When did Tyson's prime end?

[CastletonSnob]

There's a bit of a debate on when Tyson was past his prime. Was it after he came back from prison? Was it after being upset by Douglas? Or was he already past it by the time he fought Douglas?

 

[jreez]

I'd say Don King putting his team in to train Tyson, he should've stayed with Rooney imo.

 

[burningspear]

Yeah Rooney trained Tyson was unbeatable.

 

[proncley]

Mike and Rooney were a dream team. Casuals often bring up Cus D'Amato, which is bollocks...Cus was dead when Mike's star started to rise as a pro.
To quote Cus himself, he possibly said it to Rooney ... "The work is done. Now you just have to keep him busy".

Mike got complacent. With Rooney, he lived like a robot...eat, sleep, train.
Rooney commented on Mike's fights without him, you can google his interviews from 25 years ago...he pointed out how Mike didn't seem in proper shape and how the head movement and whatnot was gone.

 

[Sunfish]

When he split with Rooney. Cus was important because mike didn’t go full crazy as early as he likely would have and we would never have heard of him?

 

[Uptown Swinger]

Although he won by ko, I could tell Mike had lost a step when he fought Piston Honda in Japan.

 

[Seano]

There's a bit of a debate on when Tyson was past his prime. Was it after he came back from prison? Was it after being upset by Douglas? Or was he already past it by the time he fought Douglas?

I think he still had a lot left after the Douglas fight. He was probably still in his prime, though you could see his speed declined badly when he got out of prison. He was still pretty sharp for the first Holyfield fight but after that he sort of turned into just a big puncher where he once had a style built around speed and explosiveness.

edit- his issue with Douglas wasn't his prime, it was his lifestyle.

 

[tekkennlee]

The question was when was Mike Tyson prime ended, the question wasn't when did Mike Tyson lose focus or get lazy and lost his first fight and lost his so-called invincibly, because Mike Tyson wasn't invincible.

The Buster Douglas fight was in 1990, no way Tyson"s prime ended in 1990, at that young age of his boxing career, we could say he lost focus because of the rape allegations and this is why Mike lost. But i would say Tyson lost, because he fought a better fighter that night in Japan.

I will answer the question asked.

Mike Tyson prime Boxing years ended after the Holyfield fights, I would say 1999, the F Bolta fight, Mike really started showing hand speed problems and head movement problems along with punching accuracy problems.

In 2002 Mike Tyson was basically done his time had ended competing with the top champions and contenders. Mike Tyson was 35 years old at this time in his career, so just like most Heavy Weight fighters at this age and smaller weight classes Tyson was finished, at this time Mike was just fighting to pay his Taxes and other bills.

I would say starting the F Bolta fight, Mike Tyson"s prime ended.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

The question was when was Mike Tyson prime ended, the question wasn't when did Mike Tyson lose focus or get lazy and lost his first fight and lost his so-called invincibly, because Mike Tyson wasn't invincible.

The Buster Douglas fight was in 1990, no way Tyson"s prime ended in 1990, at that young age of his boxing career, we could say he lost focus because of the rape allegations and this is why Mike lost. But i would say Tyson lost, because he fought a better fighter that night in Japan.

I will answer the question asked.

Mike Tyson prime Boxing years ended after the Holyfield fights, I would say 1999, the F Bolta fight, Mike really started showing hand speed problems and head movement problems along with punching accuracy problems.

In 2002 Mike Tyson was basically done his time had ended competing with the top champions and contenders. Mike Tyson was 35 years old at this time in his career, so just like most Heavy Weight fighters at this age and smaller weight classes Tyson was finished, at this time Mike was just fighting to pay his Taxes and other bills.

I would say starting the F Bolta fight, Mike Tyson"s prime ended.

I think you are warm here. Prime typically denotes when physical attributes are at their strongest coupled with skillset. Tyson's achilles heel was in his head, which caused his "prime" to end early.

 

[stephen90]

The question was when was Mike Tyson prime ended, the question wasn't when did Mike Tyson lose focus or get lazy and lost his first fight and lost his so-called invincibly, because Mike Tyson wasn't invincible.

The Buster Douglas fight was in 1990, no way Tyson"s prime ended in 1990, at that young age of his boxing career, we could say he lost focus because of the rape allegations and this is why Mike lost. But i would say Tyson lost, because he fought a better fighter that night in Japan.

I will answer the question asked.

Mike Tyson prime Boxing years ended after the Holyfield fights, I would say 1999, the F Bolta fight, Mike really started showing hand speed problems and head movement problems along with punching accuracy problems.

In 2002 Mike Tyson was basically done his time had ended competing with the top champions and contenders. Mike Tyson was 35 years old at this time in his career, so just like most Heavy Weight fighters at this age and smaller weight classes Tyson was finished, at this time Mike was just fighting to pay his Taxes and other bills.

I would say starting the F Bolta fight, Mike Tyson"s prime ended.

You can tell Tyson really lost his heart by the time his fought Botha.

 

[borntoloseNOT]

Whether or not it ended in/around the Botha fight, Tyson's prime was over by that point. The fact it took Tyson til 5 to catch Botha in a fight he was losing tells you all you need to know.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

Who even knows. Probably around Ruddock honestly. Once he went to jail it was basically over.

Yes he was in his prime for Douglas. He just trained like an idiot. So fuck him. I am not giving him a pass for that.

Great fighter for a short period no doubt.

 

[Breakfast Bar]

In his early 20s, seconds before,the Douglas fight.

 

[Koondrecht]

Mike and Rooney were a dream team. Casuals often bring up Cus D'Amato, which is bollocks...Cus was dead when Mike's star started to rise as a pro.
To quote Cus himself, he possibly said it to Rooney ... "The work is done. Now you just have to keep him busy".

Mike got complacent. With Rooney, he lived like a robot...eat, sleep, train.
Rooney commented on Mike's fights without him, you can google his interviews from 25 years ago...he pointed out how Mike didn't seem in proper shape and how the head movement and whatnot was gone.

link google interview please

 

[codfather]

His peak was 1989, age 23.

But he was still an elite heavyweight in 1996, age 30

By the time he fought Lennox Lewis, he was shot to pieces.

 

[rb3b3]

Douglas was down for 10seconds, even tho mike trained like sht and basically stopped caring he still shouldve won.

Yes im a tyson guy and ill say douglas was down for 10 seconds to my grave!!

when he went to jail he was done. never the same.

 

[tekkennlee]

I think you are warm here. Prime typically denotes when physical attributes are at their strongest coupled with skillset. Tyson's achilles heel was in his head, which caused his "prime" to end early.

That's not true, Fighters prime means their reflexes and timing being at their peek and no noticeable Brain trauma being detected, just losing focus and being lazy is not being out of Prime.


Mike Tyson was still in his Prime after Buster Douglas because Mike was still able to capture the Heavyweight Championship and the only reason why he lost it was because he happened to fight a better all around Boxer in Evander Holyfield and lost to him twice with Holyfield beating him easily and knocking Tyson out in their first fight and that's why Tyson lost, not because he was past his prime.

Being lazy and not mentally focused doesn't and has nothing to do with being past prime, but some Boxers even all time greats lose their skills and medal abilities even at a young age of their careers.

James toney being an example of a lazy fighter but not past prime and still went up to Heavyweight and won a title but after being stripped of that title and even beating Holyfield and after losing the title still fighting and beating top big Heavyweight contenders coming up from Middleweight.

James Toney"s mental focus and bad eating habits and laziness, having him lose important title fights have been discussed and no one ever says Toney was past prime after those loses.

So why does Mike Tyson get this excuse from certain fans?

Example of young world champions prime boxing years ended early at a young age, do to to much head trauma, or lose of reflexes, which we call in boxing being a shot fighter.

Mildrick Taylor, shot fighter after Chavez, prime years lost early in his career.

Riddick Bowe, shot fighter early in his career noticeable slurred speech after the Golota fights, having to retire due to much head trauma, even though he was lazy, you can't ignore the noticeable slurred speech and massive head shots in the wars with Holyfield and against Golota, just listen to his speech after the second Golota fight and everyone was saying he should retire, something isn't right, Lue Duva was screening this to HBO and the fans.

Adrian Broner a world champion is now a shot fighter at a very young age, not being able to pull the trigger and everyone notices this, just like Mildrick Taylor.

Muhammad Ali, lost his abilities at a young age losing his prime abilities early because of Parkinson"s disease and trainers noticing this during the Joe Frazier fights, it has been documented by quotes from trainers. Doctors even saying it could of started earlier in his life.

Some Boxers lose their Prime years earlier then others, but Mike Tyson wasn't a shot fighter at an early age, he just lost to a better fighter that night, then went to prison and did his time came back and won a championship, then lost to a better fighter again twice, then started losing his natural reflexes and timing due to age, losing again to Lennox Lewis and then was done as a fighter.

The problem is people don't want to admit that their favorite Boxer happened to get beat by a better fighter then himself and just make excuses that he was losing his Prime early due to losing mental focus, but that's not losing their Prime early, it's just being lazy and stupid and this isn't a valid excuse for anyone.

 

[tekkennlee]

Douglas was down for 10seconds, even tho mike trained like sht and basically stopped caring he still shouldve won.

Yes im a tyson guy and ill say douglas was down for 10 seconds to my grave!!

when he went to jail he was done. never the same.

Tyson wasn't even gassed against Buster Douglas at all he was fighting his ass off and even had the legs to get up after that brutal knockdown and his body didn't show any weight problems, Tyson was cut and looked great.

Mike trained for that fight, his conditioning wasn't his problem, it was his limited skills that lost him that fight. Tyson couldn't fight on the outside and needed to close the distance against Douglas and everyone else really fast,, because of his natural physical limitations being 5ft-11 and really short arms, that's why the peekaboo, swarmer style was invented for shorter boxers with limited natural abilities, otherwise taller bigger fighters would just destroy them on the outside using their reach height and weight.

Buster Douglas was kicking Mikes ass on the inside and outside jabbing Mike to death and when Tyson closed the distance Douglas was eating his ass up on the inside not showing any fear of Tyson"s so called invincible armor.

Evander Holyfield did the same thing to Tyson"s ass not showing any fear for Mikes power and intimidation and beating Tyson on the inside and outside, taking away allof Tyson"s abilities he had to win their fight, away from Mike and stopping him.

This is why this boxing style was invented and why short fighters use it and why it can be countered easily and beat, due to their limited natural, physical abilities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_styles_and_technique

The swarmer (in-fighter, crowder) is a fighter who attempts to overwhelm his opponent by applying constant pressure — taking away an opponent's spacing and timing. Swarmers tend to have a very good bob and weave, good power, a good chin, and a tremendous punch output (resulting in a great need for stamina and conditioning). This style favors closing inside an opponent, overwhelming them with intensity and flurries of hooks and uppercuts. They tend to be fast on their feet which can make them difficult to evade for a slower fighter; or are great at cutting the ring with precise footwork. They also tend to have a good "chin" because this style usually involves being hit with many jabs before they can maneuver inside where they are more effective.[1] Many swarmers are often either shorter fighters or fighters with shorter reaches, especially in the heavier classes, that have to get in close to be effective. Tommy Burns was the shortest Heavyweight champion at 5'7, while Rocky Marciano had the shortest reach at 67-68 inches. One exception is Jack Dempsey, who was nearly 6'1 with a 77-inch reach. Famous swarmers include Henry Armstrong, Carmen Basilio, Nigel Benn, Melio Bettina,[2] Burns, Julio Cesar Chavez, Steve Collins, Jack Dempsey, Joe Frazier, Kid Gavilan, Gennady Golovkin, Román González, Harry Greb, Emile Griffith, Fighting Harada, Ricky Hatton, Jake LaMotta, Rocky Marciano, Terry McGovern,[3] Sam McVey, Battling Nelson, Bobo Olson, Manuel Ortiz, Floyd Patterson, Aaron Pryor, Alexander Povetkin, Sailor Tom Sharkey, David Tua, Mike Tyson, Micky Ward, Wilfredo Gomez and Mickey Walker.[4][5]

Fighters using this style cannot fight on the outside, because of their short stature and short arms, if you can beat them on the inside and outside they will never beat you, ever, because of your superior boxing abilities and your natural physical advantage and your ability to take their punching power.

This is why, Buster Douglas and Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis and other superior boxers who can take Tyson"s punching power and can fight on the inside and outside, beat Tyson every time, they will always beat Mike even if Mike was 100%, why because he can't hurt them, or can't land that perfect power punch, Buster Douglas got up and Evander just took it, just smiled and kept coming and that's when Mike knew he was toast and couldn't win, in all three fights.

Yes im a Tyson guy and i made this excuse, but i studied boxing and styles learning how to box and i have admitted Mike got his ass beat in the Douglas fight.

That count was the same count Tyson got, that Douglas got. The times keeper had his own count and the Referee had his own count, but both fighters were given the same identical count.

Video proof below

Tyson vs. Douglas - identical 10-counts Douglas had his legs and wasn't out on his feet, but Tyson was out on his feet with shaky legs wobbling, Videotape doesn't lie unless its altered and i highly doubt this is.

 

[treelo]

Douglas was down for 10seconds, even tho mike trained like sht and basically stopped caring he still shouldve won.

Yes im a tyson guy and ill say douglas was down for 10 seconds to my grave!!

that's not the way boxing works, i always found it funny that people brought that up all the time

the ref is the one counting, not you, not a fucking stopwatch not anything else, you have until the ref counts to 10 to get up....not some other fucking shit afterwards....and that also includes the fucking idiot twats who tried at the time, and still claim this shit now

 

[rb3b3]

that's not the way boxing works, i always found it funny that people brought that up all the time

the ref is the one counting, not you, not a fucking stopwatch not anything else, you have until the ref counts to 10 to get up....not some other fucking shit afterwards....and that also includes the fucking idiot twats who tried at the time, and still claim this shit now

the ref is supposed to pick up the count from the official at ringside which he didnt do. he started his own count from one.. and leave me alone tysons my fav fighter of all time just agree with me so we can b friends