What did Frank Shamrock do that Ken Shamrock didn't?

Wow, a Ken Shamrock nut hugger.... didnt know that was a thing lol. Jk
On a serious note though, from what I understand Ken was a real dick, and Frank was cool as hell... from what my buddy says that trained with them
I can get ken was a dick he was the alpha and dominant fighter his ego took control
Frank was dick too from stories
 
Ken struggled in that fight because he suffered a knee injury. He limps out of the cage after the fight, and then when he learned that Royce withdrew from the tournament, he withdrew as well to keep from further aggravating the injury. Had Royce continued, Ken would've continued just to fight him again, but when Royce dropped out, Ken decided that notching a W over Harold Howard wasn't worth risking putting himself on the shelf for an extended period of time, especially not with the King of Pancrase tournament just a couple of months away.

Ken was a physical specimen in terms of his strength and conditioning, but he was unfortunately quite injury-prone.




You're right that the ref missed the tap, but Royce didn't tap him again.* After Ken tapped, the ref came in and motioned for them to keep fighting. Royce then jumped back onto Ken's back just to preserve the position, but Ken didn't know WTF was going on, so he instinctively grabbed Royce's leg. They both then proceeded to explain to the idiot ref what happened, Royce calmed down, cooler heads prevailed, and everything got straightened out.

*It sounds like you've turned Royce/Ken into Bustamante/Lindland in your memory.
Last interview I saw with Ken, was outside his current home, a van parked under a bridge. This was before the kimbo fight.

Very sad. Does anyone have a video of his supposed injury in WWF?
no but many wrestlers saw it
Curtis hughes 1999
Many stories not on tape like when ken made big show tap out
Big show tried to test ken big mistake
 
If you have a chance, check out the technique section of his book, Inside the Lion’s Den.

He teaches an armbar from side control.
No, the opponent has side control, and we are supposed to somehow throw our legs up and claim an armbar!
This technique shows, just like Ken, a big strong guy who could do technically poor things, but get away with it on account of his size/strength advantage.
His leg locks were best though he learnt from fujiwara funaki
Direct lineage
 
Ken was pushing 40 when he fought Tito the first time and Frank was around 30 when he fought Tito.

Frank also trained outside the Lion's den and was much more well rounded with his skills. I think Frank was much better off his back than Ken.
Defo off his back
Learnt from tk
Ken was useless off his back
Not many could put ken on his back though
 
It's been a minute since I've seen the fight, but I remember Royce tapping him and the ref not seeing it, and then proceeding to tap him again. I could be wrong.


Nah, Ken tapped, ref had no idea what the hell just happened (that was normal back then), and Ken admitted he'd tapped after Royce started yelling at everyone. Pretty noble thing for Ken to do, really, as technically he would've been within his rights to continue on. It has happened before.
 
Nah, Ken tapped, ref had no idea what the hell just happened (that was normal back then), and Ken admitted he'd tapped after Royce started yelling at everyone. Pretty noble thing for Ken to do, really, as technically he would've been within his rights to continue on. It has happened before.
This ken said he tapped
But said Royce used his gi
But yeah said ref had no clue and apparently he was bjj bb
 
Nah, Ken tapped, ref had no idea what the hell just happened (that was normal back then), and Ken admitted he'd tapped after Royce started yelling at everyone. Pretty noble thing for Ken to do, really, as technically he would've been within his rights to continue on. It has happened before.
Yup, Royce didn't tap him twice. He got Ken with a Gi choke iirc, and Ken tapped, then Royce let go and immediately realized he shouldn't have but already gave it up ... so he just grabbed him and started shouting something which I have to assume was something like "you know you just fucking tapped!" and Ken did the correct thing in telling both Royce and the retard ref that he had already submitted.
 
Ken was useless off his back

Well, now, hold on a minute. Ken may not have had a guard game, for, as you well know, his game was catch, not BJJ, but he was still more than competent from off of his back.

1) In his first fight with Yoshiki Takahashi, he was on his back and locked him up in (and choked him out before he was able to secure a rope escape with) a slick arm-triangle.

2) In his fight with Ryushi Yanagisawa, he was on his back when he rolled into that Frank Mir-esque omoplata/toe hold combo from which he transitioned to the fight-ending inverted heel hook.

3) In his first fight with Kimo, he was on his back when he used Kimo's momentum from a missed punch to hook up what became the fight-ending kneebar.

Given that catch is so heavily offensive, Ken was certainly vulnerable if he was on his back (like when he was getting smashed by Frye in the third round of their fight), but because he had such a phenomenal submission game, you always had to be defensively on your toes even from offensively-dominant positions, and because he was such a great scrambler, you couldn't get too overzealous with your offense.

In short: I'm with you that Ken wasn't the same type of operator off of his back that Frank was, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that he was "useless" in that position.
 
Well, now, hold on a minute. Ken may not have had a guard game, for, as you well know, his game was catch, not BJJ, but he was still more than competent from off of his back.

1) In his first fight with Yoshiki Takahashi, he was on his back and locked him up in (and choked him out before he was able to secure a rope escape with) a slick arm-triangle.

2) In his fight with Ryushi Yanagisawa, he was on his back when he rolled into that Frank Mir-esque omoplata/toe hold combo from which he transitioned to the fight-ending inverted heel hook.

3) In his first fight with Kimo, he was on his back when he used Kimo's momentum from a missed punch to hook up what became the fight-ending kneebar.

Given that catch is so heavily offensive, Ken was certainly vulnerable if he was on his back (like when he was getting smashed by Frye in the third round of their fight), but because he had such a phenomenal submission game, you always had to be defensively on your toes even from offensively-dominant positions, and because he was such a great scrambler, you couldn't get too overzealous with your offense.

In short: I'm with you that Ken wasn't the same type of operator off of his back that Frank was, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that he was "useless" in that position.
Did you hear the story where ken arm barred mezger from his back?
 
Did you hear the story where ken arm barred mezger from his back?

No, actually. Does Mezger tell that story or is it in one of Ken's books?

Interestingly, armbars always seemed to me to be like Ken's submission kryptonite. For as slick as he was hooking up kneebars, he always looked a bit awkward and clumsy going for armbars. And, off the top of my head, I can't recall him ever attacking an opponent with an armbar from off of his back in a fight. Out of sheer curiosity, I would've loved to have been able to see him hit Mezger with that armbar.
 
Ken struggled in that fight because he suffered a knee injury. He limps out of the cage after the fight, and then when he learned that Royce withdrew from the tournament, he withdrew as well to keep from further aggravating the injury. Had Royce continued, Ken would've continued just to fight him again, but when Royce dropped out, Ken decided that notching a W over Harold Howard wasn't worth risking putting himself on the shelf for an extended period of time, especially not with the King of Pancrase tournament just a couple of months away.

Ken was a physical specimen in terms of his strength and conditioning, but he was unfortunately quite injury-prone.




You're right that the ref missed the tap, but Royce didn't tap him again.* After Ken tapped, the ref came in and motioned for them to keep fighting. Royce then jumped back onto Ken's back just to preserve the position, but Ken didn't know WTF was going on, so he instinctively grabbed Royce's leg. They both then proceeded to explain to the idiot ref what happened, Royce calmed down, cooler heads prevailed, and everything got straightened out.

*It sounds like you've turned Royce/Ken into Bustamante/Lindland in your memory.
Gotcha. Sorry for misremembering. Regardless, my view of Ken is still the same, even if he only got tapped once in a minute by a 175 pound guy. Not trying to hate, I give him his due credit. A pioneer with good physical strength and submissions.
 
No, actually. Does Mezger tell that story or is it in one of Ken's books?

Interestingly, armbars always seemed to me to be like Ken's submission kryptonite. For as slick as he was hooking up kneebars, he always looked a bit awkward and clumsy going for armbars. And, off the top of my head, I can't recall him ever attacking an opponent with an armbar from off of his back in a fight. Out of sheer curiosity, I would've loved to have been able to see him hit Mezger with that armbar.
Forgot last name but think was Mike something he witnessed it first hand and not mikey burnet
Mike c something
 
This ken said he tapped
But said Royce used his gi
But yeah said ref had no clue and apparently he was bjj bb
But he was allowed to use his gi, wasn't he?

I'll have to rewatch the early years again. I remember Dan Severn asking Big John a long math question before fighting Coleman (yikes). Pretty funny stuff. Lots of cool stories from the early days.
 
But he was allowed to use his gi, wasn't he?

I'll have to rewatch the early years again. I remember Dan Severn asking Big John a long math question before fighting Coleman (yikes). Pretty funny stuff. Lots of cool stories from the early days.
Yeah ken was just being bitter as they told him just before to remove his wrestling shoes
 
No, actually. Does Mezger tell that story or is it in one of Ken's books?

Interestingly, armbars always seemed to me to be like Ken's submission kryptonite. For as slick as he was hooking up kneebars, he always looked a bit awkward and clumsy going for armbars. And, off the top of my head, I can't recall him ever attacking an opponent with an armbar from off of his back in a fight. Out of sheer curiosity, I would've loved to have been able to see him hit Mezger with that armbar.
Remembered name
Mike ciesnolevicz
 
Frank stayed away from professional wrestling.
 
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