What happened to Sugar Ray Robinson in the Mayweather Jr GOAT discussion?

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by spacetime, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    97,586
    Likes Received:
    26,240
    Location:
    the sticks
    The point I was trying to make was that there was nothing wildly unique about the guy that we don't see anymore.
     
  2. Black Helicopters

    Black Helicopters Green Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2017
    Messages:
    1,214
    Likes Received:
    1,712
    He was addicted to deez
     
  3. Strange King

    Strange King Strange Music

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2014
    Messages:
    10,846
    Likes Received:
    3,863
    Location:
    Heaven
    It weird not to utilize stats comparing people from different eras. You can use the eye test, or resumes but ultimately stats are where its at.

    If i use the eye test i would say floyd takes it hands down but we dont have very much film of SRR but then theres a debate that if we dont have film is it truly accurate or is hyped by mythical standards that no one can truly argue.

    stats have been done by espn already and i have posted them in here before. No one in the history of boxing compares to floyd. His % for defense and offense dwarf every known boxer.

    resume is the only place SRR can take a lead because of how much he fought and the legends he did fight but you can still make a case for floyd resume being incredible and it will keep growing as long as canelo keeps doing well.
     
    Jhonni5 likes this.
  4. moosaev

    moosaev Green Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    852
    Firstly, there is plenty of footage of SRR, its just that most of it is past prime. But there is some footage in prime although the video quality is bad. Just off whats available i can say SRR looked better than Floyd, granted a lot of that is subjective, but his aggresiveness, movement, offensive creativity and punch accuracy blow Floyd out the water. The only thing Floyd has on him is defense. As far as stats are concerned you guys still havent explained how you make it an apples to apples comparison. The sport was structurally very different, when you fight as often as SRR did it neccessarily affects your stats as well as everything about your game.

    Another element Floyd riders love to mention is how many champions he's beaten. That totally ignores belt inflation, more belts and more weight classes equals more champions. How many champions would SRR have beaten if there were the same proliferation of belts in his era?
     
    AJBG likes this.
  5. Strange King

    Strange King Strange Music

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2014
    Messages:
    10,846
    Likes Received:
    3,863
    Location:
    Heaven
    Yes and the footage that is out there does nothing to think hes so great IMO. I know that footage is him past his prime but the only thing that he looks like he would have over floyd is size and that doesnt help his all time discussion.

    The champions argument is just like the SRR beat so many people argument. Its a different era
     
    Jhonni5 likes this.
  6. moosaev

    moosaev Green Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    852
    You claimed earlier that there wasnt a lot of footage when there was, makes me wonder whether you actually watched enough of it to form an educated opinion. I've watched plenty of complete fights of Robinson and most of Floyd's fights. I suspect a lot of folks base their opinion of Robinson from highlight videos.
     
  7. Strange King

    Strange King Strange Music

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2014
    Messages:
    10,846
    Likes Received:
    3,863
    Location:
    Heaven
    Theres not alot of footage compared to how many fights he had and most of the footage is after his prime so we really have no clue to say how great he really was. Its a myth.

    Educated opinion hahah. Ok buddy i just have boxed and trained people my whole life but a sherdogger cant accept other peoples argument so hey youre not as smart as me argument usually shows who is non educated
     
    Jhonni5 likes this.
  8. Strange King

    Strange King Strange Music

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2014
    Messages:
    10,846
    Likes Received:
    3,863
    Location:
    Heaven
    also fyi i dont care if you think SRR is better but dont be so upset when others have educated opinions on why floyd might have a legit challenge to the throne.

    shit so many people hate floyd sometimes he doesnt even make top 50 lol
     
    Jhonni5 likes this.
  9. moosaev

    moosaev Green Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    852
    I'm not trying to be a dick, but you claimed there wasnt a lot of footage which isnt true. Its fair to question whether you actually have watched enough footage given your answer. And youre not the only one thats fought, its lame to use that card.
     
  10. Strange King

    Strange King Strange Music

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2014
    Messages:
    10,846
    Likes Received:
    3,863
    Location:
    Heaven
    Bro youre really arguing now over the word "alot"

    I dont think theres alot and the footage i have seen doesnt make me think that hes the greatest of all time. I do however listen to historians but i take things like that with a grain of salt.

    I really dont even know wtf youre even talking about anymore, like youre arguing over a word "alot"... and if you dont like the card used dont say dumb shit about people being uneducated as boxing fans when you havent defeated anyones argument with your own so called expert motherfucking knowledgeable godly manly cant touch this opinion of yours
     
  11. moosaev

    moosaev Green Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    852
    Dont act so butthurt man, we're just having a conversation
     
    Dr. Will and mrsenor like this.
  12. Dr. Will

    Dr. Will Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    227
    Stats is not solely how greatness is assessed. Zinedine Zidane and Andres Iniesta have far weaker stats than Mesut Ozil in Soccer, but the former two are both better and greater than Ozil.
    You'll get lost in translation by having a fixation on stats because anyone can rig stats to their favour, especially with the leeway that today's era brings. It's easier for the winner of the WBSS 168LB tourney to assert dominance in this new mediocre era with incredible stats, than it is for the era almost 10 years ago when Andre Ward had to beat the likes of Kessler, Abraham, Froch etc. at Super Middleweight.

    Again, don't avoid this point - all of these 'modern day fighters' have had crazy amateur records at the senior level - so many losses. Boxing back then was a more brutal version of today's amateur boxing schedule. The only anomaly is Lomachenko who is essentially seen as the SRR of amateur boxing as a result. A lot of Loma's top opponents have losses left, right and centre. Is this ATG Amateur a bum because he has 45 losses for example? http://www.sportenote.com/vedi_dettagli.asp?id=10863
    Losses is just a part of the territory with that schedule.
    Ironically, speaking of stats, if you're fighting the best very often in an era where everybody loses a lot, and in your prime you amassed a 128-1 record, that is remarkable.
     
  13. Hagler

    Hagler Man of wealth and taste

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2001
    Messages:
    15,890
    Likes Received:
    3,061
    Location:
    The shed
    If losses are taken into account to appraise a fighter greatness, which they should be, their being pre or post prime should count, as well as the weight class or their being avenged or not. As for wins, their being controversial or against prime or green / over the hill opponents should matter too. Every single boxer's resume in history has weaknesses. Including SSR's and Floyd's. They're just dwarfed by their accomplishements.
     
    Strange King likes this.
  14. AJBG

    AJBG White Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    78
    One thing is statiscal data or facts and another thing is the statistical inferences drawn upon such data. Of course, lately we have learned about alternative facts and reality, but that’s for another type of forums...
    The fact of the matter is the following: SRR won 4 championship belts out of 8 possible weight classes. So, SRR P4P championship-equivalent is 4/8=0.5 points or 50%. Floyd won titles in 5 out of 17 weight classes (regardless of sanctioning bodies), so he gets 5/17=0.3 or 30%. Next, Floyd has 50 wins in 50 fights; i.e., he gets 50/50=1, and SRR has 173/200=0.87. Putting all together: Floyd P4P scores is 1.3 and SRR is 1.37. Any question?
     
    Gregoire1 and Strange King like this.
  15. Shoemaker

    Shoemaker ****BOILERPLATE**** Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Messages:
    9,719
    Likes Received:
    8,532
    Location:
    A Boat With Shannon Briggs, Right Behind You
    So this was never really a "why did we forget about Robinson?" thread, was it? It was a "Floyd Mayweather isn't the greatest of all time" thread.
     
    Strange King likes this.
  16. Dr. Will

    Dr. Will Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    227
    That's the problem. Statistical inferences drawn from the data you limited this to does not actually tell the full story, thus analyzing such data in very a one dimensional manner is barking up the wrong tree..circular reasoning.
     
  17. JayE

    JayE Black Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2016
    Messages:
    6,394
    Likes Received:
    7,787
    You should give this guy a break; he seems really, really slow.
     
    Jhonni5 likes this.
  18. mrsenor

    mrsenor Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 3, 2015
    Messages:
    3,816
    Likes Received:
    2,089
    is that jenner?
     
  19. ProBoxingInsidr

    ProBoxingInsidr Red Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2011
    Messages:
    9,734
    Likes Received:
    8,102
    Location:
    Las Vegas
  20. moosaev

    moosaev Green Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    852
    Eddie Mustafa knows what he's talking about, accurately broke down what Floyd would need to do and pointed out that Robinson-Burley is the true dream fight.

    Who's that idiot that said Robinson pulled out of more fights than he's fought? That guy needs a beating for such disrespect.
     

Share This Page