Venezuela, The Starving Socialist Dystopia (Part 1)

[Rod1]

For the new-comers to the thread: The "low oil price destroyed the Venezuelan economy, not socialism!" apologists have already been thoroughly destroyed on page 3-4.



The sad part is he wasn't actually trolling. Go back to page 3 to see @Rod1 taking him to school.

This is why you never say stupid shit in Arkain2K's megathreads, especially on Page 1. It will come back to haunt you for years to come.

#notrealcommunism

Some people just cant accept the fact that communism doesnt works.

 

[Arkain2K]

#notrealcommunism

Some people just cant accept the fact that communism doesnt works.

I like how every time a new headline pop up, Britons would tag Jeremy Corbyn and Americans would tag Bernie Sanders on Twitter to remind them how they once raved about Venezuela as the shining beacon for the world to aspire to, when Chavez rounded up the Venezuelan public sectors and "shared their wealth".

At least those two Chavistas have the decency to STFU and eat their crows when everyone on the street are now equally poor and hungry, instead of digging the hole deeper like the apologists on Sherdog.

 

[Arkain2K]

Analysis: Why Do Many on the Global Left Still Support Venezuela’s Maduro?
by Simeon Tegel | Oct 26, 2017

Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro speaks during a press conference with international media correspondents at the Miraflores Presidential Palace in Caracas on October 17, 2017​

LIMA, Peru — Addressing Peru's national congress in the wake of Venezuela's widely condemned constituent election this summer, representative Manuel Dammert of the leftist Broad Front party described the poll as an "epic democratic accomplishment."

Hailing the heavy win by the administration of President Nicolás Maduro, Dammert expressed his "recognition and solidarity with the fraternal people of Venezuela who have defeated the imperialist meddling maneuvers of Trump and his lackeys."

The Peruvian lawmaker’s speech came despite the United Nations, European Union and Organization of American States all suggesting the vote was nothing more than an authoritarian ruse to usurp Venezuela's opposition-dominated national legislature.

It also came amid a mushrooming vote-rigging controversy. That received renewed momentum, the day after Dammert spoke, from the British company that supplied the voting machines to the Venezuelan government. It claimed at least one million votes had been fabricated.

A demonstrator takes cover behind a makeshift shield as clashes with riot police erupt, during a march against President Maduro on May 10 ​

In the United States, where support for the Maduro regime — which has overseen Venezuela's collapse into economic catastrophe and what many regard as outright dictatorship — is restricted to a tiny political fringe, Dammert's comments might seem jarring.

But they remain typical of many elected hard left leaders across Latin America and Europe. From Lima to London, prominent progressives, some within spitting distance of governing, still either actively defend the Venezuelan regime or resist calls to condemn its abuses.

Former Mexico City mayor Andrés Manuel López Obrador, an early frontrunner in his country's 2018 presidential election, has suggested Venezuela's opposition leaders are encouraging protesters demanding elections to needlessly risk their lives, effectively blaming them for the violent repression they face.

In Brazil, various leaders of the Workers Party of former president Luiz Inácio “Lula” da Silva, continue to back the Maduro regime. Party chairwoman Gleisi Hoffman even defended the constituent assembly against what she calls a "violent offensive by the right."

Across the Atlantic, Spain's populist insurgent Podemos party, perhaps just one election away from forming its first ever government, has also continued to back the Maduro regime, with leader Pablo Iglesias insisting the constituent vote was "legitimate."

But the most prominent European "Chavista" sympathizer is Jeremy Corbyn, leader of the United Kingdom's main opposition party. Long an admirer of the Venezuelan model of "21st Century socialism" and once dismissed as a fringe leftist, he is now viewed as strong contender for prime minister after his Labour Party's unexpectedly strong showing in the June election.

Corbyn has consistently avoided any clear condemnation of Maduro's authoritarianism or acknowledgement of the Venezuelan government's catastrophic policy failures.

By almost any standard, including its principal aim of reducing poverty, the "Bolivarian socialist revolution" launched by Maduro's predecessor, the late Hugo Chávez in 1999, has been a spectacular failure.

Venezuela endures hyperinflation and shortages of food and medicines so intense that the average citizen lost 19 pounds in 2016. It also has a homicide rate so high many residents fear leaving their homes in broad daylight. All this despite Venezuela having the world's highest crude reserves.

Yet Venezuelans have increasingly been denied the right to express their disapproval, with human rights groups accusing the government of silencing critical journalists, jailing political opponents, and using violence to repress protesters.

For Dawisson Belém Lopes, a professor of international politics at Brazil's Minas Gerais Federal University, the refusal by some in the global left to acknowledge the Venezuelan government's human rights abuses and flouting of the constitution, is rooted in an outdated image of Latin America.

Although supporting Maduro is often "political suicide," many on the left still see geopolitics as a binary choice between Cuban-style "revolution" or being a satellite of US "imperialism," he adds.

"There is a lot of romanticizing of Latin America, with this image still that it is full of guerrillas, like Fidel [Castro] and Che [Guevara]," says Belém Lopes, who describes himself as a fan of the Chavista attempts to curb inequality — until personally witnessing empty shop shelves and massive food lines during a 2014 trip to the country.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/v...ftists-defend-nicol-s-maduro-s-regime-n803866

 

[IDL]

I like how every time a new headline pop up, Britons would tag Jeremy Corbyn and Americans would tag Bernie Sanders on Twitter to remind them how they once raved about Venezuela as the shining beacon for the world to aspire to, when Chavez rounded up the Venezuelan public sectors and "shared their wealth".

At least those two Chavistas have the decency to STFU and eat their crows when everyone on the street are equally poor and hungry, instead of digging the hole deeper like the apologists on Sherdog.

If all you care about is equality, it's certainly a lot easier to make everyone equally poor than it is to make them equally well off.

 

[ShinkanPo]

For the new-comers to the thread: The "low oil price destroyed the Venezuelan economy, not socialism!" apologists have already been thoroughly destroyed on page 3-4.



The sad part is he wasn't actually trolling. Go back to page 3 to see @Rod1 taking him to school.

This is why you never say stupid shit in Arkain2K's megathreads, especially on Page 1. It will come back to haunt you for years to come.

way to go Rody!! @Rod1 always taking fools to school in Arkain's thread!

 

[dirtroller]

Are there really videos of people eating from garbage cans and eating dogs and cats (in some cases raw) due starvation? I don't have the heart to look into these things

I will never understand how Venezuela with the great example of Cuba only miles away has fallen this hard. Well I understand it but I wish it wasn't at this point

The great example of Cuba? You must be out of your damn mind.

 

[AlexDB9]

The great example of Cuba? You must be out of your damn mind.

I’m Cuban and was laying down the sarcasm pretty thick bro......

 

[dirtroller]

I’m Cuban and was laying down the sarcasm pretty thick bro......

Ah, me too. The socialist apologism is so pervasive in some of these posts it makes it hard to recognize sarcasm.

 

[AlexDB9]

Ah, me too. The socialist apologism is so pervasive in some of these posts it makes it hard to recognize sarcasm.

Tell me about it man, I have had conversations with a couple posters who stated that Cuba was not a “real” communism (with some overly convoluted explanations of course) and my reply has simply been if what I lived through wasn’t real communism then shit man I don’t want to live through the real thing

The simple point I was trying to make with my sarcasm was that I couldn’t believe Venezuelans chose to go down their recent route with the example of Cuba going to shit right there for them to learn from. Yet I still sympathize with the people who are suffering

 

[Arkain2K]

Maduro names National Guard's General to head Venezuela oil firm PDVSA

95 per cent of Venezuela's export income comes from oil. ​

Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro has named a general to head the state oil company, PDVSA, and the country's energy ministry.

Mr Maduro said the appointment of Major General Manuel Quevedo was "a new oil revolution" to tackle corruption.

Last week executives of Citgo, the oil company's US refining subsidiary, were arrested over corruption allegations.

Venezuela is in a deep economic crisis the government blames on "enemies in the US". Opponents cite mismanagement.

The move comes days after PDVSA and Venezuela were declared in selective default for failing to meet payments on bonds.

The company's bonds represent 30% of Venezuela's external debt.

Analysts say the Venezuelan oil industry has been damaged by underinvestment, chronic corruption, the departure of many of its most experienced people with expertise and training, and a shortage of spare parts.

PDVSA accounts for about 95% of the country's export earnings but output has been in steep decline for years.

President Maduro said on Sunday that increased productivity was a top priority.

It is unclear how General Quevedo will increase oil production and what role he will have in restructuring Venezuela's debt, but Mr Maduro has urged him to purge PDVSA of corruption.

Correspondents say that as oil production flags, Mr Maduro's administration appears to be switching blame for the country's spiralling economic crisis from the opposition to officials in the oil industry.

About 50 managers at PDVSA have been arrested since August.

General Quevedo is an officer in the National Guard, which played a key role in subduing violent anti-Maduro protests in 2014.

At least a third of President Maduro's cabinet is made up of active or retired officers, and the military has become a major pillar of his support.

General Quevedo was formerly a minister of housing, and has no known significant experience in the energy sector.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-42132694

 

[Arkain2K]

New Venezuela oil boss to give military more PDVSA posts
Alexandra Ulmer, Deisy Buitrago

CARACAS (Reuters) - A general appointed at the weekend to run Venezuela’s energy sector will name more military officers to senior management posts at state oil company PDVSA as part of a shakeup the government says is aimed at fighting corruption, two company sources told Reuters on Monday.

In a surprise move, unpopular leftist President Nicolas Maduro on Sunday tapped Major General Manuel Quevedo to lead PDVSA [PDVSA.UL] and the Oil Ministry, giving the already powerful military control of the OPEC nation’s dominant industry.

Besides the corruption scandals, Quevedo will have to tackle an attempted debt restructuring, within the context of a deep recession and debilitating U.S. sanctions.

Sources in the sector said Quevedo’s appointment could quicken a white-collar exodus from PDVSA and worsen operational problems at a time when production has already tumbled to near 30-year lows of under 2 million barrels per day.

About 50 officials at state oil company PDVSA have been arrested since August in what the state prosecutor says is a “crusade” against corruption.

Sources within PDVSA and the oil industry said Maduro’s administration was using corruption allegations to sideline rivals and deepen its control of the industry, which accounts for over 90 percent of export revenue.

“The order given is to militarize PDVSA in key areas,” said a PDVSA employee, asking to remain anonymous because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

A second source said he was told military officials would take over key production divisions in Venezuela’s east and west.

Venezuela’s president, a former bus driver and union leader whose popularity has plummeted during the economic crisis, has gradually handed the military more power in his cabinet and in key sectors such as mining.

Unlike his popular predecessor Hugo Chavez, Maduro does not hail from the military. The opposition says he has been forced to buy the loyalty of the army, historically a power broker in Venezuela, giving them top posts and juicy business contracts while turning a blind eye to corruption.

PDVSA did not immediately respond to a request for comment, but an internal company message seen by Reuters called on workers to come to Caracas on Tuesday for Quevedo’s swearing in.

“Let’s all go to Caracas to consolidate the deepening of socialism and the total, absolute transformation of PDVSA,” the message read.

INCREASING MILITARY SWAY

Quevedo, a former housing minister with no known energy experience, is not a heavyweight in Venezuela’s political scene, although two sources close to the military told Reuters he was a Maduro ally.

Opposition lawmaker Angel Alvarado predicted the appointment would worsen PDVSA’s operations.

“They’re getting rid of the old executives, who although socialist and working under catastrophic management, at least knew about oil,” he said. “Now we’re going to have totally inexperienced hands.”

Although military appointees had been on the rise within the oil industry too, Quevedo’s appointment is the first time in a decade and a half that a military official has taken the helm of the oil industry.

PDVSA so far had been led by chemist Nelson Martinez and the Oil Ministry by engineer Eulogio Del Pino, both of whom rose in the ranks under previous PDVSA president and Oil Minister Rafael Ramirez.

Later demoted to become Venezuela’s representative at the United Nations in New York, Ramirez recently criticized Maduro for not reforming Venezuela’s flailing economy, in what insiders say is a power struggle between the two rivals.

OIL COMPANIES WORRY

The opposition has also accused Quevedo of violating human rights during the National Guard’s handling of anti-Maduro protests, in which stone-throwing hooded youths regularly clashed with tear gas-firing soldiers.

U.S. Senator Marco Rubio included Quevedo on a 2014 list of Venezuelan officials whom he said should be named in U.S. sanctions, although Quevedo does not appear in the list released by the U.S. Treasury Department.

Venezuela’s government denies abuses, saying protesters were in fact part of a U.S.-promoted “armed insurrection” designed to sabotage socialism in Latin America.

Quevedo’s appointment has worried foreign oil companies in Venezuela, including U.S. major Chevron and Russian state oil giant Rosneft, according to industry sources.

Venezuela is also trying to pull off a complex restructuring of foreign debt, including $60 billion in bonds, about half of which have been issued by PDVSA. Bondholders were invited to Caracas for a meeting with the government two weeks ago, but market sources say there has been no concrete progress or proposals since.

PDVSA said on Friday it was making last-minute payments on two bonds close to default, including one backed by shares in U.S.-based Citgo, a Venezuelan-owned refiner and marketer of oil and petrochemical products, due on Monday, and called for “trust” as it seeks to maintain debt service amid the crisis.

Quevedo’s position on the debt issue is not publicly known.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-give-military-more-pdvsa-posts-idUSKBN1DR1T2

 

[ShinkanPo]

So he is desperate for Military support as that is the only way he can retain power lets see if the foot soldiers with the rifles and bayonets will play along he can bribe Generals and officers but he can't bribe the majority of the troops who will also suffer economically.

Maduro is just buying time and just postponing the inevitable.

 

[Rematch]

Incoming junta after the assassination of the highly unpopular of Maduro by "rebels/outsiders/jealous mistress".

 

[Arkain2K]

Incoming junta after the assassination of the highly unpopular of Maduro by "rebels/outsiders/jealous mistress".

There's really no need for an unfortunate accident to happen to dearest leader. The military now controls both the food AND oil supply, the two things actually worth something in that shithole.

My guest is none of the generals really want to inherit this godawful mess that their socialist leaders created either. They just want their families to be fed first and their soldiers paid first before everyone else.

 

[Rematch]

There's really no need for an unfortunate accident to happen to dearest leader. The military now controls both the food AND oil supply, the two things actually worth something in that shithole.

My guest is none of the generals really want to inherit this godawful mess that their socialist leaders created either. They just want their families to be fed first and their soldiers paid first before everyone else.

No. You misunderstand me. Maduro is a liability that will force the military to form junta that will likely be seen as an improvement over Maduro which will allow the military to maintain there privileges amongst a people that will be satiated (for how long?) with a regime change.

 

[ShinkanPo]

MaDurrrrr O

 

[Thycidides]

Goes to show how discredited and morally bankrupt the opposition is that Maduro and the military is seen as preferable to them by the Venezuelan poor.

They have no plans to solve the crises and would make it even worse. Why should Corbyn and the left support Venezuelan contras?

It seems to me that if Corbyn was in power along with Lula, Pedro Sanchez and Bernie Sanders the problem could be solved. Maduro would feel less pressure and be more willing to compromise with such powefull allies in his corner. Those leaders would be willing to forgive debts and provide aid.

What good have May, Trump, Rajoy and Temer done to solve the crises? Nothing.

 

[Rod1]

Goes to show how discredited and morally bankrupt the opposition is that Maduro and the military is seen as preferable to them by the Venezuelan poor.

They have no plans to solve the crises and would make it even worse. Why should Corbyn and the left support Venezuelan contras?

It seems to me that if Corbyn was in power along with Lula, Pedro Sanchez and Bernie Sanders the problem could be solved. Maduro would feel less pressure and be more willing to compromise with such powefull allies in his corner. Those leaders would be willing to forgive debts and provide aid.

What good have May, Trump, Rajoy and Temer done to solve the crises? Nothing.

Too obvious.

 

[Thycidides]

Too obvious.

I don't understand what you mean by this. The solution is obvious or I am a obvious troll?

In any case I don't think you have a solution to the crises and neither does the opposition to Maduro which is probably most of the country at this point considering even some former Chavistas called for him to leave office.

 

[Rod1]

I don't understand what you mean by this. The solution is obvious or I am a obvious troll?

In any case I don't think you have a solution to the crises and neither does the opposition to Maduro which is probably most of the country at this point considering even some former Chavistas called for him to leave office.

You are an obvious troll.