We need a judo thread.

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Dislocated shoulder- 3 months of judo therapist massages, acupuncture, electricity treatment and I was ready enough to fight MMA. A year later, still 90% mobility, compared to the other shoulder...
Dislocated collar bone- took roughly half year...
 
A reminder to judo beginners; don't push hard, concentrate on falling right...

YUUUUP.

It's just like BJJ; don't let a fall/submission make you feel defeated. Flow with it and learn from the experience.
 
Hey Judokas, just wanted to introduce myself. Our bjj gym recently merged (more like bought out another gym) and to our delight there was a Judo team that runs a program at the new school for 2 nights a week. I took my first class this week and was really surprised how athletic and fast paced the class was. I've doing bjj for two years yet I was the only person in the Judo class huffing and puffing.

Can't wait til I'll no longer have to pull guard!

Cheers all.
 
Been doing BJJ for about a month now. The "introductory" price is over, and I think I am heading back to my Judo dojo.

Why?

Well...the cost is one factor. The BJJ class is 5x more per year than the Judo club.

Another factor is that I like to do standup as well as roll. In the month or so I was in BJJ we did standup one time and everyone tried to pull guard. I understand BJJ focuses on newaza, it was just boring to start from my knees all the time.

Finally, I am a bit more stoked to study with the Sensei at the Judo club. He is a 7th dan and accomplished competitor. I enjoyed my first foray at his club, and look forward to more.

I hope I can still roll at the BJJ club a few times a month.
 
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Freestyle Judo reminds me some of the old Judo matches I watched from on Youtube from 70's & 80's were you could initiate attacks to the legs and more newaza time.:icon_chee
 
judo doesnt make any sence to me in the olympic can someone explain it plz.
 
Ok sorry for such a broad and probably unanswerable question but after 2 months of Judo I am having the hardest time getting into the flow of randori. Due to wrestling and jitz training I have pretty good defense but I cannot seem to get into an offensive flow. Is there something I can do to help this besides more randori like a drill or something? Sorry to be a whiny B but, its starting to frustrate me to a point where I am letting people throw me just so I can feel like I am flowing with something rather then feeling stiff and just powering through everything. Thanks even if the only answer is more randori. I think I just needed to vent.
 
Ok sorry for such a broad and probably unanswerable question but after 2 months of Judo I am having the hardest time getting into the flow of randori. Due to wrestling and jitz training I have pretty good defense but I cannot seem to get into an offensive flow. Is there something I can do to help this besides more randori like a drill or something? Sorry to be a whiny B but, its starting to frustrate me to a point where I am letting people throw me just so I can feel like I am flowing with something rather then feeling stiff and just powering through everything. Thanks even if the only answer is more randori. I think I just needed to vent.

You are going to have like 5 throws total in your judo career that are effortless and flowing. Every other one wiill be ugly looking and will require power and technique to pull off. You just gotta be patient because the learning curve in judo is so much harder than jujitsu (never took wrestling wouldn't know how to compare)

Don't just give up and be thrown in randori. You will never learn a damn thing as far as offense. You have to learn that once you commmit to a throw you commit 100% and nothing less.

The only way to get better at throwing people is randori, followed by more randori, and then finish it off with some more randori.

Edit. Also dude you've been in judo for 2 months. No one becomes Koga or Kimura overnight.
 
Ok sorry for such a broad and probably unanswerable question but after 2 months of Judo I am having the hardest time getting into the flow of randori. Due to wrestling and jitz training I have pretty good defense but I cannot seem to get into an offensive flow. Is there something I can do to help this besides more randori like a drill or something? Sorry to be a whiny B but, its starting to frustrate me to a point where I am letting people throw me just so I can feel like I am flowing with something rather then feeling stiff and just powering through everything. Thanks even if the only answer is more randori. I think I just needed to vent.

The key, really, is to relax. Not just relax your muscles, but relax your mind. Realize that getting thrown is fine, and go from there.

One of the biggest things I see in my class is that students are SO concerned about not getting thrown, that they can't relax enough to be offensive. Think of a boxer who was super defensive. How many punches would they actually get to throw if they never stopped covering up? Sooner or later you have to get comfortable with the fact that you're going to get hit if you're going to throw punches. It's no different in Judo.

The same thing happens in ground work, be it in BJJ, Judo or any other kind of grappling. The worst thing in the world, for most people, is getting submitted. The reality, however, is that unless you're getting submitted, you're probably not improving at the rate you could/should be.

You have a wrestling and BJJ background, and say you have "good defense." Perhaps you are something resembling this guy from the "What grappler are YOU?" thread:

"Takada Guy:
His one goal is to not tap under any circumstances, considering that lasting is almost like winning. This guy mounts no offense at all and concentrates exclusively on tucking in all his extremities and 'nullifying' your game. After a round of wasting your time and his, will give you the "you couldn't tap me, so we're about even in skill" look and gasp his way to the sidelines to sit the next roll out."

Now that's not an insult. I see a LOT of people who practice their stand-up like this. It's simply a matter of getting comfortable.

Relax. Take what presents itself to you. Getting thrown is not the end of the world. I allow people to move freely without stiff-arming, etc. I consider every attack they make to be an opportunity for me to learn.
 
^^ Great advice. Once you relax and let if flow, you won't beleive how much you can learn from getting thrown as well.
 
The key, really, is to relax. Not just relax your muscles, but relax your mind. Realize that getting thrown is fine, and go from there.

One of the biggest things I see in my class is that students are SO concerned about not getting thrown, that they can't relax enough to be offensive. Think of a boxer who was super defensive. How many punches would they actually get to throw if they never stopped covering up? Sooner or later you have to get comfortable with the fact that you're going to get hit if you're going to throw punches. It's no different in Judo.

The same thing happens in ground work, be it in BJJ, Judo or any other kind of grappling. The worst thing in the world, for most people, is getting submitted. The reality, however, is that unless you're getting submitted, you're probably not improving at the rate you could/should be.

You have a wrestling and BJJ background, and say you have "good defense." Perhaps you are something resembling this guy from the "What grappler are YOU?" thread:

"Takada Guy:
His one goal is to not tap under any circumstances, considering that lasting is almost like winning. This guy mounts no offense at all and concentrates exclusively on tucking in all his extremities and 'nullifying' your game. After a round of wasting your time and his, will give you the "you couldn't tap me, so we're about even in skill" look and gasp his way to the sidelines to sit the next roll out."

Now that's not an insult. I see a LOT of people who practice their stand-up like this. It's simply a matter of getting comfortable.

Relax. Take what presents itself to you. Getting thrown is not the end of the world. I allow people to move freely without stiff-arming, etc. I consider every attack they make to be an opportunity for me to learn.

No insult taken. Good advice for sure. I guess it will come in time. Thanks again for the help. I will keep you all updated on my progress.
 
You are going to have like 5 throws total in your judo career that are effortless and flowing. Every other one wiill be ugly looking and will require power and technique to pull off. You just gotta be patient because the learning curve in judo is so much harder than jujitsu (never took wrestling wouldn't know how to compare)

Don't just give up and be thrown in randori. You will never learn a damn thing as far as offense. You have to learn that once you commmit to a throw you commit 100% and nothing less.

The only way to get better at throwing people is randori, followed by more randori, and then finish it off with some more randori.

Edit. Also dude you've been in judo for 2 months. No one becomes Koga or Kimura overnight.

I must totally lack confidence in my throws because when I a shooting in for takedowns I commit and drive but once I go in for a judo throw once I feel like its not right I give up. I have to train myself to keep driving and commit so I feel what I have to do to finish.
 
I must totally lack confidence in my throws because when I a shooting in for takedowns I commit and drive but once I go in for a judo throw once I feel like its not right I give up. I have to train myself to keep driving and commit so I feel what I have to do to finish.

this is a big difference in judo vs wrestling thou

the commitment in judo is just the initial part, after that physics take over

wrestling the commitment has more strength behind it

there is is a reason to why judo (and bjj) has got all this philosophy behind it, you know use the others force against them, Seiryoku Zenyo (principle of maximum efficieny/minimal effort)

the philosphy in wrestling seems much more, grind, outpower, impose your will

don't get me wrong, it is still technique but different, the power in the takedowns in judo are less powered by you then in wrestling. of course there are elements of both in each sport but still there is a vital difference

the most hardcore judo snobs (yes Darkslide I am looking at you) would look at rhadi and his double legs and say that is not good judo, a wrestler would just be like: cool double

In a good judo technique you shouldn't need to drive or commit, everything is already in motion, sure you help it along some but it is different. maybe I can't explain it well but there is a difference
 
this is a big difference in judo vs wrestling thou

the commitment in judo is just the initial part, after that physics take over

wrestling the commitment has more strength behind it

there is is a reason to why judo (and bjj) has got all this philosophy behind it, you know use the others force against them, Seiryoku Zenyo (principle of maximum efficieny/minimal effort)

the philosphy in wrestling seems much more, grind, outpower, impose your will

don't get me wrong, it is still technique but different, the power in the takedowns in judo are less powered by you then in wrestling. of course there are elements of both in each sport but still there is a vital difference

the most hardcore judo snobs (yes Darkslide I am looking at you) would look at rhadi and his double legs and say that is not good judo, a wrestler would just be like: cool double

In a good judo technique you shouldn't need to drive or commit, everything is already in motion, sure you help it along some but it is different. maybe I can't explain it well but there is a difference

Yeah that's what I mean by not being in the flow. I just power and muscle everything and from jiu jitsu I have learned that this is not helpful in the long run. i think hearing from everyone has justified my lack of success in randori. It seems that what I have practiced in the past may be working against me right now. Once my body learns to relax then maybe I can use my past experience to enhance my ability in Judo.
 
espionage3

I think what might help you, and many in general, is to step back a bit from Randori and shift to Nagekomi. If you aren't familiar with the term, it translates almost directly to "throwing practice", which isn't much help, but what it is is the bridge between static Uchikomi and fully resisting, live Randori. In Nagekomi, you usually throw each and every time with Uke giving you the level and type of resistance you need or want to work on. Let's say you wanted to work on Tai Otoshi (my current project), you might trade 5 throws in a row with your partner, as slow or as fast as you want but only as fast as you can go with really good technique. Then you start moving around the mat to introduce more realism, with Uke not really resisting but not giving it to you either. Doing the throws on the move is how they are actually done, and it changes the situation so very much, yet so many people try to jump straight from standing, un-resisting Uchikomi to full-strength Randori with no middle step.

You must do this part for a long, long time before they start to feel really effortless and natural (may take more than a few whole practice sessions) but it has dramatic effects on your comfort ability and allows you to slow down and zero in on the mistakes in your game that need to be overcome. This is a really good time to video yourself as well and review. You simply won't believe how clear your mistakes become when you sit down and watch yourself. "Holy crap, look at my feet placement", "WTF am I doing with my sleeve hand, it's just hanging there like a limp noodle!", "Oh I see, I'm getting way too close to Uke and jamming myself up!". Of course the best is to do this practice with someone who is great at that technique, who can feel what's off, explain it to you on the spot and show you how they do it right on their turn, and try to get you solving that issue before you're both too tired to continue. I have made what feels like months of progress on a throw in a night just doing this.

There's another term I cannot remember which also means a set defense or reaction for the Nagekomi as well. You can get Uke to play the whole time very bent over and defensive with the stiff-arms, or ask them to simply try to avoid without blocking, or even try to counter in a certain way. Maybe you let them get a certain grip on you that you have had trouble overcoming. This is very helpful if there's a defense or situation you have been brick-walling with.

Anyway, hopefully you can see the use in this. It just takes reps, reps, reps, and conscious development. I try not to go a single session without Nagekomi now, can't imagine going without it for the rest of my Judo career.

Here's some good Nagekomi on tape, the first one being one that I have been referencing for my Tai Otoshi work.



And of course, you can just do it back and forth trading throws as they come up, but that's typically more something to do at a higher level.




In any case, what I have heard from a few sensei's I really respect is that you get your most learning out of Nage Komi and "50%-60%" Randori than you do anything else. Just like you don't go all tournament spaz in regular rolling.
 
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this is a big difference in judo vs wrestling thou

the commitment in judo is just the initial part, after that physics take over

wrestling the commitment has more strength behind it

there is is a reason to why judo (and bjj) has got all this philosophy behind it, you know use the others force against them, Seiryoku Zenyo (principle of maximum efficieny/minimal effort)

the philosphy in wrestling seems much more, grind, outpower, impose your will

don't get me wrong, it is still technique but different, the power in the takedowns in judo are less powered by you then in wrestling. of course there are elements of both in each sport but still there is a vital difference

the most hardcore judo snobs (yes Darkslide I am looking at you) would look at rhadi and his double legs and say that is not good judo, a wrestler would just be like: cool double

In a good judo technique you shouldn't need to drive or commit, everything is already in motion, sure you help it along some but it is different. maybe I can't explain it well but there is a difference

Haha, Rhadi's double is amazing. The way he implements it, however, is awful Judo. :)
 
espionage3

I think what might help you, and many in general, is to step back a bit from Randori and shift to Nagekomi. If you aren't familiar with the term, it translates almost directly to "throwing practice", which isn't much help, but what it is is the bridge between static Uchikomi and fully resisting, live Randori. In Nagekomi, you usually throw each and every time with Uke giving you the level and type of resistance you need or want to work on. Let's say you wanted to work on Tai Otoshi (my current project), you might trade 5 throws in a row with your partner, as slow or as fast as you want but only as fast as you can go with really good technique. Then you start moving around the mat to introduce more realism, with Uke not really resisting but not giving it to you either. Doing the throws on the move is how they are actually done, and it changes the situation so very much, yet so many people try to jump straight from standing, un-resisting Uchikomi to full-strength Randori with no middle step.

You must do this part for a long, long time before they start to feel really effortless and natural (may take more than a few whole practice sessions) but it has dramatic effects on your comfort ability and allows you to slow down and zero in on the mistakes in your game that need to be overcome. This is a really good time to video yourself as well and review. You simply won't believe how clear your mistakes become when you sit down and watch yourself. "Holy crap, look at my feet placement", "WTF am I doing with my sleeve hand, it's just hanging there like a limp noodle!", "Oh I see, I'm getting way too close to Uke and jamming myself up!". Of course the best is to do this practice with someone who is great at that technique, who can feel what's off, explain it to you on the spot and show you how they do it right on their turn, and try to get you solving that issue before you're both too tired to continue. I have made what feels like months of progress on a throw in a night just doing this.

There's another term I cannot remember which also means a set defense or reaction for the Nagekomi as well. You can get Uke to play the whole time very bent over and defensive with the stiff-arms, or ask them to simply try to avoid without blocking, or even try to counter in a certain way. Maybe you let them get a certain grip on you that you have had trouble overcoming. This is very helpful if there's a defense or situation you have been brick-walling with.

Anyway, hopefully you can see the use in this. It just takes reps, reps, reps, and conscious development. I try not to go a single session without Nagekomi now, can't imagine going without it for the rest of my Judo career.

Here's some good Nagekomi on tape, the first one being one that I have been referencing for my Tai Otoshi work.



And of course, you can just do it back and forth trading throws as they come up, but that's typically more something to do at a higher level.




In any case, what I have heard from a few sensei's I really respect is that you get your most learning out of Nage Komi and "50%-60%" Randori than you do anything else. Just like you don't go all tournament spaz in regular rolling.


Thanks for the advice! I will have to start drilling like this as soon as I can find some open mat time. Not sure about the video I don't own a camera. Maybe I can find a training partner that does.
 
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