Volk Han vs Rickson Gracie...

[Mbetz1981]

Many posts yet not one truthful one.

The result is obvious:

Rickson via armbar

Sambists seems to rely on explosive power based techniques, against a technician like Rickson that just plays into his game.

Maybe at first he'll have trouble, but once the fight goes past 3-4 mins, it's all Rickson.

it'll look like Werdum/Erikson

Rickson may have won, but Volk Han would be a most troublesome opponent for him. If you watch choke, (the documentary that covers Rickson throughout VTJ95), then you will see that Rickson complains to Royler about head/neck pain and seems to be very frustrated, after his fight with Yoshihisa Yamamoto, and all that guy did was cling to the ropes for 20mins.

You may also rembemer Nobuhiko Takada rocking Rickson pretty hard with a knee in their 2nd fight, and he was nowhere near Hans league.

Also, as someone else pointed out... Volk Han went the distance with Big Nog, so a smaller Rickson may not have been able to pull it off.

Either way... A good match up.

 

[Escabar]

I think Volk Han would take this, certainly be Rickson biggest test and notably bigger and stronger as well as an elite grappler with a better take down game. Although could see Volk Han being overly aggressive going for a sub and leaving himself in a bad spot which Rickson could capitalize on. Wish more of these pioneer crossed paths back in the day so many quality fights we missed out on.

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

I was pondering recently, and suddenly it hit me.. What if, instead of Yosihisa Yamamoto, Rings sent master samboist Volk Han to represent them at the Vale Tudo Japan 95 event?

I think it would have been a great match up regardless of who won, but I honestly think Volk Han would have ko'd or executed some esoteric victory-roll knee bar variation on Rickson.

Thoughts?

what makes u think it would end by KO?

 

[Mbetz1981]

what makes u think it would end by KO?

what makes u think it would end by KO?

After looking closely at Ricksons fights, I don't think he takes getting hit very well. Takada rocked him during their 2nd fight, and Han would probably be a lot more brutal in a gnp situation

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

After looking closely at Ricksons fights, I don't think he takes getting hit very well. Takada rocked him during their 2nd fight, and Han would probably be a lot more brutal in a gnp situation

Im pretty sure Han would look for an opening on the ground, more into a sub attempt...

I presume u envision this match-up at Vale Tudo Japan 1995... I cant recall if it was a no-time limit situation or not...

 

[Mbetz1981]

Im pretty sure Han would look for an opening on the ground, more into a sub attempt...

I presume u envision this match-up at Vale Tudo Japan 1995... I cant recall if it was a no-time limit situation or not...

I agree that Han would be looking for a submission, but based on my observation that Rickson doesen't take getting hit very well, I could imagine that, taking strikes from a larger opponent in Volk could be a deciding factor.

As for VTJ95... I believe it was no time limit, but an unlimited about of 10 min (?) rounds. Yoshihisa Yamamoto survived round 1 in a shameful spectacule of rope clinging, so there were rounds involved.

 

[cabal]

Well he was a pro wrestler, he had not the habit of fighting for real just like Yoji Anjo. Against Gracie this could be a disadvantage .

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

I agree that Han would be looking for a submission, but based on my observation that Rickson doesen't take getting hit very well, I could imagine that, taking strikes from a larger opponent in Volk could be a deciding factor.

As for VTJ95... I believe it was no time limit, but an unlimited about of 10 min (?) rounds. Yoshihisa Yamamoto survived round 1 in a shameful spectacule of rope clinging, so there were rounds involved.

It´s not that Rickson "doesen't take getting hit very well"...

Rickson was realistically a MW, that´s something people tend to forget when they throw him around against huge HWs.

Besides,I doubt it :back in the days, dudes who were masters at somethin´ like Han with leglocks would find a way to lock it.

Jus´like Ruas against Maurice, once they get on top, they try to go for a leg lock.

 

[Mbetz1981]

It´s not that Rickson "doesen't take getting hit very well"...

Rickson was realistically a MW, that´s something people tend to forget when they throw him around against huge HWs.

Besides,I doubt it :back in the days, dudes who were masters at somethin´ like Han with leglocks would find a way to lock it.

Jus´like Ruas against Maurice, once they get on top, they try to go for a leg lock.

I agree with you. I think Han would be looking for a leg Submission. But if he found himself in a situation where he was stuck in a clinch, or in Ricksons guard, then I could see Rickson getting pounded... assuming Han was aggressive.

In all of Ricksons fights... the only time I recall a fighter really striking him, was in his 2nd fight with takada, which didn't go well for him. I'm just saying that Han possibly pounding him, could be a factor in this match up, not the most likely outcome.

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

I was pondering recently, and suddenly it hit me.. What if, instead of Yosihisa Yamamoto, Rings sent master samboist Volk Han to represent them at the Vale Tudo Japan 95 event?

I think it would have been a great match up regardless of who won, but I honestly think Volk Han would have ko'd or executed some esoteric victory-roll knee bar variation on Rickson.

Thoughts?

Rolling knee bar I love it

Funaki first fighter that I know that pulled it off on fight mma

 

[Mbetz1981]

Rolling knee bar I love it

Funaki first fighter that I know that pulled it off on fight mma

Funaki was very slick with the leg attacks! Many Japanese shooto fighters, before him, loved the heel hooks/ankle locks, etc, but I don't recall anyone rolling into them in mma, until funaki.

 

[teddy078]

Come on, Gracies knew how to defend leg locks. They had rivalry against Luta Livre for decades, it's not like they never fought catch wrestlers before birth of MMA.

 

[JacJeanFinger]

Funaki was very slick with the leg attacks! Many Japanese shooto fighters, before him, loved the heel hooks/ankle locks, etc, but I don't recall anyone rolling into them in mma, until funaki.

This is probably the first complete world-level Sambo instruction book ever written in the western world, if not the world. Russian instructor (former world champion like Rickson of Sambo) and Satoru Sayama broke down many Sambo fundamental moves with detailed photo illustrations. This book came out in the middle of UWF first generation boom, so I assume in 1984. Funaki was still in his middle school and Ken Shamrock was living in the Shamrock valley bunny ranch.

Funaki is often credited as the first MMA guy to use healhook around in 1989. But I'm hearing from many people that heal hook was a very common technique that was used in NJPW dojo during 1970's. Rolling kneebar was both Sambo and Japanese Jiu-Jitsu move before Volk Han made it famous in RINGS. Funaki might have learned it from Japanese Sambo players if you saw him performing it before Han.

 

[Mbetz1981]

Grac

This is probably the first complete world-level Sambo instruction book ever written in the western world, if not the world. Russian instructor (former world champion like Rickson of Sambo) and Satoru Sayama broke down many Sambo fundamental moves with detailed photo illustrations. This book came out in the middle of UWF first generation boom, so I assume in 1984. Funaki was still in his middle school and Ken Shamrock was living in the Shamrock valley bunny ranch.

Funaki is often credited as the first MMA guy to use healhook around in 1989. But I'm hearing from many people that heal hook was a very common technique that was used in NJPW dojo during 1970's. Rolling kneebar was both Sambo and Japanese Jiu-Jitsu move before Volk Han made it famous in RINGS. Funaki might have learned it from Japanese Sambo players if you saw him performing it before Han.

You're absolutely right in that all of these leg attacks were well established before funaki hit the scene. And Sayama has a lot to do with it. Most of the shooto guys coming up in the early 90s were trained by him, and watching early shooto, one sees a lot of leg attacks.

However I simply don't recall a mma match where an attempt at a rolling kneebar was tried untill funaki did it. I could be wrong, my shooto collection prior to 94 is spotty, so I may have missed some obscure Japanese fighter try one.

Also my Rings collection goes from 95 on up, so I may have missed Volk Han trying one on a worked match, (or another early Rings performer), but I'm not counting worked/semi-worked bouts.

Since we're on the subject... Mma owes a LOT to Satoru Sayama. He really is the father of modern mma,and gets almost no credit. Shooto guys were at least a decade ahead of American fighters... back in 93.

 

[JacJeanFinger]

Han, Kopylov, and Zuev started competing in RINGS around 1992 and they were also teaching Japanese fighters in the network. So rolling kneebar/leglock were already in regular use before Pancrase.

Flying scissor to leglock is not something Chonan invented during the Anderson fight. It was frequently seen in the original UWF (84-85). But I don't recall someone using rolling kneebar before Han demonstrated in RINGS.

Speaking of Japanese Sambo, I remember it was in 1985 or 86 that Sayama was rumored to compete All-Japan Sambo championship. (They were still referring him as "Tiger Mask") I was watching Sunday evening Sport News on TV and Sambo National result was coming up (few knew the soviet word "sambo" back then and it could not have been televised without having something to do with Tiger Mask.) They said Sayama's entry was denied due to his professional career in wrestling and he made his comment in 20 second video clip captured by the TV crew at the event in Tokyo.

Following year, Japanese Amateur combat sport committee announced that they will allow Yoshiaki Yatsu of NJPW to compete in Free Style wrestling championship and Yatsu won the gold.

 

[Mbetz1981]

Can you think of a shoot fight, (before Funaki), where a rolling kneebar was used? There may be, but I can't think of one.

I don't count Rings pre 95, as most of it was works from the 91-95 era.

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

Funaki was very slick with the leg attacks! Many Japanese shooto fighters, before him, loved the heel hooks/ankle locks, etc, but I don't recall anyone rolling into them in mma, until funaki.

Funaki and Suzuki were masters

Fujiwara taught them would have loved to see him fight