What It Would Take For Rock To Return

Discussion in 'Music Discussion (BAM'S Bieberverse)' started by Blackjack, Dec 30, 2017.

  1. Crimson Glory

    Crimson Glory We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx

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    Whether you like it or not, thats the way its gone. With new technology comes change. Music is more accessible than ever to those who look for it and there are still tons of bands out there, theyre not on the radio as much, not here. But Im going to stress that music like any consumer item goes through peaks and valleys. Do you still hear blues, swing, jazz etc on mainstream radio? Does music television even still exist now after YouTube came along? Do people still listen to vinyl in the numbers they used to?

    Best thing that can happen is for the music industry to get turned on its head and for labels to go under imo. Some bands are already using their own recording studios and getting their own music out there on their own rather than getting raped or pressured to change by these companies for the masses. Im sure youve heard the stories of bands like Rush getting pressured to become more commercial.

    You may not be aware of all the great artists that are out there today, you arent putting in the time to find them. Just because they arent as accessible as turning on your radio as they were back in the 2000s and before doesnt mean its dead.

    Heres a question, why is it that only Rock is experiencing this and not RnB or Hip Hop? They still seem to be making money. Is it entirely to do with the way music consumption has gone or is it more to do with how the trends have gone?

    Also Rock n Roll didnt conpletely die after file sharing happened. Guaranteed people were file sharing more than just Rock music.

    Ive heard many artists nowadays say they dont make money through music sales but ticket sales, merch and royalties. Spotify pays through the amount of plays a band gets, so that comes down to who likes you. I use Spotify like crazy and only use it for artists I really like, most of them Metal or Rock.

    I still think youre failing to see that Rock/Metal music has just gone underground like so many old genres. Rap will do the same eventuallly.

    There are still TONS of Metal bands out there. You just have to look for them. And the internet has actually made it easier to consume music and learn about its history aswell as get it out there and modern tech means you dont have to get a contract to record it like you used to.
     
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  2. Blackjack

    Blackjack Black Belt

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    Regarding your question as to why rock seems to be harder hit by the internet and the piracy it enables, probably the best answer I found was in an interview with Paul O'Neill that I read a few years ago. Paul O'Neill passed away recently but for those who don't know who he was, he was the founder of The Trans -Siberian orchestra and before that the producer of Tampa Bay metal legends Savatage as well as their co-writer. In fact, the guitarists in TSO were the former Savatage guitarists and bass player. Savatage vocalist Jon Oliva has been the co-writer for TSO's music along with O'Neill since its inception.

    He was asked about the situation with rock music and why we haven't seen anyone who has made their debut in the past 15 years or so become successful enough that they would be considered rock stars. O'Neill talked about how the vast majority of what had been the major record labels in the 20th century going bankrupt. There are just a few of those labels still in existence and the money that was there in the 60's through the 90s just isn't there anymore. That's no surprise considering record stores have all but disappeared, even the once mighty Tower Records.

    So, what happened to rock bands as a result is the money that used to be here for what was termed "artist development" just isn't there anymore. O'Neill stated he was lucky as The Trans Siberian Orchestra was one of the last, or possibly the last rock acts to have a major label spending considerable money on them for artist development. That contributed to TSO becoming one of the top ten highest grossing touring acts in all of music for most of the last ten years.

    When asked just how vital artist development was, O'Neill put it this way: Lots of tremendously successful rock bands took quite a while to reach stardom or even make money! he cited Queen and Pink Floyd as two bands who didn't have a successful album until their sixth or seventh release. O'Neill stated that would never happen these days. Pink Floyd, Queen, Rush and countless other rock legends would very possibly never have been heard from again after their first two albums flopped if the music business in their era had been in the condition it is in today.

    O'Neill explained that today a artist or band has to be profitable by their second album or they would dropped by the label and lose the benefits of having a deal such as the publicity the labels endured their artists received through marketing, advertising, tour support, music videos, all of which are highly expensive as well as hiring a big name producer and buying recording time in a high quality recording studio.
     
  3. Crimson Glory

    Crimson Glory We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx

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    Interesting input.

    Savatage is a fantastic band and I enjoy a bit of TSO.

    Bottom line though is, you cant stop progress. Everything that came with the internet, good and bad, isnt going to stop.

    Those that have a real passion for it will continue and there will always be kids who crave it.

    Its only been less than two decades since "The death of Rock" whos to say what will happen another 20 years from now?
     
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  4. Cygnus A

    Cygnus A Purple Belt

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    I think you and many others are missing something. There are so many new bands out there it is impossible for any to stand out. There is amazing music being pumped out now that just gets lost in the noise. The radio has been an awful place to discover music for decades ,so you need to rely on word of mouth or stumbling onto it through other means. I've moved from torrenting music heavily to just using spotify since it lets me find new music I wouldn't have otherwise found.

    Ii would take an unknown disruption for a new band to break through and become mega stars at this point. I'm not even sure it is possible.
     
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  5. Cygnus A

    Cygnus A Purple Belt

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    This makes a lot of sense as well. I just finished watching the history of Iron Maiden documentary. Those guys toured relentlessly for nearly a decade before breaking through. Everyone in the band was replaced at some point (multiple times even) except the bassist. the interviewed the record execs who backed them and fronted tons of cash for world tours to expand their base since their music didn't really translate well to radio play.
     
  6. Lucifer Alpha

    Lucifer Alpha The Catastrophe

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    Men to be men.
     
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  7. P0NYBOY

    P0NYBOY Blue Belt

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    Halestorm pulling more than their weight.


     
  8. jrams

    jrams Black Belt

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    The top rock song on soundcloud right now is from the rapper XXXTentacion by almost twice as much as the next song. Rockers are falling behind on distribution technologies. Keke by 6ix9ine is at 4 million plays this week already, the top rock song I Write Sins Not Tragedies by Panic! At the Disco is at 67k (and is a decade old).

    They don't have anyone like Lil Wayne, Tech N9ne, Gucci Mane, A$AP Rocky, or XXXTentacion building a scene.
    They don't have XXL, WorldStarHipHop, Elevator, or DatPiff promoting new songs and artists.
     
  9. fonzob1

    fonzob1 Red Belt

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    More rock musicians + more people willing to buy rock albums

    I think bands should start going retro 80's and early 90's. Maybe 70's too. Those were the best eras of music.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  10. Blackjack

    Blackjack Black Belt

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    I agree wholeheartedly! I'd say 1970-1992 were the best years for rock. after 1992 heavy metal in all its sub-genres took a massive hit in popularity as grunge was pushed heavily by the radio stations and MTV and the result was despite a few talented bands being in that category, in general what you had were bands that didn't even have guitarists who new how to play lead guitar, the drummers were simplistic and boring, and the lyrics always had to focus on how horrible life was. Music should be a celebration of life!
     
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  11. Jimmy Jazz

    Jimmy Jazz Black Belt

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    you are underrating the 60s hard, bro.
     
  12. fonzob1

    fonzob1 Red Belt

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    60's had some greats as well (e.g., The Doors), but I didn't feel like it was really as saturated with as a great of music as we had in the 70's, 80's, and early 90's.

    On a side note, Dolph really sacrificed to gain fame and fortune didn't he? lol
     
  13. Jimmy Jazz

    Jimmy Jazz Black Belt

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    To me thats just crazy, bro. There are so many great bands and albums of the 60s. even less known ones are often ill. Most 70s rock was a product of 60s rock. If you are just talking music then its not even close. 60s soul, rnb, blues, psyche, funk,country etc was the shit.
     
  14. Jimmy Jazz

    Jimmy Jazz Black Belt

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    lol i just caught your dolph reference. Nah man he just liked his chocolate lol
     
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  15. MadSquabbles500

    MadSquabbles500 Gold Belt

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    What kind of rock do you want to come back: Hair metal, or dark twisted demonic metal?

    Do you want this:


    Or this:



    Wait are you talking about this rock?

     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
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  16. HHJ

    HHJ Plutonium Belt

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    I stopped paying attention to whats on tv and the radio a long time ago. I know what I like and how to get it,and thats quite enough for me.
     
  17. HHJ

    HHJ Plutonium Belt

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    Glam Rock was destined to burn out. All you have to do is watch The Decline of Western Civilization part 2: The "metal" years to see that there was no way that could sustain itself.
     
  18. PoundMeToo

    PoundMeToo Gold Belt

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    There is still rock being made, probably more than ever. It just isn't all "classic rock" it's much more varied.

    There are more mainstream acts like
    Cage the elephant
    Arctic monkeys
    Brand new
    Manchester orchestra
    Jack White

    Indie stuff
    Car Seat Headrest
    Tame Impala(latest album was more EDM to be fair)

    Just to name a few off the top of my head
     
  19. Gorack

    Gorack Purple Belt

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    I think his point is there aren't any of those "iconic" musicians or bands like Zeppelin, Sabbath, Stones etc. that EVERYBODY knew about and who filled football stadium size venues regularly. In rock right now, Dave Matthews Band and U2 are the first that come to mind that can still command audiences of that size through entire tours. Oh, and Dead and Company is a fucking cash cow like that too but that's not going to last I don't think. But, none of those debuted this century and personally I wouldn't go see any of them for free other than maybe U2 because they have outstanding production for their stage shows.

    The big stars now are mostly pop musicians like Lady Gaga, Kanye annnnd I don't listen to pop music so that's all that come to mind right now. But anyway, who could be the next big thing in rock is anyone's guess. Maybe nobody. Like someone else said; how much swing music are we hearing these days? To me what's more important is that swing music IS still being made and played, you just have to seek it out.

    Rock music will continue to be made. In jam rock alone there's more bands than ever pushing the style in countless directions. None are the clear heir apparent to Phish who are still the biggest thing in that scene (other than DMB but I don't consider them "jam" so much.) But that scene will continue to thrive and I'm sure it's like that in the metal scene, the industrial scene, the classic rock scene and on and on.

    It's just that there's so much different music out there that people have access to that it seems unlikely a now dated genre like blues based rock will rise to the top again. Music is organic and will keep changing over time so genres are more blurred now than ever. Bands like The Beastie Boys or Daft Punk wouldn't be considered rock in this conversation I'm sure, but I'd argue that if it weren't for rock music we wouldn't have ever seen a Beastie Boys or a Daft Punk. All of those guys started out banging on drums and playing guitars and such trying to be "regular" musicians.

    Personally I don't care if the musicians I like are huge stars or not. I think Jim James (My Morning Jacket) is one of the greatest front men going in rock right now. He has a charisma and demeanor on stage that just oozes fucking cool rock star vibes. I didn't think that until their 2016 Lockn performance but from then on I've been sold. He's really come into his own as a lead singer imo. 10 years ago I wouldn't have said that. Those guys get some radio play but they're never going to be a household name like The Stones or whoever.

    I'll finish this just saying that I'm actually glad bands have to tour to make their money now. For me, being able to "bring it" live is what it's all about.
     
  20. Nameless Ghoul

    Nameless Ghoul Brown Belt

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    I'd say people need something to get them to go out and see bands live. They're happy just watching clips on YouTube, but that can never compare to being there live. I heard a saying once along the lines of "A good song can change your mind, but a great concert can change your life.". After that they'll keep coming back, while buying merchandise and spreading the word about the music.
     

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