Television WACO Starring Taylor Kitsch, Michael Shannon

Yeah, my point was more along the lines of how a government agent (or I'm sure FORMER government agent at this point) is the primary source for a show that is so critical of the government. But of course he is the main guy in the show who is being really critical of the way the situation is being handled, so I guess he turned those concerns into a book.
I'm not sure if this is dealt with in the show, as I only made it through most of the first episode, but apparently someone thought it would be a good idea to tell the Davidians that the government was in possession of the "seven seals" or whatever crazy religious artifact the Davidians were obsessed with. Like, the negotiators told them that they had the damn things. It's somewhere in the report I have, although I can't remember the details without looking it up.
 
What I'm asking is, what are you basing your conclusions about him on? Because everything out there seems to contradict everything else. You've got Janet Reno saying she ok'd the assault because the ATF told her children were being abused. Then you've got the ATF saying they never told her any such thing, and there was no evidence of child abuse. You've got people saying the FBI opened fire first, you've got people saying the Waco people opened fire first. They can't even agree on who started the fires that burned everything. So I ask you, what are you basing your conclusions on?


Btw I'm NOT saying you're wrong about him. Who knows for sure? But I know that the public has never gotten the entire story and likely never will. They've only gotten tainted stories by all sides that are trying to cover their own asses.
My conclusion that Koresh was a scumbag?
 
Yeah, my point was more along the lines of how a government agent (or I'm sure FORMER government agent at this point) is the primary source for a show that is so critical of the government. But of course he is the main guy in the show who is being really critical of the way the situation is being handled, so I guess he turned those concerns into a book.
Yeah, added another bit to clarify
 
I'm not sure if this is dealt with in the show, as I only made it through most of the first episode, but apparently someone thought it would be a good idea to tell the Davidians that the government was in possession of the "seven seals" or whatever crazy religious artifact the Davidians were obsessed with. Like, the negotiators told them that they had the damn things. It's somewhere in the report I have, although I can't remember the details without looking it up.

That hasn't come up, at least not yet. Still have three more episodes to go so I'm sure plenty more will happen.
 
That hasn't come up, at least not yet. Still have three more episodes to go so I'm sure plenty more will happen.
It's somewhere in the official government report, which I scored at a garage sale years ago. I might try to find the passage later and post a pic. I'm probably not remembering 100% correct but the gist is accurate iirc. The negotiators fed into the delusion for some fucking reason.
 
It's somewhere in the official government report, which I scored at a garage sale years ago. I might try to find the passage later and post a pic.

That would be interesting.

I started watching this two-part documentary last night, which I have also found interesting:





I also watched this several years ago and found it very compelling:


51T1A6W43AL._SY445_.jpg
 
That would be interesting.

Particularly intetesting considering it's the official report -maximized for damage control- and still shows grotesque blundering. And the forensic details of the scene were crazy.

I've seen the A & E doc but not the other one.
 
yeah. what are you basing it on?

again, I'm not saying you're wrong.

Years of following the topic? Books, interviews, reports, etc. I suppose we could hash those out with enough time and a willingness on my part to try and litigate, but that seems pointless if you aren't disputing him having sex with children (for example).
 
What I'm asking is, what are you basing your conclusions about him on? Because everything out there seems to contradict everything else. You've got Janet Reno saying she ok'd the assault because the ATF told her children were being abused. Then you've got the ATF saying they never told her any such thing, and there was no evidence of child abuse. You've got people saying the FBI opened fire first, you've got people saying the Waco people opened fire first. They can't even agree on who started the fires that burned everything. So I ask you, what are you basing your conclusions on?


Btw I'm NOT saying you're wrong about him. Who knows for sure? But I know that the public has never gotten the entire story and likely never will. They've only gotten tainted stories by all sides that are trying to cover their own asses.

I agree with you that the situation seems very complex and complicated, which is why I mentioned earlier that I'm glad the producers of the show actually seem to want to be fair to all involved and represent everyone's perspective.
 
I've seen the A & E doc but not the other one.

You may want to give it a look. It actually won an Emmy and also was nominated for an Academy Award.

It was released in 1996 so it feels dated now but it's still really interesting. Last I looked the whole thing was available on YouTube.
 
Randy Weaver, his family, and a friend of the family.
Read up on the incident at Ruby Ridge.

Waco and Ruby Ridge are huge fk ups by the government (ATF/FBI).

Thanks I will look it up
 
I think they are making David Koresh and the Branch Davidians look a little more docile than they really were. The Branch Davidians were a bunch of shady zealots, and the show doesn't really explain Koresh's "end of the world" prophecies and preparation for a stand off with the government.
 
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This is it, the grand finale tonight. I'm not sure how they're going to be able to close this out in 50 minutes or so.
 
Felt like they really did the assault poorly. It was the culmination of the stand off and this mini series and I feel it was done like absolute shit.
 
I'm interested now though to read David Thibedeu's book and the one written by Gary Noesner
 
Last night I realized that I had watched first five episodes of this how but never did watch the sixth. So I rectified that.

I thought it was pretty good overall. Kitsch did an excellent job as Koresh, just further proving what I already knew, and that's that he's a pretty good actor.

Going into the show initially I was wondering how much they were going to emphasize how badly the government fucked up, but they definitely don't let the government off the hook here or try to portray the ATF as misunderstood heroes or any bullshit like that.

I think this is a win for the Paramount network. It was their first big production since the change-over and I think it did a pretty good job of announcing that Spike is gone and this is something new and they're really going to be emphasizing quality programming.
 
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