What happened at promotions

[POPPA ROTZEE]

OK. Maybe I am not understand ing right.

There is some specific character traits that he does not approve off so customer is not worth y of the bb.

But still worthy of the brown 4 stripes because he is paying fees.

How does that work?

Yes, a brown belt doesn’t not command the same respect in a gym that a black belt does. A black belt truly represents the School and the instructor. You are endorsed, at that point. And again, we are talking about things that are fixable and forgivable.

If it was unforgivable, you would
be kicked out. So your progression is up to you. And again, this isn’t common. Most people get promoted. The worst thing is typically extensions, and waiting while you make adjustments and then getting your black belt.

In some rare cases, the patience of the student runs out before the correction is made and they leave. Other cases the student might be from a different school and the issues might not be apparent until later. A purple or brown belt transferring for example.

You are asking me to give hypotheticals about a really rare occurance and arguing with me about something that rarely happens as if it is a rampart issue that people should be concerned with.

 

[lechien]

That is why i do not do speech at graduations. ..

Traditionally, instructors will tell individual story before awarding a new belt.

Then they say something sacarstic and encouraging for the guys that missed.

My friend always try to replicate the speech tradition and I told him to not bother.

You are the bb and you promote and you don't have to explain yourself.

Otherwise, some students could misunderstand you and will quote you on a public forum.



Lol.

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

That dude should not have been promoted unless his attitude changed after getting the brown belt.

Interesting to read that it is is OK fie him to keep training however.

I said “upper belt” so he was already promoted or maybe made it through one belt promotion when things haven’t compiled completely and final get to the point where you are getting evaluated for Black belt and the very conclusion you arrived to is met. “He should not get promoted” unless he makes some changes.

Often, there are contracts so they will be talked to and allowed to train. But promotions are not guaranteed. If what you are doing is bad enough to get kicked out, you will. But like I said, some people are nice guys they just have issues.

It might be a maturity issue that you grow out of. A lot of hypotheticals to a rare occurance that is usually resolved with time and conversation.

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

That is why i do not do speech at graduations. ..

Traditionally, instructors will tell individual story before awarding a new belt.

Then they say something sacarstic and encouraging for the guys that missed.

My friend always try to replicate the speech tradition and I told him to not bother.

You are the bb and you promote and you don't have to explain yourself.

Otherwise, some students could misunderstand you and will quote you on a public forum.



Lol.

Lmao

 

[lechien]

Yes, a brown belt doesn’t not command the same respect in a gym that a black belt does. A black belt truly represents the School and the instructor. You are endorsed, at that point. And again, we are talking about things that are fixable and forgivable.

If it was unforgivable, you would
be kicked out. So your progression is up to you. And again, this isn’t common. Most people get promoted. The worst thing is typically extensions, and waiting while you make adjustments and then getting your black belt.

In some rare cases, the patience of the student runs out before the correction is made and they leave. Other cases the student might be from a different school and the issues might not be apparent until later. A purple or brown belt transferring for example.

You are asking me to give hypotheticals about a really rare occurance and arguing with me about something that rarely happens as if it is a rampart issue that people should be concerned with.

Yeah, I will have to worry about it next year when we will in the position to promote bb.

 

[Deleted member 405583]

Q: Who are the ONLY human beings on the face of the Earth who care MORE about belts and belt colour than Jiu Jitsu folk?

A: Fashion models and fashion critics.

Literally one of my fav posters here in the the grappling forum

 

[Padraig12]

Thanks for the great input everyone. I left and this thread really took a life of its own

 

[nefti]

Like I said, some things you have to work on “off the mat”. It isn’t up to him to teach you. And again, you are discussing “outliers”. This isn’t the norm. These are anomalies.

That said, you aren’t owed a black belt. You can get to a brown belt with 4 stripes on your own often but to get a black belt, you have to be exemplary. Simple as that. You can have any belief system you want and you are free to choose any school you want. If you want a black belt from Drac, you will meet a certain chitera. Just like any other black belt.

This I agree with

No disrespect but you sort of talk about it as if it’s owed to you or that it would be a privilege for a black belt to give you your black belt. Seems a little backwards in my experience. Getting a black belt is a privilege. Not something you can throw time or even money at. I wouldn’t want a black belt if you could pay for it or hang around the gym long enough to get it. I’ve already been down that road with Tae kwon Do and got a black belt after 4 years as a kid. It hardley means anything today and I won every city and state competition as well as took 2nd in the Jr. Olympics. Was a big deal at the time but means almost nothing today because there are millions of black belts, some, who can’t do proper techniques and others who simple hung around Long enough that they got one.

No I do not feel this way and never have I even hinted at this. I simply stated that an instructor should guide the students progress and if the instructor doesnt it feel that the student does not fit some character criteria the the instructor should be upfront about this. In a timely manner so they can find better fitting alternatives.

Do you think it's fair to keep on taking g tuition from a guy you know you will never promote?

And honestly, I disagree that my instructor can only teach me Jiu-Jitsu. Especially when you are talking about kids who train there. Drac has taught me things on and off the mat. My kids train there and I trust him with “helping” to teach them about courage, discipline, courtesy, sportsmanship. All kinds of things beyond technique instruction alone. But maybe the climate in your gym is different.

The climate in my gym is great. We do all those things.

That being said, I have a family that taught me all those things. My grandparents escaped through a war one to give us a better life. They have instilled in me that no martial arts instructor ever could. My character is built by my family, not by my jiu jitsu instructor. But then again I started jiu jitsu as an adult.

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

This I agree with



No I do not feel this way and never have I even hinted at this. I simply states that an instructor should guide the students progress and if the instructor doesnt it feel that the student does not fit some character criteria the the instructor should be upfront about this.

I may be conflating your responses with others but a lot of people are implying they are owed the belt if they pay the tuition and are there long enough and have a “who is he to tell me im not ready or good enough”.

I cannot agree with this. A black belt to me is more than a collection of techniques or representation of time on the mat. To me, a brown belt more closely represents that. A black belt is mastery of techniques, reaching an exemplary level in the school, and representing yourself, your flag, your team and your instructor with respect.

Do you think it's fair to keep on taking g tuition from a guy you know you will never promote?

Is the guy still training? Still learning? Still have a place on the mat? If so, then yes. Because that is all your tuition guarantees.

And you keep saying that “you know will you will never promote.” That isn’t the case, if he improved where he needs, he will be. That isn’t the instructors fault if that takes longer than the student is willing to wait.

The climate in my gym is great. We do all those things.

That being said, I have a family that taught me all those things. My grandparents escaped through a war one to give us a better life. They have instilled in me that no martial arts instructor ever could. My character is built by my family, not by my jiu jitsu instructor. But then again I started jiu jitsu as an adult.

Then you probably wouldn’t have a problem getting promoted. If you don’t fit the shoes of the person I am describing, then why are you wearing his shoes and defending him? Obviously you aren’t the kind of person we are talking about.

You are a good person, a good student. The kind of person I am describing is an outlier. A rare situation.

 

[nefti]

I may be conflating your responses with others but a lot of people are implying they are owed the belt if they pay the tuition and are there long enough and have a “who is he to tell me im not ready or good enough”.

I cannot agree with this. A black belt to me is more than a collection of techniques or representation of time on the mat. To me, a brown belt more closely represents that. A black belt is mastery of techniques, reaching an exemplary level in the school, and representing yourself, your flag, your team and your instructor with respect.

Yea this part doesn't pertain to me..

Is the guy still training? Still learning? Still have a place on the mat? If so, then yes. Because that is all your tuition guarantees.

An instructor should be honest and upfront if he has a "character issue" with his student. And yes promotions and belt advancement is part of the tuition. What isn't gaurenteed is how fast you move through the ranks.

And you keep saying that “you know will you will never promote.” That isn’t the case, if he improved where he needs, he will be. That isn’t the instructors fault if that takes longer than the student is willing to wait.

Which is fair, but my main concern is when and how clearly should the instructor inform the student.

Then you probably wouldn’t have a problem getting promoted. If you don’t fit the shoes of the person I am describing, then why are you wearing his shoes and defending him? Obviously you aren’t the kind of person we are talking about.

Because while it is up to the instructor to come up with requirements for black belt promotion. It is not in good faith to not inform the student that he doesn't qualify clearly in a timely manner. Its better for the instructor and it's better for the student.

You are a good person, a good student. The kind of person I am describing is an outlier. A rare situation.

Thanks

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

Yea this part doesn't pertain to me..




An instructor should be honest and upfront if he has a "character issue" with his student.

I have already stated that he has conversation with people. I don’t know where this idea of secret decisions came from. I never stated anything like that.

And yes promotions and belt advancement is part of the tuition. What isn't gaurenteed is how fast you move through the ranks.

You are just restating what I have said multiple times, just in a different way. We probably agree on more than we disagree.

Which is fair, but my main concern is when and how clearly should the instructor inform the student.

If you are a problem, you will be sitting in Dracs office. It won’t be subtle. Trust me.

Because while it is up to the instructor to come up with requirements for black belt promotion. It is not in good faith to not inform the student that he doesn't qualify clearly in a timely manner. Its better for the instructor and it's better for the student.

There is no such thing as a “timely manner” IMO...you are ready when you are ready. Simple as that. I wouldn’t dream of asking my instructors when they plan on promoting me. At best, I’d ask them what I need to work on. That said, Drac is hands on with people.

Thanks

Yup =)

 

[eternaldarkness]

could be a style thing. my brother grappled for years before he got his blue belt, because his style was more mma orientated, and his bjj coach didn't like it, even though he was a far better grappler in a real fight than most of the people he trained with. i have never done bjj properly or gotten any belts, but i have grappled for 12 years now and tend to maul people that have pretty colours around their waist. i would likely never obtain any belts in bjj even if it did it seriously, because bjj guys hate my style. it's all double legs, forearm pressure and chicken wing dings.

 

[nefti]

There is no such thing as a “timely manner” IMO...you are ready when you are ready. Simple as that. I wouldn’t dream of asking my instructors when they plan on promoting me. At best, I’d ask them what I need to work on. That said, Drac is hands on with people.

The student should he informed about how he doesn't fit the instructor's criteria in a timely manner. Especially if it is an arbitrary condition such as "I don't think your character is good enough to be my black belt".

I thought i was clear about that.

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

The student should he informed about how he doesn't fit the instructor's criteria in a timely manner. Especially if it is an arbitrary condition such as "I don't think your character is good enough to be my black belt".

I thought i was clear about that.

I thought I was clear that if you are in danger of not getting promoted for a reason like that, you would have already been talked to multiple times.

 

[lechien]

The student should he informed about how he doesn't fit the instructor's criteria in a timely manner. Especially if it is an arbitrary condition such as "I don't think your character is good enough to be my black belt".

I thought i was clear about that.

My problem is why having different standards just for the bb.

It should also apply to brown, purple and blue as well.

 

[nefti]

I thought I was clear that if you are in danger of not getting promoted for a reason like that, you would have already been talked to multiple times.

Yes but if you read your post you make it sound like someone is owed a black belt. I have never stated this and honestly don't understand how one would come to this conclusion.

 

[nefti]

My problem is why having different standards just for the bb.

It should also apply to brown, purple and blue as well.

You have a point, why waste both of your time?

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

My problem is why having different standards just for the bb.

It should also apply to brown, purple and blue as well.

There is a different standard because a black belt is a role model. Almost like an assistant instructor. If a purple belt is doing stupid stuff, from a new students perspective....it his just another paying student. He isn’t representative of the School. A black belt doing it, it is almost as if the School, or a represntative of that school, is doing it.

For example, it is a lot different if a student AT a university says something racist, than if a professor at university says something racist. (Both would be an issue, but the way it’s percieced by outsiders and new people, or lower belts, is different)

There are standards across the school but they most certainly go up for a black belt.

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

Yes but if you read your post you make it sound like someone is owed a black belt. I have never stated this and honestly don't understand how one would come to this conclusion.

Huh? When did I state someone is owed a belt? In fact, I stated the opposite.

 

[Padraig12]

My problem is why having different standards just for the bb.

It should also apply to brown, purple and blue as well.

Your method of being honest seems the most practical. I wonder if its okay to ask him why exactly he did not promote, and if I need to work on something, either improve some aspect of Jiu-Jitsu or ask him how I can be a better person. Or exactly what he wants.