What's goin' down at Tocco's (video):

[shincheckin]

Kid got hit in the nuts about 30 seconds prior to that, Emiliano took advantage of him being hurt and went after him. We didn't know they were recording. About 15 seconds after this video stops, Cesar got up and went after him, finished the round (he said he had been hurt but not near as bad as it looked) Emiliano is Fernando Vargas' Son, at the show on Saturday I confronted Fernando about it myself.

There's a rule, what happens in the gym is supposed to stay in the gym to some degree. I wouldn't care if Fernando said his kid stopped a fighter from our gym, that's true. But posting just that part for e-fame is a bit petty. I have videos of people from almost every other trainer I've stood across the ring from getting beat to shit by my guys, but I don't put that out there to say "Hey look how awesome they are at rehearsing fights."

But we know now that Emiliano is a head hunter (kind of kid who gets off on embarrassing fighters if he manages to hurt them), and in this business, you reap what you sew.

he looked quite a bit bigger, i think its a good thing you spoke with them about it. the whole thing just looked over the top.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

And what's up with him not wearing a DragonBall Z outfit?

 

[Sinister]

he looked quite a bit bigger, i think its a good thing you spoke with them about it. the whole thing just looked over the top.

Nah they're both 114lb'ers. Cesar's weight is just all in his legs

 

[Sano]

Fk that was really unnecessary knock down.

That's fucking disgraceful is what it is.

Kid got hit in the nuts about 30 seconds prior to that, Emiliano took advantage of him being hurt and went after him. We didn't know they were recording. About 15 seconds after this video stops, Cesar got up and went after him, finished the round (he said he had been hurt but not near as bad as it looked) Emiliano is Fernando Vargas' Son, at the show on Saturday I confronted Fernando about it myself.

There's a rule, what happens in the gym is supposed to stay in the gym to some degree. I wouldn't care if Fernando said his kid stopped a fighter from our gym, that's true. But posting just that part for e-fame is a bit petty. I have videos of people from almost every other trainer I've stood across the ring from getting beat to shit by my guys, but I don't put that out there to say "Hey look how awesome they are at rehearsing fights."

But we know now that Emiliano is a head hunter (kind of kid who gets off on embarrassing fighters if he manages to hurt them), and in this business, you reap what you sew.

So your gripe is it being recorded and posted, not that the kid was pounded out and stopped during a sparring match, when he was in no position to defend himself? Add to that he was propped up and let continue the round? I dont understand why there's not someone in there to ref or stop the action if the kids are going this hard.

 

[Sinister]

That's fucking disgraceful is what it is.


So your gripe is it being recorded and posted, not that the kid was pounded out and stopped during a sparring match, when he was in no position to defend himself? Add to that he was propped up and let continue the round? I dont understand why there's not someone in there to ref or stop the action if the kids are going this hard.

Whoah up there a second hoss.

I don't think you actually read what I said, or are probably having an emotional reaction based on personal experience. There are head-hunters in boxing, that's the way it is. Sooner or later you encounter them. The way we deal with them within the Sport is likely not what you'd approve of.

Cesar was not "propped up" and let continue, and personally I find that assessment based on your interpretation of my words personally offensive. When he got up he told everyone to get the fuck off of him and out of his way, I checked for signs of damage myself (and I know the signs of concussions as you well know, and he's been checked since then), and when he continued, he did better than Emiliano did. You make it sound as if he was being punched on more with no resistance, which is absolutely false.

Lastly, they're both 18 and this was regular sparring. We don't have refs on-staff for every session. Now, you can personally disagree with how I handled the situation, but this is exactly the second time something has ever happened like this and the first one it happened with is currently my best fighter and hasn't been down since that incident (which was 4 years ago). I respect your right to disagree, and understand the shock from those who don't do this at this level, as both these guys are National level competitors, however your tone is full of implication...to which you can politely fuck off.

 

[Sano]

Whoah up there a second hoss.

I don't think you actually read what I said, or are probably having an emotional reaction based on personal experience. There are head-hunters in boxing, that's the way it is. Sooner or later you encounter them. The way we deal with them within the Sport is likely not what you'd approve of.

Cesar was not "propped up" and let continue, and personally I find that assessment based on your interpretation of my words personally offensive. When he got up he told everyone to get the fuck off of him and out of his way, I checked for signs of damage myself (and I know the signs of concussions as you well know, and he's been checked since then), and when he continued, he did better than Emiliano did. You make it sound as if he was being punched on more with no resistance, which is absolutely false.

Lastly, they're both 18 and this was regular sparring. We don't have refs on-staff for every session. Now, you can personally disagree with how I handled the situation, but this is exactly the second time something has ever happened like this and the first one it happened with is currently my best fighter and hasn't been down since that incident (which was 4 years ago). I respect your right to disagree, and understand the shock from those who don't do this at this level, as both these guys are National level competitors, however your tone is full of implication...to which you can politely fuck off.

I'm not saying you don't care for your fighters, I know you do, but the mentality and the way it's handled as a part of boxing culture is just something I cannot align myself with. 5 years ago yes, but not today.

I am sorry if I misunderstood you, but I am not trying to be vague here. I think it's fucked that shit like this happens during sparring and it's frankly sad. By your post you only addressed being angry about them putting it up there, not the incident itself, and by your response now you say it's par for the course at that level. So logically that leads me to the believe you find it acceptable and you have the right to do that, but if so then I'm not misrepresenting your argument. I don't see what the level has to do with it, in my mind the answer is it's part of the culture. Even then, they are still amateurs. I train with a few of the best MMA fighters in the world right now and I have these conversations with them. One of my good friends, a previous Bellator fighter, can't stand unnecessary hard sparring. It's an oldschool boxing thing that is very prevalent in this country too.

Yes, it's obvious that sometimes you have to break a few eggs and people get riled up and dropped in sparring. It's not figure skating and it happens. I also understand the need to mentally let the fighter continue as to not break their self esteem. My problem is, not cracking down on that shit. He's a headhunter yeah, but it's the coaches and the gyms that set the tone. That should be acknowledged. It's good that you checked on him for obvious signs, but most of the time they are not obvious at all. It's not how the brain functions and concussive damage is not that easy to determine. You've seen it, you know, if it doesn't come now it comes down the road and it's a straight coin toss who has the genetics to not be entirely debilitated. The brain is the most suspectible to damage when it's already been rattled, and getting rattled too much as an adolescent is a precurser for TBIs down the road.

I'm not implying, I'm saying directly that to me that shit is just not alright and I think it's unnecessarily putting young kids health at risk that they are allowed, even encouraged (I'm talking about his team) to finish each other off like that in training. That's the way I feel about it and that wont change. I know stuff happens, but I think it's unfortunate that we have to tiptoe around this and can't call a spade a spade.

 

[Sinister]

He's still being monitored. He was supposed to fight two days later, I pulled him from that and he has yet to spar.

The level has a lot to do with it. Daijon was stopped by the #2 guy in the U.S. in 2014. Joseph had that bad knockdown by Akmadaliev, who was #3 in the World. Every other time I've seen this happen it's been very high level competitors. Risk is relative to level, the higher the level, the higher the risk. Theres no getting away from that. As far as being checked, as mentioned I did confront his Father/trainrer, and the conversation wasn't pleasant from my end. Anything else is going to fall short of what you deem acceptable. USA Boxing isn't going to admonish a fighter for stopping an opponent in sparring, they just enforce procedure after, which is being followed. Banning them from the gym only assures we will encounter them in tournaments, and now with bad blood. I was able to handle the situation and keep it fairly diplomatic.

Like I said, I understand the concern and you from your personal experiences. I don't shy my fighters away or shelter them from this harsh reality of boxing because this IS a hurt sport. Young men who are insulated from this reality and at the same time gassed up with confidence that didn't come from true adversity leads to greater ruin in the long-run. I see kids like that all the time who if something like this happens, they cannot and never get past it. By the rationale of the civilian, anyone who experiences a "brutal" knockout (and we can have a sound debate on the brutality of this compared to the guy getting g hit for 36 minutes but never went down), should simply quit. But anyone who feels that way just plain isn't cut out for this.

 

[Sano]

He's still being monitored. He was supposed to fight two days later, I pulled him from that and he has yet to spar.

The level has a lot to do with it. Daijon was stopped by the #2 guy in the U.S. in 2014. Joseph had that bad knockdown by Akmadaliev, who was #3 in the World. Every other time I've seen this happen it's been very high level competitors. Risk is relative to level, the higher the level, the higher the risk. Theres no getting away from that. As far as being checked, as mentioned I did confront his Father/trainrer, and the conversation wasn't pleasant from my end. Anything else is going to fall short of what you deem acceptable. USA Boxing isn't going to admonish a fighter for stopping an opponent in sparring, they just enforce procedure after, which is being followed. Banning them from the gym only assures we will encounter them in tournaments, and now with bad blood. I was able to handle the situation and keep it fairly diplomatic.

Like I said, I understand the concern and you from your personal experiences. I don't shy my fighters away or shelter them from this harsh reality of boxing because this IS a hurt sport. Young men who are insulated from this reality and at the same time gassed up with confidence that didn't come from true adversity leads to greater ruin in the long-run. I see kids like that all the time who if something like this happens, they cannot and never get past it. By the rationale of the civilian, anyone who experiences a "brutal" knockout (and we can have a sound debate on the brutality of this compared to the guy getting g hit for 36 minutes but never went down), should simply quit. But anyone who feels that way just plain isn't cut out for this.

I'm sorry I am being so reactive. I do admire your way of teaching the art of boxing and I've learned from watching your videos, so in a way I feel like I am overstepping my bounds. I'm at a place now if I see something I believe is not right, then I will address it, sometimes not considering the entire context. Be that to you or anyone else.

Smart not letting him spar for a while after that, even if he doesn't have obvious symptoms (or wont admit to them). I agree that it's entirely debateable which is worse, getting knocked down or getting beaten up for 36 minutes. Neither are very good.

I think it's solid that you inform them of the risks, although they probably wont comprehend it with them being young and feeling invulnerable and all. It is a dangerous sport no doubt, but I feel like the danger and safety is on a continuum. There is a thin line between getting better and damaging yourself in training, though it's a very tricky line to walk and there's different opinions on it where it should be drawn. The culture of a place or region really does play into it as well. The added short time mental boost of going through sparring wars, and surviving, in a way also has to be held up against the over time diminishing ability to take a punch and think clearly. It's not easy.

 

[Cheap Shot]

Lastly, they're both 18 and this was regular sparring.

Vargas is 14.

Different trainers run things different. We keep an eye on our sparring closely and don’t let things get out of hand. A kid gets dropped like that at our gym, he’s done for the day no questions asked. Wouldn’t have gotten that far, but if it had he gets shut down.

 

[Sinister]

Vargas is 14.

Different trainers run things different. We keep an eye on our sparring closely and don’t let things get out of hand. A kid gets dropped like that at our gym, he’s done for the day no questions asked. Wouldn’t have gotten that far, but if it had he gets shut down.

Correct on the age, I was confusing Emiliano with Amado, Amado's 18.

Good on your gym, though. Bit more sharky than that around here, anywhere in Vegas.

 

[ironkhan57]

If you get dropped in sparring real bad then yes let him take a round or 2 off, but if your training for a fight shouldn't you spar hard and continue after a 10 count?

 

[Cheap Shot]

If you get dropped in sparring real bad then yes let him take a round or 2 off, but if your training for a fight shouldn't you spar hard and continue after a 10 count?

Been a USA boxing coach since 2001, and there isn’t a coach I’ve EVER interacted with that would suggest this.

You get your shit pushed in and dropped to the point you can’t make a 10 count, you’re not doing more rounds. Better point, you get dropped to a degree that you wouldn’t make a 10 count, and any coach worth his salt is stepping in the ring and pulling your mouth piece.

Edit: This is a Tocco’s thread and I want to respect that and stay on topic. As I said before, coaches all do their own thing. From my decades in the support, I gave my personal 2 cents.

 

[Sinister]

I'm sorry I am being so reactive. I do admire your way of teaching the art of boxing and I've learned from watching your videos, so in a way I feel like I am overstepping my bounds. I'm at a place now if I see something I believe is not right, then I will address it, sometimes not considering the entire context. Be that to you or anyone else.

Smart not letting him spar for a while after that, even if he doesn't have obvious symptoms (or wont admit to them). I agree that it's entirely debateable which is worse, getting knocked down or getting beaten up for 36 minutes. Neither are very good.

I think it's solid that you inform them of the risks, although they probably wont comprehend it with them being young and feeling invulnerable and all. It is a dangerous sport no doubt, but I feel like the danger and safety is on a continuum. There is a thin line between getting better and damaging yourself in training, though it's a very tricky line to walk and there's different opinions on it where it should be drawn. The culture of a place or region really does play into it as well. The added short time mental boost of going through sparring wars, and surviving, in a way also has to be held up against the over time diminishing ability to take a punch and think clearly. It's not easy.

Well, I'm not responding nearly as candidly as I would had you been a guy I knew nothing about. But I know your personal experience so I'm keeping that in consideration. But yes, best to keep in mind you're seeing a small clip designed to illicit a reaction. The entire context is missing, visually.

Youre right in that they don't often consider the risks, until it becomes a reality. In terms of sparring wars, in my experience it depends on frequency. Just like fighting and receiving punches. Getting hit repeatedly over long periods of time has more damaging effects. Hence why taking a sustained beating tends to be medically worse on the brain. The knockout mechanism is a safety mechanism, the body getting itself out of danger (as much as it can in dire situations). Flash knockouts are less damaging granted no residual symptoms are present.

But when it comes to hard sparring, from my experience (and in this environment), the frequency is key factor. Guys like Terry Norris, Meldrick Taylor, even two high-level Pros around here I could name, when they're in sparring mode getting stopped or stopping the other guy is just that particular day. They'll be in the ring again the next day. I don't necessarily try to always prevent bad things from happening to my fighters (you can't exactly do that in a fight), but the main caution is exhibited around an incident. When I was at Top Rank gym, I saw two instances of a Pro getting knocked out cold in sparring, then within days knocking out the Pro that did it cold. I'm sure their trainer would argue the longer-term confidence boost of that, but I don't go that far. So that's my line.

Head-hunters don't end up well, also. When you put stuff out there like this you build a debt to pay. Either from the person who did it specifically, or from someone who takes exception to it. So even if we encounter that, I also do not allow my fighters to become that in response.

 

[Sinister]

Been a USA boxing coach since 2001, and there isn’t a coach I’ve EVER interacted with that would suggest this.

You get your shit pushed in and dropped to the point you can’t make a 10 count, you’re not doing more rounds. Better point, you get dropped to a degree that you wouldn’t make a 10 count, and any coach worth his salt is stepping in the ring and pulling your mouth piece.

Edit: This is a Tocco’s thread and I want to respect that and stay on topic. As I said before, coaches all do their own thing. From my decades in the support, I gave my personal 2 cents.

It's alright, you can speak your criticism. Because that entire post basically suggested that the difference between you and I is that I'm not worth my salt because I did not do what you would have done. Which if you DO feel that way, you don't need a disclaimer at the end about how respectful you want to appear. I understand the gravity of what you saw, how you feel about it, etc. This leads to a judgment, and that's your judgment of the whole situation, and me.

However, I did also state above that Cesar wasn't as hurt as it appeared. He stayed down to regroup, and out of frustration. When people got in the ring and tried to check on him he showed his lucidity. That he got any redemption out of it (even only 30 more seconds worth or so) did a lot towards his confidence. The gym is more controlled than a fight, there's no 10 count. A guy gets hurt they can take as long as they want or need.

But out of actual respect, had you done your thing (even if I disagreed, for whatever reason), I'd never imply you're a shitty trainer. As for other coaches, I could tell you stories that would make your skin crawl. It's a bit surprising you've not encountered any of that in 17 years because I could name you about 10 fairly famous active Amateurs (not all from Vegas) right this second who have been allowed to continue sparring after being knocked flat, and not just finish the round, but keep going. Even taken to other gyms that same day and put in with someone completely different, which is completely against the rules.

 

[Cheap Shot]

My second reply had nothing to do with you or your gym, which is why I believe this thread not to be the place for it. It was a direct response Ironkhan57, and has nothing do with what happened with Caesar. The clip ends essentially immediately after he hits the canvas, so there is no way for me to know if he sat there for more than 10 seconds.

I've seen absolutely BRUTAL knock outs around here during sparring and fight nights, and I've seen plenty of shitty trainers sit their with their dick in their hands (not at all what I'm implying occurred in the clip). Seen plenty more allow a kid to continue when you can tell they clearly don't prioritize fighter safety.

I can also say that this is truly atypical of the local culture. Novice ammy all the way to high level pros, the trainers (myself included) are much quicker to step in.

Speaking directly of Caesar in this situation, you mentioned he told people to back the fuck up and basically let him work. I tell fighters when they fight, not the other way around. I would have told him shut his mouth and remember the name on the door of the gym he walked into. Again, I'm sure the reason you allowed Caesar to continue is because you assessed the situation and decided he was fight to box, but just wanted to comment on that sort of "attitude" in sparring.

Every time I take that coaches test, they remind me that the number one job I have as a coach is the safety of my boxers. Where we draw the line as trainers varies, but I take it very much to heart personally and would rather stop a fight or sparring 5 seconds early than 1 second late.

 

[Sinister]

Yeah they edit the clip in that matter FOR that dramatic effect. And I hear ya, I'm not going to keep the back-and-forth going on this because there's no need. Just glad we could clarify further. Our lines are definitely a tad different, and I've known guys personally who died doing this. And I don't mean from dementia later in life, I mean both under 26 years old. I might be a bit more of a Steve Smoger type, but I don't take safety any less seriously (albeit I do not agree that that's the top priority of a Coach, that's a whole other argument).

 

[Sano]

Well, I'm not responding nearly as candidly as I would had you been a guy I knew nothing about. But I know your personal experience so I'm keeping that in consideration. But yes, best to keep in mind you're seeing a small clip designed to illicit a reaction. The entire context is missing, visually.

Youre right in that they don't often consider the risks, until it becomes a reality. In terms of sparring wars, in my experience it depends on frequency. Just like fighting and receiving punches. Getting hit repeatedly over long periods of time has more damaging effects. Hence why taking a sustained beating tends to be medically worse on the brain. The knockout mechanism is a safety mechanism, the body getting itself out of danger (as much as it can in dire situations). Flash knockouts are less damaging granted no residual symptoms are present.

But when it comes to hard sparring, from my experience (and in this environment), the frequency is key factor. Guys like Terry Norris, Meldrick Taylor, even two high-level Pros around here I could name, when they're in sparring mode getting stopped or stopping the other guy is just that particular day. They'll be in the ring again the next day. I don't necessarily try to always prevent bad things from happening to my fighters (you can't exactly do that in a fight), but the main caution is exhibited around an incident. When I was at Top Rank gym, I saw two instances of a Pro getting knocked out cold in sparring, then within days knocking out the Pro that did it cold. I'm sure their trainer would argue the longer-term confidence boost of that, but I don't go that far. So that's my line.

Head-hunters don't end up well, also. When you put stuff out there like this you build a debt to pay. Either from the person who did it specifically, or from someone who takes exception to it. So even if we encounter that, I also do not allow my fighters to become that in response.

Just a few things in regards to the loss of consciousness (LOC) thing. I've heard it said a few times that it's a safety mechanism, but I never understood where it came from. As far as I know it's not really known exactly what causes LOC, but it's on the basis of the trauma itself. Most neurologists suggest that is has to do with alterede neurochemistry and the sudden influx of ions, a decrease in blood flow or a disruption in the "formatio reticularis" which is basicly the center that controls breathing and other autonomic functions in the brain. One thing is for sure, it is a result of a direct brain impact with the skull. It's true that you don't need LOC to sustain a concussion, and that small concussive and subconcussive blows add up to be equally dangerous, but as far as the most damage in short term the evidence suggests that sustaining a LOC means a greater traumatic injury. The recovery rate however doesn't necessarily follow the initial gradient of injury and can be faster, even with LOC, depending on the individual.

In regards to the overall theme, I don't know man. I understand where you are coming from but I just don't relate to the whole machismo recklessness. I understand other places might be much worse, but to me the culture sounds self destructive. I'm much more on board with @Cheap Shot 's philosphy in this regard.

 

[Sinister]

Fair enough, but I don't consider it a "machismo" thing. For me it's about the nature of the job. The job itself is brutal, you're either confident and fit to handle that or not. And even those confident AND fit to handle it can end up face down on the matt. If every person that happened to quit, there'd be no boxing. If we wanted actual safety, there'd be no boxing. There comes a point in time where safety is not only not promised, but you're in a situation where it is continuously decreasing and the whole point of the craft is to be able to get through that.

Now, another thing about me personally is that if I see a pattern of technical stagnation (a fighter cannot learn the means to defend themselves), I send them away and recommend they not do this. Same if I ever have a fighter who begins to show degradation. But all this comes down to personal perspective as well. To me, we only actually have so much control and to think otherwise is hubris, and ends up undermining existence (the right to choose your fate). Some would say that indeed makes me a shitty leader as I undervalue "safety" ...however there are things I've done out of compassion that others wouldn't and I'm careful of what battles I choose. Hell if you look hard enough on Instagram there was a clip posted recently of me STOPPING a hard sparring session because a kid got out of line, also posted without context, and I got criticized FOR stopping it. So I don't pretend to be able to please everyone. But some feel my perspective makes me a viable leader because while I have compassion, I won't prevent you from experiencing the adversity you may need in order to grow. Thus, when you hit the deck where it truly matters, you'll know you can get through it and I, as a teacher, don't take it as a personalized slight if you fall, nor do I abandon.

It could appear as if I'm not concerned, or rather afraid, of what could happen to my fighters. To that I say that it's not that, I just know that said fear never goes away and I'm not afraid to be afraid anymore.

 

[Sano]

Fair enough, but I don't consider it a "machismo" thing. For me it's about the nature of the job. The job itself is brutal, you're either confident and fit to handle that or not. And even those confident AND fit to handle it can end up face down on the matt. If every person that happened to quit, there'd be no boxing. If we wanted actual safety, there'd be no boxing. There comes a point in time where safety is not only not promised, but you're in a situation where it is continuously decreasing and the whole point of the craft is to be able to get through that.

Now, another thing about me personally is that if I see a pattern of technical stagnation (a fighter cannot learn the means to defend themselves), I send them away and recommend they not do this. Same if I ever have a fighter who begins to show degradation. But all this comes down to personal perspective as well. To me, we only actually have so much control and to think otherwise is hubris, and ends up undermining existence (the right to choose your fate). Some would say that indeed makes me a shitty leader as I undervalue "safety" ...however there are things I've done out of compassion that others wouldn't and I'm careful of what battles I choose. Hell if you look hard enough on Instagram there was a clip posted recently of me STOPPING a hard sparring session because a kid got out of line, also posted without context, and I got criticized FOR stopping it. So I don't pretend to be able to please everyone. But some feel my perspective makes me a viable leader because while I have compassion, I won't prevent you from experiencing the adversity you may need in order to grow. Thus, when you hit the deck where it truly matters, you'll know you can get through it and I, as a teacher, don't take it as a personalized slight if you fall, nor do I abandon.

It could appear as if I'm not concerned, or rather afraid, of what could happen to my fighters. To that I say that it's not that, I just know that said fear never goes away and I'm not afraid to be afraid anymore.

I don't disagree with the overaching point and I see where you are coming from, but to me it comes down to how we choose to grapple with the beast that is martial arts and fight sports. We both know the inherent violence of its nature, but there's a place between chaos and order. It's about where we feel that line should be drawn, like you did with the other kid for whatever contextual reason. I don't subscribe to the premise that a fighter needs to be pushed to the brink of safety during training or get stopped and rocked, as a natural mechanism of the training. It's unavoidable as a side effect, but not as a principle. I'm not even convinced that beating heart into someone is even possible and doesn't have the opposite effect. In my view, keep the brain relatively healthy (within reason, you do need to get punched), cognition sharp and save the real damage for the fights. Coming up through the amateur ranks the fighters will get their hearts and heads tested. That's my take.

With that I definitely think that if you manage hard sparring volume, keep the fighters in shape, make sure they recover and have them well trained you can get away with pushing them more. The parameters matters as well.

Anyway, I think we understand each others point of view.

 

[ironkhan57]

Fair enough, but I don't consider it a "machismo" thing. For me it's about the nature of the job. The job itself is brutal, you're either confident and fit to handle that or not. And even those confident AND fit to handle it can end up face down on the matt. If every person that happened to quit, there'd be no boxing. If we wanted actual safety, there'd be no boxing. There comes a point in time where safety is not only not promised, but you're in a situation where it is continuously decreasing and the whole point of the craft is to be able to get through that.

Now, another thing about me personally is that if I see a pattern of technical stagnation (a fighter cannot learn the means to defend themselves), I send them away and recommend they not do this. Same if I ever have a fighter who begins to show degradation. But all this comes down to personal perspective as well. To me, we only actually have so much control and to think otherwise is hubris, and ends up undermining existence (the right to choose your fate). Some would say that indeed makes me a shitty leader as I undervalue "safety" ...however there are things I've done out of compassion that others wouldn't and I'm careful of what battles I choose. Hell if you look hard enough on Instagram there was a clip posted recently of me STOPPING a hard sparring session because a kid got out of line, also posted without context, and I got criticized FOR stopping it. So I don't pretend to be able to please everyone. But some feel my perspective makes me a viable leader because while I have compassion, I won't prevent you from experiencing the adversity you may need in order to grow. Thus, when you hit the deck where it truly matters, you'll know you can get through it and I, as a teacher, don't take it as a personalized slight if you fall, nor do I abandon.

It could appear as if I'm not concerned, or rather afraid, of what could happen to my fighters. To that I say that it's not that, I just know that said fear never goes away and I'm not afraid to be afraid anymore.

I like your philosophy better, because you actually treat your fighters like fighters and not stop it after a hard knock down. You give them time to recover which is what you should do if your training for a fight. But if your not then their should be no reason to do some hard sparring.