yet confident that enough Republican Senators will turn on him to actually remove him from office. And they certainly won't do so before the 2020 election unless his poll numbers tank (and even then they might hope for a primary challenger to take care of the problem for them).

 

[vengeful]

What is OSC?

 

[hillelslovak87]

What is OSC?

Office of Special Counsel.

 

[DEN]

It's done. I understand that prior to Friday sycophants could hide behind "nothing has been proven in court" but now that there is definitive proof of collusion and criminality why are we even entertaining arguments to the contrary? Collusion was proven beyond a reasonable doubt when juniors emails about the trump tower meeting came to light. Why pretend there's an argument otherwise. It's sheer insanity.

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

If anyone isn't listening to Michael Isikoff's "Skullduggery" podcast these days, I highly recommend it. New one out today that I have not gotten to yet.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

I'll take bets from anyone. Trump gets away "SCOTT" free because he actually did not collude with Russia.

I was betting my account for sig/av a year ago and none of these clowns stepped up. Homer finally did for a measly sig bet but even he committed suicide in fear.

Dont hold your breath

 

[DEN]

I was betting my account for sig/av a year ago and none of these clowns stepped up. Homer finally did for a measly sig bet but even he committed suicide in fear.

Dont hold your breath

Trump will be impeached. Now that he has been proven to have committed crimes they basically have to.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Trump will be impeached. Now that he has been proven to have committed crimes they basically have to.

Even if the House was able and willing to impeach, there's no way on God's green Earth that the Senate would remove him from office. It's not happening.
But that doesn't mean he is getting off "scott free", as some here seem to think. Damage to his administration, credibility, effectiveness at proposing legislation, and criminal convictions for his subordinates all constitute varying degrees of price.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Trump will be impeached. Now that he has been proven to have committed crimes they basically have to.

Im sure you've already posted it but this thread and variants is fucking ginormous. What crimes has he been proven to have committed? I'm only aware of campaign finance violations which are pretty weak sauce and are definitely not gonna go anywhere with impeachment

Can you refer to a post if you dont wanna be bothered to post them again?

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

What is OSC?

Office of the Special Counsel

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Even if the House was able and willing to impeach, there's no way on God's green Earth that the Senate would remove him from office. It's not happening.
But that doesn't mean he is getting off "scott free", as some here seem to think. Damage to his administration, credibility, effectiveness at proposing legislation, and criminal convictions for his subordinates all constitute varying degrees of price.

To me the worst thing that could happen to Donny Moscow already has:
History will remember him as a corrupt, compromised president whose administration was a trainwreck.