Television WACO Starring Taylor Kitsch, Michael Shannon

I am very interested in this show. It was seriously mishandled by the ATF, but Koresh was a con man and a monster.
 
It's amazing to me how the two fuck ups went hand in hand so close together.

ATF totally screws the pooch initially and then FBI shows up and makes shit worse. HRT kills Weavers wife at Ruby Ridge and then burns down the Branch Davidians complex, killing a huge amount in the process.
It is simply mind boggling how the government fkd up so bad on two separate incidents one right after the other.
 
Just got caught up with eps 2 and 3. I thought both were better than the first ep. This is shaping up to be a better show I thought it might be.

They are being very fair to Koresh and, just as importantly, are calling the government out on their bullshit. I'm actually surprised by how hard they are going after the government but I'm glad that they are.

This is a good show, fairly balanced, and Kitsch is killing it as Koresh.
 
Just got caught up with eps 2 and 3. I thought both were better than the first ep. This is shaping up to be a better show I thought it might be.

They are being very fair to Koresh and, just as importantly, are calling the government out on their bullshit. I'm actually surprised by how hard they are going after the government but I'm glad that they are.

This is a good show, fairly balanced, and Kitsch is killing it as Koresh.
How they portrayed the government is what I was really curious about. After the first episode I had an idea but wasn't sure.... im glad they kept up with it the way they did.
 
I think this show is great, it shows how crazy things can get without a real thought out plan. Not only is Kitsch is killing it as Koresh, but he sounds just like Luke Perry the entire time.
 
Just got caught up with eps 2 and 3. I thought both were better than the first ep. This is shaping up to be a better show I thought it might be.

They are being very fair to Koresh and, just as importantly, are calling the government out on their bullshit. I'm actually surprised by how hard they are going after the government but I'm glad that they are.

This is a good show, fairly balanced, and Kitsch is killing it as Koresh.

<DisgustingHHH>
 
How they portrayed the government is what I was really curious about. After the first episode I had an idea but wasn't sure.... im glad they kept up with it the way they did.

The interesting thing is that the show is based on a book by the negotiator--himself a government agent--but I guess the producers really latched onto the concerns he had about the way the situation was handled, because they've made the ATF out to be a huge bunch of assholes.
 
"Fair" =/= "complex"

Well again, an UNFAIR portrait would just be to make him out to be some raving sociopathic lunatic. The typical "crazy cult leader." Instead, I think the producers are going for a two-sides-to-every-story approach, which I would characterize as fair.
 
Well again, an UNFAIR portrait would just be to make him out to be some raving sociopathic lunatic. The typical "crazy cult leader." Instead, I think the producers are going for a two-sides-to-every-story approach, which I would characterize as fair.
Yeahhhh, the whole "show both sides" thing can be seen as a form of validation. There's no need for it. Koresh was absolute garbage.
 
Yeahhhh, the whole "show both sides" thing can be seen as a form of validation. There's no need for it. Koresh was absolute garbage.

I think a bit question is how much Koresh actually believed in himself and his own teachings. A person who really believes in the Kool-Aid they're giving out is more sympathetic to me than someone who is an intentional fraud.

The show is not really shying away from some of the more sordid aspects of the story, like his rule where only he gets to fuck all the women and how he married a 14-year-old girl. I just think it's telling that story in a way that buys into the sincerity of the people at Mt Carmel.

One thing that is interesting is that even today some of the people who were involved with that whole thing still believe in what they were doing there.
 
I think a bit question is how much Koresh actually believed in himself and his own teachings. A person who really believes in the Kool-Aid they're giving out is more sympathetic to me than someone who is an intentional fraud.

The show is not really shying away from some of the more sordid aspects of the story, like his rule where only he gets to fuck all the women and how he married a 14-year-old girl. I just think it's telling that story in a way that buys into the sincerity of the people at Mt Carmel.

One thing that is interesting is that even today some of the people who were involved with that whole thing still believe in what they were doing there.
I think Koresh was a crazy, power hungry sack in love with himself and also a child rapist, yo. It's very possible to demonstrate the complexity of a situation or life without indicating or suggesting you should feel sympathy for someone that did terrible things; I think this show failed in that regard. Nobody should ever have sympathy for that guy.
 
I think Koresh was a crazy, power hungry sack in love with himself and also a child rapist, yo. It's very possible to demonstrate the complexity of a situation or life without indicating or suggesting you should feel sympathy for someone that did terrible things; I think this show failed in that regard. Nobody should ever have sympathy for that guy.

Let me ask you this, how do you feel about the way the government handled the whole situation?
 
The interesting thing is that the show is based on a book by the negotiator--himself a government agent--but I guess the producers really latched onto the concerns he had about the way the situation was handled, because they've made the ATF out to be a huge bunch of assholes.
It’s a normal interpretation. I lived in Waco, and despite the overwhelming Christian population that would be critical and concerned with the Koresh, everyone know the government bottled it.
My understanding is that it was a critical time for the ATF and FBI (or whatever), and that this was a way to sort of come down hard and make an example of someone to win back public trust.

Also, none of this happened in Waco.

And what’s complex is, Shadow pointed out, HOW it was handled. A lot of people died. A lot of innocent people. Doesn’t matter how brainwashed and evil Koresh was, children don’t deserve to die like that, and various authorities in Waco and Robinson who knew the people offered ideas as to how to catch Koresh without violence. All of it was ignored
 
It’s a normal interpretation. I lived in Waco, and despite the overwhelming Christian population that would be critical and concerned with the Koresh, everyone know the government bottled it.
My understanding is that it was a critical time for the ATF and FBI (or whatever), and that this was a way to sort of come down hard and make an example of someone to win back public trust.

Also, none of this happened in Waco.

Yeah, my point was more along the lines of how a government agent (or I'm sure FORMER government agent at this point) is the primary source for a show that is so critical of the government. But of course he is the main guy in the show who is being really critical of the way the situation is being handled, so I guess he turned those concerns into a book.
 

What I'm asking is, what are you basing your conclusions about him on? Because everything out there seems to contradict everything else. You've got Janet Reno saying she ok'd the assault because the ATF told her children were being abused. Then you've got the ATF saying they never told her any such thing, and there was no evidence of child abuse. You've got people saying the FBI opened fire first, you've got people saying the Waco people opened fire first. They can't even agree on who started the fires that burned everything. So I ask you, what are you basing your conclusions on?


Btw I'm NOT saying you're wrong about him. Who knows for sure? But I know that the public has never gotten the entire story and likely never will. They've only gotten tainted stories by all sides that are trying to cover their own asses.
 
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