Social Wall Street Rule for the #MeToo Era: Avoid Women at All Cost

No answer there unless I am missing something which I am asking you to clarify.

You have said you don't always ask first.

So the question is how then 'do you always know before touching' in a way that it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to ever be wrong?

Here's what I said to cincy:

We're getting into the weeds but I would never take a girl's hand. It's too passive on her part. Instead put your hand down palm up next to hers, waggle the fingers, look at her, look at her hand, look at your hand, look back at her and 90% of the time, they take your hand. Same result except she feels like she made the decision. Makes the next steps easier.

I might be wrong about her desire or her intent but if we touch hands, it's because she took the steps to make it happen.

Returning to my earlier point. Here are rules. Tell me which ones shouldn't be there:
1) Don't touch people if they don't want to be touched.
2) Don't introduce sexuality into the work environment.
3) Keep your professional dealings strictly professional.

There's no point on the back and forth, if we can't get the rules straight.
 
Sorry, no video. Suffice to say, I had my own style, it was built around making girls take the steps that guys usually take. Force them to be proactive, not simply reactive. Convince them to chase you, not the other way around. Therefore everything feels like their decision, not yours.

We're getting into the weeds but I would never take a girl's hand. It's too passive on her part. Instead put your hand down palm up next to hers, waggle the fingers, look at her, look at her hand, look at your hand, look back at her and 90% of the time, they take your hand. Same result except she feels like she made the decision. Makes the next steps easier.
Sure her I do the same with my wiener and suddenly I’m the bad guy
 
Sure her I do the same with my wiener and suddenly I’m the bad guy
I've only known one guy who ever got away with that consistently. Bold strategy Cotton.
 
[
Woman hating (and racist) homosexual confirmed.

You realize you’ve made like a dozen posts denigrating women....you know who else does that??? Gay people. I’ll look forward to your deflection.

Are you denigrating gay people?
 
If half of what happened in Mad Men is based in truth they don't deserve to be around women anyway.
 
@MikeMcMann

Here's another simple one for kissing. Same principle. Eye contact (right eye to right eye, something about the way the brain works for holding and directing people's attention). Look at her lips, return to eye contact. If she licks her lips shortly thereafter, she's thinking about kissing you. If she doesn't, test her again later. After that, it's up to you set up the moment that forces her to meet you at least half way on the kiss. You can't lean in 100% of the way - again, it's too passive on her part.

There are all sorts of body language cues that we can rely on and use to get the girl to take an active role in the game.
 
@MikeMcMann

Here's another simple one for kissing. Same principle. Eye contact (right eye to right eye, something about the way the brain works for holding and directing people's attention). Look at her lips, return to eye contact. If she licks her lips shortly thereafter, she's thinking about kissing you. If she doesn't, test her again later. After that, it's up to you set up the moment that forces her to meet you at least half way on the kiss. You can't lean in 100% of the way - again, it's too passive on her part.

There are all sorts of body language cues that we can rely on and use to get the girl to take an active role in the game.
could you repeat all that im trying to write it down....
giphy.gif
 
@panamaican,

everything you seem to be saying is that while yhou set things up and feel you signal interest you rely on the girl to ACTUALLY make first contact.

And that is fine if you are confident and have some game and are similarly with a girl that is secure and confident.

If I have read the above wrong please clarify.

HOWEVER, most of populace is not confident, smooth or adept at flirting. Most flirting is awkward and laughable if it could be viewed by outsiders. Guys make attempts and get shut down.

So the question is do we criminalize awkwardness? The guy reads the girls signs wrong and reaches out and touches her hand (Battery) and she pulls back because she does not want it? Do we consider it a metoo offense?

IS IT OK FOR SOCIALLY AWKWARD PEOPLE TO TRY TO EVEN IF THEIR ATTEMPTS ARE SOCIALLY AWKWARD?


In my view there is this disturbing growing assumptions that guys must only give girls who want attention, the attention they want and if they end up being wrong they committed some offense. When in fact it we MUST allow guys to be able to flirt even clumsily and the expectation AS ADULTS needs to be that a woman can tell a guy it is not desired and then he will apologize and back off respectfully.

If guys like yolu tell her she was wronged before she even told him it was undesired simply via the action of him trying and it not being desired, that is a very dangerous situation.

I would say to her " he was clumsy but I think his intent was sincere and honest as was his interest in you. And he stopped and apologized the moment you let him know it was undesired" and that is all OK and how the world works. Not that 'he should never tried'.
 
could you repeat all that im trying to write it down....
giphy.gif

Just watch the Will Smith movie where he is the date doctor as he walks through and other ways to try and make the girl meet you half way.
 
Oh those virtuous wall street guys, just trying to avoid false accusations.

It’s pretty pathetic that instead of just adjusting the work climate to be less creepy there are actually men that are using this as an excuse to shun women.
I think this is about trying to prevent false #metoo's then addressing rampant sexism among those who work on wall street.
 
could you repeat all that im trying to write it down....
giphy.gif
3 location rule. Most of the time, you need to spend time in 3 different locations to create a deep sense of trust with a stranger. So, a way to accelerate a connection is to move any engagement through 3 distinct locations in a single evening. Bar hopping for example.

Every time you give someone something, you create a psychological feeling of debt to you. Even something as simple as saying "thank you" creates the debt. People in debt will be more willing to go along with your suggestions in order to pay back the "debt".

Sex and emotion are more closely linked in women than in men. Fastest way to force an emotional connection is to make an emotional reveal about yourself. The other party feels obligated to make an emotional reveal in exchange. Emotional connection in place.

In the same vein, speak in terms of feelings. "How did you feel about that movie?" instead of "Was the movie any good?"

Use words that force the brain to create mental imagery. "Can you Imagine us..." In order for the brain to process the word "imagine", it has to actually imagine the thing you're saying before it can decide if it can imagine it. Once they've imagined something then they see it as a possible truth. Crudely, "Can you imagine us fucking?" She has to imagine it in order to respond. And once she's thinking about it, you're past the barrier of if she's willing to entertain it. Mentally, it's already happened. it's just a question of letting her act on it.

Never compliment a woman's appearance. Compliment only those things she had to actively do. So, instead of complimenting how she looks in her clothes, compliment her fashion sense in putting the outfit together.

Mirroring. That's where you subtly match the movements of the other person. Everyone tells you about that. Here's what they don't tell you. Once you sync up with them, you can go from mirroring them to leading them. Once you do that, you know that they're physically tuned in to you.

Push-pull on sexual tension. So you build up to an obvious sexual point of exchange in conversation and just drop it before you get to the obvious part. Wash, rinse, repeat. This is built on the same principle from earlier where the brain has to imagine things. Your brain doesn't think in terms of words, it thinks in terms of pictures. Once you understand that, you can manipulate conversation to create imagery. By never saying the sexual stuff, when she imagines it, it feels entirely like it was her idea.

Ton of stuff. When my kid is old enough to appreciate this, he'll be my padawan.
 
That is the law bud. No one gets thrown in jail over false accusations. That's why this reeks of a culture of abuse and people who behave that way have a right to be afraid.

Like I said, men who are decent and treat women fairly don't have anything to worry about.
Its not about only getting thrown in jail bro, it is about your life, both personal and professional being totally fucked over even if you are proven innocent. That is a very real concern.
 
“those men are going to back out of a sexual harassment complaint and right into a sex discrimination complaint.”

It's all just such a blatant attempt to climb the corporate ranks by knocking off people above you with sex complaints.

Mentor me? I'll claim you assaulted me. Refuse to mentor me? I'll claim you discriminated against me.

Notice that garbage men aren't facing these issues? I wonder why it is only the multimillion dollar a year jobs that women suddenly feel so threatened at.
 
@panamaican,

everything you seem to be saying is that while yhou set things up and feel you signal interest you rely on the girl to ACTUALLY make first contact.

And that is fine if you are confident and have some game and are similarly with a girl that is secure and confident.

If I have read the above wrong please clarify.

HOWEVER, most of populace is not confident, smooth or adept at flirting. Most flirting is awkward and laughable if it could be viewed by outsiders. Guys make attempts and get shut down.

So the question is do we criminalize awkwardness? The guy reads the girls signs wrong and reaches out and touches her hand (Battery) and she pulls back because she does not want it? Do we consider it a metoo offense?

IS IT OK FOR SOCIALLY AWKWARD PEOPLE TO TRY TO EVEN IF THEIR ATTEMPTS ARE SOCIALLY AWKWARD?


In my view there is this disturbing growing assumptions that guys must only give girls who want attention, the attention they want and if they end up being wrong they committed some offense. When in fact it we MUST allow guys to be able to flirt even clumsily and the expectation AS ADULTS needs to be that a woman can tell a guy it is not desired and then he will apologize and back off respectfully.

If guys like yolu tell her she was wronged before she even told him it was undesired simply via the action of him trying and it not being desired, that is a very dangerous situation.

I would say to her " he was clumsy but I think his intent was sincere and honest as was his interest in you. And he stopped and apologized the moment you let him know it was undesired" and that is all OK and how the world works. Not that 'he should never tried'.

I got into the little details because you asked for a method that was virtually foolproof to initiate physical touching without possibly being wrong. I'm good with people because I wanted to be good with people, not just with women, and so I've studied people. I know that not everyone is running game at that level of detail. Why would they? Once you know enough to get laid, most people don't need to learn more.

But if you're not running game like that, the 3 rules I posted should be the baseline for professional behavior:
1) Don't touch people if they don't want to be touched.
2) Don't introduce sexuality into the work environment.
3) Keep your professional dealings strictly professional.

Also - confident girls are better than the shy and awkward ones. Confident girls know what they want and why they want it. And you don't rely on her to make the actual first contact, you rely on her being active in the process. You're still making the first move. Like a handshake. You don't just grab someone's hand and shake it. One person reaches out their hand and the other reaches out to take it. Then they both shake each other's hand.
 
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I got into the little details because you asked for a method that was virtually foolproof to initiate physical touching without possibly being wrong. I'm good with people because I wanted to be good with people, not just with women, and so I've studied people. I know that not everyone is running game at that level of detail. Why would they? Once you know enough to get laid, most people don't need to learn more.

But if you're not running game like that, the 3 rules I posted should be the baseline for professional behavior:
1) Don't touch people if they don't want to be touched.
2) Don't introduce sexuality into the work environment.
3) Keep your professional dealings strictly professional.
Yes but you are still relying on the woman to establish contact first (the traditional man role) or you still risk being wrong no matter how sure you are. So yes its fool proof as long as you wait for her to make contact first. You can entice,as you say you do, but you still require her to take the more traditional male role.

And there is nothing wrong with. I tease and entice some girls to make contact first too. But sometimes I am with a girl and the moment just demands I take some risk and go for it and reach across and touch her hand as I know some girls are super passive and/or submissive.

1) Your rule 1 cannot be known without always asking first so I don't agree with it. Yes again you can wait for her to do it first but then you are just requiring her to break the rule you won't break. ie you want her to be the guy.

2) dangerous to do so. I won't do it. But most relationships and marriages start there so people do. Workplaces recognize and most have rules for such engagement such as mine does

3) see 2 above. Not going to happen. Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos are not right because it worked out but wrong it if it did not.
 
I'll reply to the rest after but start here.

You never asked.
You have no basis to continue assuming that. He has not in any way I ndicated that he indeed didn't ask. Stop assuming he didn't. You are not God, you do not have the ability to read back into time and see events as they happened, or read into his heart and see his inner most being.
 
Yes but you are still relying on the woman to establish contact first (the traditional man role) or you still risk being wrong no matter how sure you are. So yes its fool proof as long as you wait for her to make contact first. You can entice,as you say you do, but you still require her to take the more traditional male role.

And there is nothing wrong with. I tease and entice some girls to make contact first too. But sometimes I am with a girl and the moment just demands I take some risk and go for it and reach across and touch her hand as I know some girls are super passive and/or submissive.

1) Your rule 1 cannot be known without always asking first so I don't agree with it. Yes again you can wait for her to do it first but then you are just requiring her to break the rule you won't break. ie you want her to be the guy.

2) dangerous to do so. I won't do it. But most relationships and marriages start there so people do. Workplaces recognize and most have rules for such engagement such as mine does

3) see 2 above. Not going to happen. Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos are not right because it worked out but wrong it if it did not.
The traditional male role? You're kidding right? Women have been initiating sexual contact with men for eternity. You asked for one specific type of method, I provided it. There are plenty of other ways to get from Point A to Point B without outright asking.

1) Can be known if you take the time to find out. Being lazy doesn't mean something cannot be known. If the person is too lazy to be certain, they shouldn't complain about the consequences of being wrong.

2) Well, if you want to risk the "Eggshell Plaintiff" go right ahead. Just don't complain about picking the wrong person.

3) Again, if you want to violate the basic rule go right ahead. That doesn't make it any less of a rule. Your answer there doesn't even address it as a rule, it just reverts to the same misapplication of your fallacy.

What should the workplace rules be instead?

1) Touch people regardless of if they want to be touched.
2) Sexualize your workers.
3) And treat your professional dealings as sexcapades.

Any office where a woman fucks her co-worker has now implicitly agreed to be sexualized by all of the other male co-workers. And any guy who fucks a co-worker is now exempt from sexual harassment charges from completely different women in the same office. Fuck one and you earn immunity, lol. <45>
 
Its not about only getting thrown in jail bro, it is about your life, both personal and professional being totally fucked over even if you are proven innocent. That is a very real concern.
Yeah, I hear you man, but I just think if you conduct yourself the right way that sort of thing is pretty rare.
 
3 location rule. Most of the time, you need to spend time in 3 different locations to create a deep sense of trust with a stranger. So, a way to accelerate a connection is to move any engagement through 3 distinct locations in a single evening. Bar hopping for example.

Every time you give someone something, you create a psychological feeling of debt to you. Even something as simple as saying "thank you" creates the debt. People in debt will be more willing to go along with your suggestions in order to pay back the "debt".

Sex and emotion are more closely linked in women than in men. Fastest way to force an emotional connection is to make an emotional reveal about yourself. The other party feels obligated to make an emotional reveal in exchange. Emotional connection in place.

In the same vein, speak in terms of feelings. "How did you feel about that movie?" instead of "Was the movie any good?"

Use words that force the brain to create mental imagery. "Can you Imagine us..." In order for the brain to process the word "imagine", it has to actually imagine the thing you're saying before it can decide if it can imagine it. Once they've imagined something then they see it as a possible truth. Crudely, "Can you imagine us fucking?" She has to imagine it in order to respond. And once she's thinking about it, you're past the barrier of if she's willing to entertain it. Mentally, it's already happened. it's just a question of letting her act on it.

Never compliment a woman's appearance. Compliment only those things she had to actively do. So, instead of complimenting how she looks in her clothes, compliment her fashion sense in putting the outfit together.

Mirroring. That's where you subtly match the movements of the other person. Everyone tells you about that. Here's what they don't tell you. Once you sync up with them, you can go from mirroring them to leading them. Once you do that, you know that they're physically tuned in to you.

Push-pull on sexual tension. So you build up to an obvious sexual point of exchange in conversation and just drop it before you get to the obvious part. Wash, rinse, repeat. This is built on the same principle from earlier where the brain has to imagine things. Your brain doesn't think in terms of words, it thinks in terms of pictures. Once you understand that, you can manipulate conversation to create imagery. By never saying the sexual stuff, when she imagines it, it feels entirely like it was her idea.

Ton of stuff. When my kid is old enough to appreciate this, he'll be my padawan.
i was joking mate, but if your rather clinical/ pick up artisty list helped you bag mrs panamaican , who am i to argue, congrats
 
I never said I had to ask but I always made sure. I never acted without knowing. There are plenty of ways to get certainty without having to forthright ask. And sure there were times I was wrong about what someone wanted (we've all been turned down at some point) but I didn't touch someone first to find out. And I didn't escalate the conversation into a sexual space without being sure.

Of course, guys make the first move most of the time. Yes, women expect it. Now think that through. If women expect you to make the first move then do you think women might have a way of letting you know when they want you to do so? Of course they do, they don't expect you to guess. The only real question is if the guy is patient enough and attentive enough to wait for that signal or if they rush ahead without it.

We keep coming back to the very basic concept - do not touch someone until you know that they are okay with being touched.

Do you agree with that basic concept or not?

Sorry I never replied to this rest of this.

No we do not seem to agree on the basic concept. And while I think that you will jump on that and try to use it without the proper context I will now explain the proper context.

The reason we do not seem to agree is over your use of the "know". You say "Do not touch someone until you "know" that they are okay with being touched".

You are using "know" in a way that is both literal and not and that is a problem.

You have already admitted you do not ask her if she is ok with touch. You do not verbalize it.

But you have also detailed you use a number of tactics to try and "ensure" she desires the touch but you want to equate "ensure" to "know" and they are not the same thing. You might feel confident with 99% certainty that she has given you all the signals to proceed and yet end up wrong. And if you do end up wrong, if you are not infallible, then by your rules you are no better than the guy who did nothing first and just reached out and touched her because you both touched someone who did not want it, you both committed battery. And you consoling yourself with 'but... but... i really truly thought she wanted me to touch her' is meaningless at that point. You should not have touched until you KNEW for sure she wanted.

So if you won't ask her, then that ONLY leaves, trying to entice her to make the first move and touch you first. Asking her to take the risk of battery because you won't do it first because you are scared of the ramifications of an accusation. That is literally the only way to KNOW for sure if you don't ask.
 
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