What's goin' down at Tocco's (video):

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"MO no one shouldn't be punching like that. But some would call that self-bias and argue on behalf of different looking punches that are less effective. I am a big opponent of the head moving forward when you throw the rear hand. Billy Briscoe and I had a debate about it, as he asked me outright why I teach an incorrect right hand. I explained the mechanics of my "hard" right, and he still said he felt there should be a shift to the left (then he threw a left hook). I said that's throwing the right to throw the hook. The weight is moving, so it can't be all settled into the punch, but it will be for the left. We throw the right to end things with the right. More stationary, but higher force. He still disagreed, so one of my Amateurs (Loco, who I just bumped a thread about that no one replied to) sparred his Pro Sammy Vargas and I told my guy to throw as many hard lefts as he could. He landed about 10 of them in 2 rounds, and a couple really nice ones. Plus his head was too far back to be countered readily. Sam did slap him around for the next 2 rounds, but he had to work for it."

Maybe this is a silly question but is it an option to use the hop step with the right hand (forward, weight shifts from right hip to left hip) at the same time to close distance/step with the right hand (The hop would be a bit modified as the weight is shift to the left the left foot is slighty raised to initiate Dempseys Falling Step, which drags the right hip/foot with a dropping motion where the weight would move diagonally downward with the weight on the right foot )?


In the video of your partner Dadi they only show the right hand when moving backwards with the hop step but not forwards (forwards-left hook)
 
IMO no one shouldn't be punching like that. But some would call that self-bias and argue on behalf of different looking punches that are less effective. I am a big opponent of the head moving forward when you throw the rear hand. Billy Briscoe and I had a debate about it, as he asked me outright why I teach an incorrect right hand. I explained the mechanics of my "hard" right, and he still said he felt there should be a shift to the left (then he threw a left hook). I said that's throwing the right to throw the hook. The weight is moving, so it can't be all settled into the punch, but it will be for the left. We throw the right to end things with the right. More stationary, but higher force. He still disagreed, so one of my Amateurs (Loco, who I just bumped a thread about that no one replied to) sparred his Pro Sammy Vargas and I told my guy to throw as many hard lefts as he could. He landed about 10 of them in 2 rounds, and a couple really nice ones. Plus his head was too far back to be countered readily. Sam did slap him around for the next 2 rounds, but he had to work for it.

Dude. This weekend at an open mat I almost took the head off a guy 25lbs heavier than me with your version of the cross. After the session he mentioned how hard I hit; I showed him your cross and his jaw hit the floor almost as hard as he hit my glove.
 
Maybe this is a silly question but is it an option to use the hop step with the right hand (forward, weight shifts from right hip to left hip) at the same time to close distance/step with the right hand (The hop would be a bit modified as the weight is shift to the left the left foot is slighty raised to initiate Dempseys Falling Step, which drags the right hip/foot with a dropping motion where the weight would move diagonally downward with the weight on the right foot )?

In the video of your partner Dadi they only show the right hand when moving backwards with the hop step but not forwards (forwards-left hook)

When you hop-step forward...the moment the LEFT foot touches down (right foot should already be down), throw the right.

Dude. This weekend at an open mat I almost took the head off a guy 25lbs heavier than me with your version of the cross. After the session he mentioned how hard I hit; I showed him your cross and his jaw hit the floor almost as hard as he hit my glove.

Nice! Yes that's the typical reaction to feeling a right hand where the weight stays on the right side of the body. A huge WTF.
 
its going to be very interesting to see your guys pro careers. Love the way you do mittwork, really instruct ur guys. Rather than having them throw 10punch combos they would never use in a fight.
 
I try to mix up the mitt work, sometimes it's the busy flashy stuff, other times it's form-specific and maximization.

Here's our 6-time National Champion Alex sparring with undefeated Pro Eric Walker:

 
Holy shit, that was more exiting than most fights. I was really feeling Erics slick turns on the inside and Alex showed some brutal body work
 
With a right hand that powerful, when do you even throw it? I know this is kind of a dumb question, but it seems significantly harder to time/land that kind of power cross. It basically comes down to when someone is overextending or timing huh. Cant really lead with that kind of right hand unless your opponent is seriously out of position or your timing is on point.
 
It's not really harder, it's just a position you're not used to. If you're landing a shifting right hand BECAUSE there's a bit of a forward shift, then it's not landing at the right distance anyway. It's not to be treated as a specialty punch, like an overhand or something. It's just a very straight right.
 
Hey @Sinister

Man, you gotta work on the connection of the live streams. I mean, the sparring is great, but between the lag and video quality dropping out it's hard to watch.
 
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We used the Gym ' s wifi this time, that's about as good as its going to get. There's not even multiple people on it at once.
 
Za-Quan already got signed, but it didn't amount to much. So we're keeping him active in the amateurs until I get a better offer. He's the one that sparred J-Flash Friday night.
 
Here's my young Heavyweight Samurai Pete, this was earlier last year, both of these kids are around 16, Pete's the one with the long hair:

 
@Sinister you always seem to have a lot of knowledge as to the mechanics of punches, I get that you're a boxing instructor so that should be the standard. But you seem to know a lot more than most other coaches do. I was wondering if your knowledge specifically comes from the eastern bloc/cuban school of thought, or if there was any other coaches that influenced how you teach the mechanics of a punch.

Essentially I'm asking how you learned those small details in technique that most other gyms don't teach.
 
Well, it's weird because Mike was TRYING to teach this kind of stuff. So was Merqui Sosa in the year and a half I spent with him. Mike's first trainer was Cuban, and the Dominican Republic's National Boxing program is modeled after the Cuban system. So both of them learned similar stuff. But neither of them were VERY effective at communicating what they were trying to say. I got a lot out of Mike because I hounded him for details, and I have a gift of mimicry (I even do good verbal impressions of people). So I could copy what I see.

But it was Dadi who really helped me connect all the dots and explained WHY the Cubans and Russians developed their boxing programs as they did. They stumbled upon a lot of great stuff without realizing the full significance of it because their primary focus was "Olympic glory" over the U.S. and U.K., which they duly achieved. With the two months Dadi and I spent together, all the dots I learned connected, and then I was able to expound much more from not only observation, but having Cuban trainers around me and the occasional fighters from the Eastern Bloc who were aware of what they were doing.

But once upon a time American and U.K. trainers knew similar stuff, but we became enamored with athleticism, or power. What we became very good at, was finding the golden geese. Then our entire Amateur programs became built on two things: 1) speed (or as I sometimes put it, LARGELY the athleticism of black people), and 2) the toughness of white kids and Latinos. Right now, most of our high-level U.S. Amateurs look hauntingly similar to each other. That's been the problem through the last few years. We always reward the same things, and send the same types of fighters to the Olympics each time, just to come back with very little.

I really liked Nico Hernandez, but in his final match against an Uzbek, he was just out-classed and did well when he just waded through shots to score:



I thought Gary Antwun Russel was robbed, but I don't think he'd have won the Gold at 141. Then there's Shakur Stevenson, who has crazy good reflexes, hand-eye coordination, and overall speed. But it wasn't enough to beat the reigning Champ Ramirez:



But you see I'm not TOO stingy about what I know. I think trainers nowadays are too secretive, especially the ones who DON'T actually know shit. But if we were open to learning, to using what our rivals do against them, and if our chief interest was the quality of our boxing over the quality of our lifestyles, then the students themselves would benefit most.
 
I wanna hear verbal impressions now. :cool:

So you were fairly influenced by those sort of styles. I found it interesting when I read excerpts from old textbooks on boxing that the old timers seemed to really understand these mechanics, but for whatever reason you barely ever see it in the gym.

I am planning on visiting the cuban boxing academy in London, its run by Marcos Camejo, it'll be a long trip but it'll be worth it to train with him and his people. I just didn't feel satisfied with any of the boxing instruction I was getting. I felt like it was always "turn your hips and sit down on the punch" but not much explanation of the mechanic outside of "drop your knee". I never seemed to train with small people that could hit hard. I think I was spoiled because of my muay thai training, where I get to spar and clinch with a veteran from Thailand.

Is there anything you can recommend reading wise or video wise to learn more about the sort of technique that you've learned and taught?
 
Well, in the U.S. things degraded largely on account of the athletic factor, PLUS what happened in Coaching/being a trainer. You don't have to do a lot to actually be a Coach. A lot of kids' Fathers have USA Boxing passbooks, without ever having boxed or apprenticed under a good trainer. The late 80's began the era of the "Daddy" and "Mentor" trainers, who took these athletic kids far just by nurturing their self-confidence. Jack Mosley and Shane Mosley. Roy Jones Sr. and Jr. Though Roy Sr. COULD fight. Calvin Brock's Father who built a really good fighter basically by studying VHS tapes. These guys had some smarts to figure out aspects of the game, but people thought they were actually good trainers and most of them never had another very good fighter they groomed. And other Daddies/mentors figured "well if Jack Mosley could do it, I can too."

I went through a lot of shit to get where I am, including taking Pro quality beatings in the Gym. Losing my only Pro fight, starting too late. Yadda yadda. But when it came time to teach I wasn't comfortable doing that until I duly learned how to communicate all this stuff. I followed the trainers at Tocco's around, assisted in corners at Amateur and Pro events. Because I managed the Gym, the owners had me go to every Amateur weigh-in as the "Gym representative" and to this day most of the people around here still consider me that. I became such a common sight fighters who knew me from other Gyms (or trainers) would ask me to help them out if they needed something. That went on for about 2 years before I agreed to train anyone fully. I always remember what Eddie Futch told Georgie Benton when he wanted to learn to be a trainer: "Forget everything you think you know about fighting. You're back at the beginning. Grab that spit-bucket." I was "bucket man" for quite a few months before any of the trainers here took anything I had to say in a corner seriously.

There's a few good trainers in the U.K. trying to revive these systems as well. Al Osta is one of them who had a student visit here and work with me for a bit. I think I posted a video in this thread of a couple corrections I made to the guy's form. Also, remember, there's terrible Cuban trainers too. We had a guy here where he KNEW the entire Cuban system, problem was he only ever gave anyone about 1/8th of what he knew. He didn't even have any of his guys do any of the partner drills their whole system is contingent upon until I started having my fighters do them. Like most trainers who want their fighters to feel co-dependent, all he ever did was mitt work.
 
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