Venezuela, The Starving Socialist Dystopia (Part 1)

Judging by US obesity rates I think we're preparing ourselves just fine.
Shocker! There is a quote from Evo Morales bemoaning capitalism as well.
Evo%2BMorales%2BCapitalism%2Bor%2BEarth.png


I've been to Bolivia and seen the repugnant poverty. There is no charity or system that has lifted more people from poverty than capitalism. All the places that have tried a "socialist revolution" have ended unimaginably badly. Some people may be willing to risk their own well-being on an idea that never works in practice, but I am not one of them.

Well, Europe is socialism isnt it?
 
Well, Europe is socialism isnt it?
No, not even close. Even Denmark, where Bernie always points as a great example of socialism, has strongly stated that Bernie is mistaken and they aren't socialist, and have a strong, market economy. It's much easier to start a business in Denmark than it is in the US.
 
Fuck guys... it's happening here. BERNIE SANDERS WHAT HAVE YOU STARTED?!

 
More Libertarian doom and gloom? To think I actually sort of liked that ideology at one point.

I'll be here for you with open arms. Just curious, how bad will this economy have to get before I get your concession?
 
I'll be here for you with open arms. Just curious, how bad will this economy have to get before I get your concession?

Whenever we run out of tacos.

That's when the revolution truly starts.

Trump better stay the fuck away from the Mexicans.
 
Socialism and communist regimes were always running on borrowed time and the majority of them only worked as long as they did with a strong industrial base.

I felt that Venezuela's drift to the left was kind of warranted in a way in the early 2000s and did have some positive effects early on, but Chavez and Maduro never had an interest - let alone a plan - to 'normalize' the economy again. People pay an insanely high price for that now. Yet it is also true that they elected Chavez time after time.
 
Socialism and communist regimes were always running on borrowed time and the majority of them only worked as long as they did with a strong industrial base.

I felt that Venezuela's drift to the left was kind of warranted in a way in the early 2000s and did have some positive effects early on, but Chavez and Maduro never had an interest - let alone a plan - to 'normalize' the economy again. People pay an insanely high price for that now. Yet it is also true that they elected Chavez time after time.

Latim American politics man.
 
I think the last election was pretty close and fraud was rampant.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election,_2013

The last election to put Maduro in power was pretty close. He got over fifty percent of the total votes, when it should have been closer to ZERO percent.

But as already covered in the discussion on Page 4, that's not even matter at this point: there's virtually nothing Maduro can do to stop the train without brakes that he inherited from his predecessor from heading towards the cliff.

Venezuela was already set on that path at full speed when Hugo Chavez, thinking oil was the only industry his country ever needs, decided to appropriated all other industrial base and promptly ran them to the ground.

At the same time, the smart OPEC members (such as Dubai) wisely used their oil revenue to GROW other domestic industries, not destroying them.

The stark economic contrast resulted from today's low oil prices really shined a light on the discrepancy between the smart leaders and the idiotic leaders.

And it's undeniable that Venezuelans loved Chavez, even while looking directly at him destroying their country, one nationalized industry at a time. Hell, they still consider him a National Hero now!

Today, Venezuelans blame Maduro personally for the shithole they're living in, but I don't think there's that many people in that shithole are smart enough to realize that they did this to themselves the moment they, as a collective, decided that they would embark and continue on the Socialist route with their National Hero all the way until the day he dies.
 
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Well, Europe is socialism isnt it?

Socialism has different meanings depending where you live. In Europe socialists just defend high taxes and welfare. In marxist socialism the government runs all the business(the means of production) and controls the economy.

This is never going to happen in the USA and other western countries, so no need to worry.
 
No, not even close. Even Denmark, where Bernie always points as a great example of socialism, has strongly stated that Bernie is mistaken and they aren't socialist, and have a strong, market economy. It's much easier to start a business in Denmark than it is in the US.

They are mixed economies. Elements of socialism mixed with elements of capitalism.

And although it is easier to start a business in Denmark, you have to pay a higher MW(about 3X the US one), and you cant just crush the labor movement as was done in the US.
 
They are mixed economies. Elements of socialism mixed with elements of capitalism.

And although it is easier to start a business in Denmark, you have to pay a higher MW(about 3X the US one), and you cant just crush the labor movement as was done in the US.
I don't know for sure, but I think the opposition to paying the gov't is greater than the paying the workers more. I don't know, cause it's never been attempted. If I were an employer, which I am, I'd rather pay my employees more and have it come out of the gov't's share.
 
I think it is important to point out that Venezuela wasn't socialist. They were more communist them socialist.

My taxes in Venezuela were shockingly low for a socialist country. The only companies that pay a high tax rate were government competitors or companies Chavez did not like. He once taxed a media company that was a opposition company, $2million dollars for showing the news. He said reporting on a prison break was wrong. And later after that company was in debt he bought that media company on the cheap.

The truth is Venezuela didn't fail because of socialism. Venezuela failed because Chavez appointed loyal idiots. He would rather see Venezuela suffer under his version of socialism then succeed with a more capitalist economy.

And now Venezuelans are paying the price.
 
Looting, arrests soar as Venezuela’s food crisis mount

636016018448223697-EPA-VENEZUELA-PROTEST.jpg

LA VICTORIA, Venezuela — Hungry Venezuelans escalated attacks on trucks carrying scarce food to the country’s largest cities Wednesday, a day after hundreds of protesters were arrested by security forces.

Photos on social media showed looters attacking trucks on the highway that connects Venezuela’s main port of Puerto Cabello to the industrial city of Valencia. Others said that trucks ferrying food now can’t enter Cumana due to frequent attacks being carried out on the highways entering the city.

Looting and violent protests are threatening President Nicolas Maduro's hold on power.

“All it would take would be for the military to react violently to a protest, or just step back and let one go, and an epidemic of protests could emerge and grow out of control,” said David Smilde, senior fellow at the Washington Office on Latin America, a human rights group.

Maduro blames the looting on his opponents, who are promoting a referendum to recall him.

Looting was reported throughout the country, including Caracas, where merchants refused to open their shops.

A tense peace reigned Wednesday in Cumana — one of Venezuela’s poorest cities — following the arrival of hundreds of National Guardsmen and police. The city’s mayor decreed a three-day ban on all motorcycles, which are often used by looters to flee. More than 170 people were detained.

Maduro sent a trusted aide, Freddy Bernal, the former mayor of the Libertador borough of Caracas, to the city to evaluate the situation. “The people, the PSUV (Maduro’s United Socialist Party of Venezuela) and the government are united to neutralize the fascists,” Bernal tweeted.

National newspapers also reported that angry protesters Tuesday night torched the local headquarters of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela in the western city of Lagunillas, while attacking the city hall. The actions took place after promised deliveries of powdered milk never arrived, infuriating residents who had waited all day in line.

Protests and looting has soared as Venezuela’s food crisis mounts. The Venezuelan Observatory of Violence, a human rights organization, said more than 10 cases of looting are erupting daily now.


“The looting is going to continue because there’s hunger,” Roberto Briceno Leon, director of the organization, told the Associated Press. “The government’s response appears to be insufficient or politicized, so people are resorting to robbery.”

Venezuela’s opposition blames the economic policies of Maduro, and his iconic predecessor, Hugo Chavez, for a collapsing economy and soaring inflation.

To avoid a debt default this year, the government has slashed imports to save foreign currency. It has created food and medicine shortages. Venezuela, which has the world’s largest oil reserves, imports about 70% of the food it consumes.

“My neighbors are only eating green bananas and mangoes to survive,” said Carmen Lopez, a community organizer outside this central industrial city. “People are hungry. People are desperate. They have nothing else to eat.”

Bakeries here in La Victoria, 55 miles southwest of Caracas, are now open but had stopped producing bread in May because there is no flour.

"People are hunting dogs and cats in the streets, and pigeons in the plazas to eat," Ramon Muchacho, mayor of the Caracas district of Chacao, said last month in a tweet that was reported in many newspapers.

The government has sought to blunt the protests by distributing bags of essential food to residents. The effort has been plagued by a slow start-up and charges of corruption. The government is also urging its supporters in cities to plant gardens to raise food.

The crisis goes beyond food.

International airlines are pulling out of the country because the country is barring them from taking earnings out of the country, and most of the country faces daily three-hour cuts in electricity service.

Venezuelans also can’t call out of the country on their mobile phones, and thousands of medical operations have been postponed due to a lack of supplies.

Against the backdrop of Venezuela’s worst economic crisis in recent history, government officials continue to claim that there isn’t enough time to hold a referendum to recall Maduro this year. If the vote is postponed until 2017 and goes against Maduro, his vice president would finish the rest of his term, which ends in 2019. If the vote is held this year and Maduro loses, fresh presidential elections would be held. Polls suggest that Maduro would lose any recall vote by a hefty margin.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/06/15/venezuela-protests-lootings/85939072/
 
I sort of feel like denying the aid should be considered a crime against humanity if the situation does not improve.
 
I'll be here for you with open arms. Just curious, how bad will this economy have to get before I get your concession?
Is this the part where you tell me there will be hyperinflation soon due to fiat money? Maybe that we should all stock up on gold because of intrinsic value. Gonna need a tinfoil hat and guns too.
 
They shit the bed. As horrible as it sounds they really need to sleep a night or two in it to ensure it doesn't happen again. History will write this as one of the most easily predicted humanitarian crisis of all time and yet the people who it affects are completely oblivious.
 

An article from a blind ideologue doesn't change reality.

Saying the situation in Venezuela is a commentary on democratic socialism is the substantive equivalent of saying the situation in Somalia is a commentary on free-market capitalism.

Let's get intellectually honest. If we want to compare capitalism to democratic socialism (the Sanders' model*) let's talk about the difference in outcomes between the US and a country like Sweden or Denmark.

These are still imperfect representations of the two economic philosophies but there would at least be some meat on such a bone. The Venezuela comparisons are nothing but pot shots from crack pots.



* And, as Chomsky rightly noted, regardless of what Bernie chooses to call himself, his entire economic platform is firmly in the tradition of the New Deal democrats.

Sanders is a New Deal, progressive democrat. In contrast to Clinton, a corporatist, neoliberal democrat - the ideology of the current DNC establishment.
 

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