Venezuela, The Starving Socialist Dystopia (Part 1)

No, it wouldnt because all the industry that was not oil was still existing. Chavez literally used billions to eminent domain industries and ran them into the ground, he didnt just created government industries, he literally bought thousands of factories and then ran them into the ground. Coupled with strict currency control also drove many other industries into the ground.

The problem with Venezuela is not that they dont have money, the problem with Venezuela is that they dont have an industry, they literally cant make anything now.

You keep saying tax breaks for the rich and other shit, well THAT ALREADY HAPPENED, Just read about Venezuela during the 80s oil glut, it was incredibly hard, but they still had a functioning economy.

But in the 70s, instead of buying industries and destroying others, the populists used that money to steal and to create white elephant projects. Chavez goal was turning Venezuela into Cuba and he succeeded. Venezuela crisis is paramount to the 90s crisis of Cuba.
They never had much of any kind of industry oil has always been 95-90% of their exports and over half goverment gdp , last oil bust was also a nightmare as well
The chavistas have made mistakes with price controls and insane labour laws making a disaster worse
But if this had been the right wing parasites theyd have never bothered impacting extreme poverty long term with the oil boom and instead opened the tax break floodgates....oil prices still would have fallen and then when the same shitstorm comes instead of insanely far left polices (while bad can be retracted ) making things worse theyd be following the retarded usual ultra right imf policies of sacking millions,privitisation on the cheap (ie theft) cuttting social programs and essential spending , taxes that hurt the poor .


Its the same old problem with south america they can never find the middle ground
 
Venezuela a democratic socialist government --- why not to vote for bernie
 
They never had much of any kind of industry oil has always been 95-90% of their exports and over half goverment gdp , last oil bust was also a nightmare as well
The chavistas have made mistakes with price controls and insane labour laws making a disaster worse
But if this had been the right wing parasites theyd have never bothered impacting extreme poverty long term with the oil boom and instead opened the tax break floodgates....oil prices still would have fallen and then when the same shitstorm comes instead of insanely far left polices (while bad can be retracted ) making things worse theyd be following the retarded usual ultra right imf policies of sacking millions,privitisation on the cheap (ie theft) cuttting social programs and essential spending , taxes that hurt the poor .


Its the same old problem with south america they can never find the middle ground

The last oil bust, they didnt had this massive debt with China and they still had plenty of local industry capable of servicing the basic needs of the Venezuelan people.

See thats the issue, while oil dropping would had caused a recession, its pretty different to be in a recession than to be on North Koreans levels of scarcity.
 
Feel really bad for this people. I know a few guys out there that are having a really difficult moments right now.
 
They never had much of any kind of industry oil has always been 95-90% of their exports and over half goverment gdp

Before Chavez rose to power and decimated Venezuela's industries, there were over 12,000 corporations operating full-time in sectors other than oil (manufacturing, agriculture, mining, etc).

Now there are less than 3,000 companies in all of Venezuela, many are hollow shells of their former self after being expropriated and destroyed by the state, each barely operates a few work days each month, not because of the low oil price or the evil plots of Maduro's "foreign enemies", but simply because there are no raw materials to produce anything, thanks to the draconian rules imposed on the market.
 
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They never had much of any kind of industry oil has always been 95-90% of their exports and over half goverment gdp

There is a joke I heard once that the only two manufactured industrial products that Venezuela exports are telenovelas and beauty pageant contestants.*

The sad part is that it is half true.




*
Venezuelan telenovelas are notorious for their cookie cutter nature, they are all the same like they came out of an assembly line and are unimaginative as fuck.

And Venezuelan beauty queens have massive amounts of plastic surgery and also tend to end up looking like they all went to the same surgeon.
 
Before Chavez rose to power and decimated Venezuela's industries, there were over 12,000 corporations operating full-time in sectors other than oil (manufacturing, agriculture, mining, etc).

Now there are less than 3,000 companies in all of Venezuela, many are hollow shells of their former self after being expropriated and destroyed by the state, each barely operates a few work days each month, not because of the low oil price or the evil plots of Maduro's "foreign enemies", but simply because there are no raw materials to produce anything, thanks to the draconian rules imposed on the market.
Hey i already said some of their policies like the insane labour laws (u virtualy cant sack anyone ever) and esp controls had made the crisis worse but oil has always been over 90% of their exports.....its crazy neither side has tried to fix that.
 
The last oil bust, they didnt had this massive debt with China and they still had plenty of local industry capable of servicing the basic needs of the Venezuelan people.

See thats the issue, while oil dropping would had caused a recession, its pretty different to be in a recession than to be on North Koreans levels of scarcity.
It still would have caused a recession yes but none of the long term dents into extreme poverty would have occured ( iv read that while povery is increasing rapidly fromm all time low extreme poverty according to world bank figures is somehow Still slightly falling in this mess!!)
I agree the labour laws and controls have made it worse than it would have been .....but had the other parasites been in charge right now theyd be in talks with the imf for the same old imf uber right policies that fuck a country worse (esp long term) and are basicaly a firesale for the global rich ie huge austerity, privatize everything of value and sell for fraction of true worth ,slash social spending and pushbthe military onto streets to deal with riots and deregulate every protection of worth.
 
Hey i already said some of their policies like the insane labour laws (u virtualy cant sack anyone ever) and esp controls had made the crisis worse but oil has always been over 90% of their exports.....its crazy neither side has tried to fix that.

Dude, export is NOT the reason why Venezuela has officially ran out of everything! They ran out of everything because they're no longer capable of manufacturing anything!

The point that Rod1 and I are making involves around the other two parts of an economy: manufacturing and imports, which seems to be alien concepts to you.

Let me break it down to three basic steps:

1) Once upon a time, Venezuela were able to manufacture many of their essential needs. They exported what they have in excess, produce essential items that they need with their domestic industries, and import the high-end stuffs that they can't make themselves.

2)
Chavez nationalized and destroyed all those manufacturing industries with draconian price caps that costs businesses much more to produce a product than they can make selling it. Manufacturing plants closed one after another, and Venezuela became reliant on imports to get EVERYTHING they need, using the windfall from oil sale, including all the basic essential items they were once able to make for themselves, like say, food and toilet papers. Why going through the effort of making it when you have the money to import it, right?

Consider this: Venezuela's agriculture industry was a net exporter of foodstuff before the oil boom. Now over two-thirds of Venezuela's food supplies today are imported from other countries, such as Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Ecuador, Bolivia, Colombia, and the American Imperialists that Chavez and Maduro hates so much. In fact, about half of that imported food supply actually came from the United States. The few farms still functional in Venezuela are operating with ancient agricultural technologies and methods from, you guess it, before the oil boom. Even with the best harvests, Venezuela can no longer produce enough food to feed more than 1/3 of their population.

3) Oil price may be plummeting, but the real mortal wound is self-inflicted: Venezuela's rapidly-dropping oil production rate that is now a record 13-year low, thanks to failing machinery and equipment that have never been replaced since the glorious Socialist revolution, because Chavez just assumes they will run forever without fresh investments.

Now, the Bolivares aren't worth the paper they're printed on thanks to hyper inflation, and the Venezuela doesn't have the money to import all those basic things that they needs anymore, and they are fucked because their farm lands lays barren and their factories are just hunk of rusted metal incapable of producing anything but rats.
 
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Dude, export is NOT the reason why Venezuela has officially ran out of everything! They ran out of everything because they're no longer capable of manufacturing anything!

The point that Rod1 and I are making involves around manufacturing and imports, which seems to be alien concepts to you.

Let me break it down to three basic steps:

1) Once upon a time, Venezuela were able to manufacture many of their essential needs. They exported what they have in excess, produce essential items that they need with their domestic industries, and import the high-end stuffs that they can't make themselves.

2) Chavez destroyed all those manufacturing industries, and Venezuela became reliant on imports to get EVERYTHING they need, using the windfall from oil sale, including all the basic essential items they were once able to make for themselves, like say, food and toilet papers.

Consider this: over 2/3 of Venezuela's food supplies today came from outside sources (such as the American Imperialists that Chavez and Maduro hates so much), because the few farms still functional in Venezuela are farming with ancient technologies and methods from before World War II.

3) Oil price plumet, the Bolivares aren't worth the paper they're printed on thanks to hyper inflation, and the Maduro don't have the money to import those basic things anymore, and they are fucked because all the factories mothballed by the revolution are just hunk of rusted metal incapable of producing anything but rats.

Sounds pretty damn crappy. Doesn't sound like it's going to get better anytime soon either.
 
Agree it should be ..and for years the scumbag greedy far right there werr no better at diversifying

The economy nosedived as it was based on oil and oil nosedived

But greedy pricks that ran away as they had to give up a bit more of their wealth are 100% trustworthy?

Actually that is not true. First of all the far right in Venezuela is left. This is what the Venezuelan opposition policies are;

1.) High social benefits and pension schemes
2.) Free healthcare, salud chacao is a example - started by a opposition mayor
3.) Free speech in all cases especially social media
4.) Increase wages

Now Chavistas are very far left. The three biggest differences between opposition and chavez are;

1.) Chavez hates US and Opposition likes US
2.) Chavez wants a command economy, Opposition doesn't
3.) Chavez passed a social media law that can arrest you if you make a aggressive tweet. In fact the case against Leopoldo Lopez was based on a series of tweets he made. He is in jail for 10 years because he tweeted "Support the students" during the Feb.13 protests started by students.

Remember the opposition plans to keep the state oil company as a state oil company.

And I just want to highlight salud chacao. A free health care program for all residents of chacao in caracas. Chacao is a upper middle class neighbourhood who gave out free health care which was pretty good. I know cause I used it.

But to use it you had to be a resident of Chacao. The system was so good that even people from chavez supported neighbourhoods actually faked their addresses to use it. And the opposition mayor after 2 years of people using fake credentials to use it. He declared that all residents of Venezuela have access to salud chacao.

Hardly seems like a far right thing to do.

You may think the venezuela opposition is far right but in reality they are Bernie Sanders. The difference is Chavez is more like to Castro. So it is isn't right vs left.

It is left with brains vs very far left with revolutionary spirit.
 
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Dude, export is NOT the reason why Venezuela has officially ran out of everything! They ran out of everything because they're no longer capable of manufacturing anything!

The point that Rod1 and I are making involves around the other two parts of an economy: manufacturing and imports, which seems to be alien concepts to you.

Let me break it down to three basic steps:

1) Once upon a time, Venezuela were able to manufacture many of their essential needs. They exported what they have in excess, produce essential items that they need with their domestic industries, and import the high-end stuffs that they can't make themselves.

2) Chavez destroyed all those manufacturing industries, and Venezuela became reliant on imports to get EVERYTHING they need, using the windfall from oil sale, including all the basic essential items they were once able to make for themselves, like say, food and toilet papers. Why going through the effort of making it when you have the money to import it, right?

Consider this: over 2/3 of Venezuela's food supplies today came from outside sources (such as the American Imperialists that Chavez and Maduro hates so much), because the few farms still functional in Venezuela are farming with ancient technologies and methods from before World War II.

3) Oil price plumet, the Bolivares aren't worth the paper they're printed on thanks to hyper inflation, and the Maduro don't have the money to import those basic things anymore, and they are fucked because all the factories mothballed by the revolution are just hunk of rusted metal incapable of producing anything but rats.

That is 100% right. However I want to point out bad economic planning by Chavez.

The financial minister in 2007 said by 2014 oil will be around $250 a barrel. He actually bet so much on it that they did overspend thinking money was coming.

I have said it before the best thing to happen to chavez was his death. Because all these problems were coming, but now the blame goes to Maduro.

However shortages and power shortages started in 2011 and rationing started in 2011. I know cause I was there. But now it is very wide spread. But in 2011 I say the power shortage were done once every 3 month. Now they are done twice a week.
 
Before Chavez rose to power and decimated Venezuela's industries, there were over 12,000 corporations operating full-time in sectors other than oil (manufacturing, agriculture, mining, etc).

Now there are less than 3,000 companies in all of Venezuela, many are hollow shells of their former self after being expropriated and destroyed by the state, each barely operates a few work days each month, not because of the low oil price or the evil plots of Maduro's "foreign enemies", but simply because there are no raw materials to produce anything, thanks to the draconian rules imposed on the market.
Never disputed thay..doesnt change what i daid beingbtrue
 
Actually that is not true. First of all the far right in Venezuela is left. This is what the Venezuelan opposition policies are;
1.) High social benefits and pension schemes
2.) Free healthcare, salud chacao is a example - started by a opposition mayor
3.) Free speech in all cases especially social media
4.) Increase wages

Now Chavistas are very far left. The three biggest differences between opposition and chavez are;

1.) Chavez hates US and Opposition likes US
2.) Chavez wants a command economy, Opposition doesn't
3.) Chavez passed a social media law that can arrest you if you make a aggressive tweet. In fact the case against Leopoldo Lopez was based on a series of tweets he made. He is in jail for 10 years because he tweeted "Support the students" during the Feb.13 protests started by students.

Remember the opposition plans to keep the state oil company as a state oil company.

And I just want to highlight salud chacao. A free health care program for all residents of chacao in caracas. Chacao is a upper middle class neighbourhood who gave out free health care which was pretty good. I know cause I used it.

But to use it you had to be a resident of Chacao. The system was so good that even people from chavez supported neighbourhoods actually faked their addresses to use it. And the opposition mayor after 2 years of people using fake credentials to use it. He declared that all residents of Venezuela have access to salud chacao.

Hardly seems like a far right thing to do.

You may think the venezuela opposition is far right but in reality they are Bernie Sanders. The difference is Chavez is more like to Castro. So it is isn't right vs left.

It is left with brains vs very far left with revolutionary spirit.
Id counter argue after chavez victories no one can get elected now without some serious left policies, the extreme poor arernt going back to the way things were.

And shock chavez was anti u.s? The country that scummily backed a fuckng coup vs him ? No shit id be a little angry myself

Id agree with u they have gone too far ..socalism isnt communism despite what some retards feel ,its usualy when u cross the line of trying to utterly control an economy not just influence it u done goofed into communism



Bear in mind europe has free speech but some legislation in place around it, both america and europe had reatrictions in place following ww2 as the greatest generation saw the threat propaganda could cause an otherwise well educated society
Europe kept its restrictions whereas the u.s lost its in the 80s .....fox 'news 'etc is the result!!!! U want that shit for venuzula?
My point is getting back to lopez is he backed the coup and later in opposition said protests could bring down the goverment and incited them....dude hasnt learned a fuxking thing


As for the oil id say watch the opposition talk of efficency and need to bring in the free market ,they will privitize by stealth (look at uk nhs) when something state owned is too popular to outright sell

And a longtime established upper middle class neighbourhoods healthcare was better than the former shanty towns basic care? No shocker there
 
Id counter argue after chavez victories no one can get elected now without some serious left policies, the extreme poor arernt going back to the way things were.

And shock chavez was anti u.s? The country that scummily backed a fuckng coup vs him ? No shit id be a little angry myself

Id agree with u they have gone too far ..socalism isnt communism despite what some retards feel ,its usualy when u cross the line of trying to utterly control an economy not just influence it u done goofed into communism



Bear in mind europe has free speech but some legislation in place around it, both america and europe had reatrictions in place following ww2 as the greatest generation saw the threat propaganda could cause an otherwise well educated society
Europe kept its restrictions whereas the u.s lost its in the 80s .....fox 'news 'etc is the result!!!! U want that shit for venuzula?
My point is getting back to lopez is he backed the coup and later in opposition said protests could bring down the goverment and incited them....dude hasnt learned a fuxking thing


As for the oil id say watch the opposition talk of efficency and need to bring in the free market ,they will privitize by stealth (look at uk nhs) when something state owned is too popular to outright sell

And a longtime established upper middle class neighbourhoods healthcare was better than the former shanty towns basic care? No shocker there

Well lets discuss Salud Chacao. This is not a long time established healthcare system for rich people. It was started in 2004. The difference between Salud Chacao and Chavez run programs was efficiency. Taxes for all residents in Venezuela is very low for a socialist country. That being said Chavez has been known to tax his enemies at higher rates.

I think the success of Salud Chacao and the open door policy to all Venezuelans was a hit to chavez run healthcare. And I would argue that Chavez healthcare initiative had 5 times the money of salud chacao. The problem was inefficiency and lack of proper organization. That is why many chavez supporters went to Salud Chacao. And they didnt even pay for it because it came out of Chacao resident's taxes and donations.

Now to the opposition coup. It must be hard for people who have never lived through coups or understand latin american politics from a first hand point of view. But coups are pretty normal. Even chavez organized two coups in 1992, both backed by independent financiers and Cuba. And Cuba organized two attempted coups in the 1960s against democratically elected Venezuelan governments.

So how come it is okay when Cuba and Chavez do coups and it is wrong when the opposition does it?

I disagree with all coup attempts and I believe the coup attempt damaged the opposition's credibility. But I believe most Venezuelans really do not care about coups in the long run. My parents lived through 5 attempts and I through 2. And probably there will be at least 1 more in my lifetime.

Yes Europe has social media laws. But explain to me how "Support the students" is cause for jail time. Yes Lopez supported the coup and signed the document confirming to remove chavez in 2002. But the truth is so did a lot of people. And I will remind you Chavez issued a general pardon. Remember the general who "caputured" chavez actually became chavez's defense minister after he personally removed chavez from power.

No doubt Lopez wanted to use the protest to remove Maduro but what he was hoping for was a political referendum. Which is currently approved by the national assembly but more than likely will be rejected by a chavez supreme court. I disagree with the immediate removal of Maduro but I feel the opposition wants to get rid of Maduro because they are afraid of the future. Things are bad but Maduro is weak compared to Cabello who has the full backing of the military unlike Maduro. And the opposition knows Cabello will be more aggressive handling protestors and will violate the constitution.

Well again having lived in Venezuela I do not think Venezuelans in general are far left. I think they are left but so is the opposition. There is a reason why the opposition won back the general assembly which is harder to win back then the presidency. If the election were held today Maduro will lose.

The reason I believe PDVSA will remain state own under a Capriles or Lopez presidency is because the state will need that oil money. Once oil goes high.

This opposition is pretty left in my opinion but again there is left and there is chavez left.

The Venezuelan people just want a good life they do not care the form in comes in. I do agree with you they are more left leaning now than before.
 
Behold.... A centrally planned economy.



I left venezuela about 2 years ago. There is one item of food in the video is 900BSF 3 years ago it was 10. Back then 900BSF was about a half a month's salary for the average public sector worker.

So to buy a regular item of food and cheap restaurant which that place is in the video you need to spend about half your monthly salary.
 
Dude, export is NOT the reason why Venezuela has officially ran out of everything! They ran out of everything because they're no longer capable of manufacturing anything!

The point that Rod1 and I are making involves around the other two parts of an economy: manufacturing and imports, which seems to be alien concepts to you.

Let me break it down to three basic steps:

1) Once upon a time, Venezuela were able to manufacture many of their essential needs. They exported what they have in excess, produce essential items that they need with their domestic industries, and import the high-end stuffs that they can't make themselves.

2) Chavez destroyed all those manufacturing industries, and Venezuela became reliant on imports to get EVERYTHING they need, using the windfall from oil sale, including all the basic essential items they were once able to make for themselves, like say, food and toilet papers. Why going through the effort of making it when you have the money to import it, right?

Consider this: Venezuela's agriculture industry was a net exporter of foodstuff before the oil boom. Now over 2/3 of Venezuela's food supplies today came from outside sources (such as Colombia and the American Imperialists that Chavez and Maduro hates so much), and the few farms still functional in Venezuela are operating with ancient technologies and methods from, you guess it, before the oil boom.

3) Oil price plumet, the Bolivares aren't worth the paper they're printed on thanks to hyper inflation, and the Maduro don't have the money to import those basic things anymore, and they are fucked because all the factories mothballed by the revolution are just hunk of rusted metal incapable of producing anything but rats.

This good to know. I always thought it was more than just oil prices dropping. I mean then why arent all the Persian gulf states then going through this same thing?
 
This good to know. I always thought it was more than just oil prices dropping. I mean then why arent all the Persian gulf states then going through this same thing?

Yup, it's easier for Chavez and Maduro to blame "foreign enemies of the State" rather than admitting their oil-based socialist economic policies sucked. A leader who continue to base a country's entire economy on a single revenue stream after half a century of investments plundering is no leader at all, you can have a $30 computer chip to do that automated job!

In contrast, this is how Dubai invested their oil money when OPEC life was good at $80/barrel:

Dubai's economy was built on the back of the oil industry, which developed rapidly after oil was first struck in the mid 1960s. Since then Dubai has developed a diverse economy and by 2000 the oil sector accounted for just 10 percent of Dubai's GDP. The city now has thriving manufacturing, finance, information technology and tourism sectors and is home to numerous multinational companies such as AT&T, General Motors, Heinz, IBM, Shell, and Sony. Figures published by the Dubai Development and Investment Authority show that Dubai's GDP totaled $16.4 billion US in 2000.

The manufacturing sector in Dubai is very healthy with some of the most important industries including beverages, chemicals, paper, pharmaceuticals and rubber. The financial services industry grew by a remarkable 12 percent per annum during the 1990s and this trend seems set to continue. All the major international accountancy firms have offices in Dubai and the city is also home to dozens of national and locally incorporated international banks. Furthermore, the banking sector will be completely opened up to foreign banks by 2005. In March 2000, the UAE's first stock exchange, the Dubai Financial Market was opened.

To encourage the development of the technology sector the Dubai Internet City was established. This information technology and telecommunications centre has been set up inside a free trade zone and allows 100 percent foreign ownership and sales, while company earnings and private income are exempt from any form of taxation. The site is already home to hundreds of companies including Arabia, Cisco, Compaq, Hewlett Packard, IBM, Microsoft and Oracle.

The tourist industry is the fastest growing sector within Dubai's economy. The number of tourists visiting Dubai has increased dramatically over the last 10 years, especially with regards to visitors from Western Europe, and the government hopes to attract 10 million tourists a year by 2010. With this in mind, huge investment is being made to develop the city's hotel, leisure and recreational infrastructure.

Local Infrastructure:
Dubai International Airport is the busiest in the Middle East and, according to the Airports Council International (ACI), is one of the fastest growing airports in the world. It catered for approximately 16 million passengers in 2002, an increase of some 18 percent on the previous year, and is expected to cater for 30 million passengers a year by 2010. The airport has benefited from considerable investment and, in 2000, the first stage of expansion was completed with the opening of a new terminal. This brought the airports capacity up to 22 million passengers a year. The next stage of expansion work is currently underway and is due to be completed in 2006. By 2018 the airport plans to have a total passenger handling capacity of 45 million.

Dubai also benefits from extensive port facilities with terminals at Jebel Ali Port and Port Rashid. In 2001, the Dubai Ports Authority (DPA) catered for well over 11,000 ships carrying a total of 47 million tons of cargo. The ports are capable of handling a large variety of cargo and are among the best in the Middle East. The (DPA) was recently awarded the 'Best Seaport in the Middle East' award for the 9th consecutive year, at the Asian Freight & Supply Chain Industry Awards.

Local Workforce:
According to figures from the Ministry of Planning, Dubai had an employed workforce of more than 522,000 people in 2000. The trade sector was the biggest employer, accounting for 25 per cent of employment, followed by manufacturing, construction and services. Government services were responsible for employing 9 percent of the workforce.

Standard of Living:
Dubai is a truly cosmopolitan city with a lively and modern environment that offers a fantastic quality of life. The city benefits from excellent schools, modern medical facilities and great shopping and entertainment opportunities. Dubai also plays host to a fantastic horse racing track and the ATP tennis tour and there is an annual shopping festival, which is gaining an international reputation.

The city has a sub-tropical climate with mild temperate winters and very hot summers. There is very little rainfall, even in the winter months.

Business Costs:
Office occupancy costs in Dubai are extremely competitive. Figures from a report published by Richard Ellis Global Research & Consulting in 2002 put the total occupancy cost of offices in Dubai at $24.10 US per square foot per annum.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/marketplace/ibi/dubai.htm
Cliff Notes:

During the oil boom in the 60s, it was the backbone of Dubai's economy, just like any OPEC members.

Flash forwards to the 21 century, oil contribute to less than 10% of Dubai's economy, because they were smart enough to use that leverage to build up other world-class industries (tourism, financial, manufacturing, IT), rather than destroying them systematically like the socialists in Venezuela.

And that is why blaming the low oil price for the state of misery in Venezuela using the argument that "Venezuela's oil exports have always been 90% of their GDP" from the day Chavez rose to power all the way until now would be hilarious, if it wasn't so damn sad.
 
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