When will Cuba hold a Professional Boxing

manlyseaeagle

manlyseaeagle

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I'm I right in thinking Cuba might be the only country in that world that doesn't have Professional Boxing and I don't mean WSC and just wonder if they will eventually have the pro game back.
BTW I'm sure Pro Boxing doesn't exist in some of the poorer countries or extreme places but thats another subject maybe ?
 
i think sweden banned boxing didn't they? Ironically, many of the boxers didn't seem to mind the communism teofilo stevenson never said a bad word about it. Others fought off sharks to get here and give it a go. I watched a docu on cuba, fascinating, it was like stuck in time, cars from 50 years ago on the streets but one thing I noticed clear as day, even though it wasn't the point of the docu, White cubans hated communism and castro, black cubans loved it, that told me a lot about the country and what happened beforehand. Communism made poor folks out of white cubans. same dynamic i saw with a buddy of mine, you know how we're raised here to think Ghandi is a saint" well, this fucker hates ghandi and I finally found out why, he told me recently he's from a high caste in india and ol' ghandi fucked it up with all his hunger strikes and shit. No one likes to lose an inch much less a lot more.
 
mozfonky said:
Ironically, many of the boxers didn't seem to mind the communism teofilo stevenson never said a bad word about it.
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Yeah, it's funny: Most people living under a Communist system don't badmouth it. I wonder why...
 
they were in the docum that's what i'm saying, only the white cubans, i think most of them were exiles but that's impossible to miss. with my east indian buddy, he's said that peole don't openly talk about ghandi but everyone knows he's a "motherfucker" in his words. I'd be curious to hear from other people though. and really, how much changes in 50-100 years? there's got to be things that are so ingrained in certain places like india and china that won't change overnight. issues such as "face" won't change because of an economy and infrastructure.
 
mozfonky said:
i think sweden banned boxing didn't they? Ironically, many of the boxers didn't seem to mind the communism teofilo stevenson never said a bad word about it. Others fought off sharks to get here and give it a go. I watched a docu on cuba, fascinating, it was like stuck in time, cars from 50 years ago on the streets but one thing I noticed clear as day, even though it wasn't the point of the docu, White cubans hated communism and castro, black cubans loved it, that told me a lot about the country and what happened beforehand. Communism made poor folks out of white cubans. same dynamic i saw with a buddy of mine, you know how we're raised here to think Ghandi is a saint" well, this fucker hates ghandi and I finally found out why, he told me recently he's from a high caste in india and ol' ghandi fucked it up with all his hunger strikes and shit. No one likes to lose an inch much less a lot more.
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what about all the cubans who werent black or white? There are more of them than blacks there.
 
Jimmy Jazz said:
what about all the cubans who werent black or white? There are more of them than blacks there.
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i don't know how they feel, that's an interesting question, the docu i saw only had two kinds of people, either lightskinned latins or darkskinned latins, I admittedly don't know a ton about it but I can't totally buy anyone's propaganda, especially america's. speaking to people from china, some of the think totally different than how we're thought to think of mao. it's all propaganda really, i don't know if there can be any heroes at that sphere of things. not mao, not castro, stalin or any of them.
 
I often wonder the 'What If's' the old USSR Eastern European countries and Cuba were allowed to go pro back in the 60's to the 80's/90's and wonder how good it would of been in the Ali, Frazier, Foreman years then the Hagler,Leonard,Hearns and Duran era and then onto Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe and also the middleweights at the time with Jones and Toney and Benn and Eubank.....mouthwatering.
 
the thing is, ali, and the rest beat those top russians as amateurs, they'd have surely don't it more decisively as pros. Just one index of how american boxing has really gone extinct. We're speaking of may/mac in another thread, i said before the fight that we'd never seen pac fight someone who used lateral movement and I didn't think he'd be able to handle it, back in earlier times, it would have been impossible for him to have gone that long in his career and not have had to deal with lateral movement, one piece of the puzzle american fighters left a vacuum for in modern boxing. Ironically, Muhammad ali, a proponent of the old lateral movement, got much of his style from flash elorde.
 
mozfonky said:
i don't know how they feel, that's an interesting question, the docu i saw only had two kinds of people, either lightskinned latins or darkskinned latins, I admittedly don't know a ton about it but I can't totally buy anyone's propaganda, especially america's. speaking to people from china, some of the think totally different than how we're thought to think of mao. it's all propaganda really, i don't know if there can be any heroes at that sphere of things. not mao, not castro, stalin or any of them.
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its pretty likely alot of the people you consider black don't consider themselves such in that doc. whats the name of the doc?
 
Jimmy Jazz said:
its pretty likely alot of the people you consider black don't consider themselves such in that doc. whats the name of the doc?
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I forgot the name of it, it came in a bundle with an ali docu and something else i can't remember offhand. It was one of those history channels like discovery. As far as the cubans not thinking they were black, they weren't the kind of blacks other countries in latin america have, they were dark, not too mixed so I doubt that even if they weren't considered "black" (probably right there) they were definitely on the bottom of the caste in cuba before and it was obvious that the lighter skinned ones and the expatriates all hated castro and the black said things had gotten better, no coincidence i don't think.
 
mozfonky said:
i think sweden banned boxing didn't they? Ironically, many of the boxers didn't seem to mind the communism teofilo stevenson never said a bad word about it. Others fought off sharks to get here and give it a go. I watched a docu on cuba, fascinating, it was like stuck in time, cars from 50 years ago on the streets but one thing I noticed clear as day, even though it wasn't the point of the docu, White cubans hated communism and castro, black cubans loved it, that told me a lot about the country and what happened beforehand. Communism made poor folks out of white cubans. same dynamic i saw with a buddy of mine, you know how we're raised here to think Ghandi is a saint" well, this fucker hates ghandi and I finally found out why, he told me recently he's from a high caste in india and ol' ghandi fucked it up with all his hunger strikes and shit. No one likes to lose an inch much less a lot more.
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Good points, but as to why the whites hated it and blacks did not is bringing up a potentially ugly debate about success, IQ and a bunch of other things with implications to race, intelligence and success. Many would argue that IQ and race are a biological reality, and that the higher the IQ, the higher chance for success. Communism has failed everywhere because it takes from the high IQ population, gives to the low IQ and the high IQ ones become unmotivated or move out. In South Africa (or Zimbabwe in the past) they are dealing with something similar, with the whole farming catastrophe, where the white Boer farmers are having their 300 year old land land seized and given to people that know nothing about farming and have average IQ's of 80, thus making the whole country starve. Places with homogeneous high IQ populations, like Iceland, are much better suited for socialism, as everyone relatively puts in their fair share and carries their own weight, not the intelligencia being punished while the lower IQ people free load.

Im not claiming to be an expert on it but that would atleast be one of the counter arguments, or there jist of it. Communist countries always seem to have poor health care, poorer living conditions and the elite always seem to want to migrate, whether it be in China or Russia.
 
I'm not a big believer in iq at all and I don't think an IQ dictates what a person makes or how useful a person is to a society. Jordan Peterson said that an iq of 85 or so would be rejected by the canadian army because anything they did was counterproductive. that's really hard to believe, at least some of it. I have a brother who was in special classes in school and truth be told, he was a lot more useful to society than I have been. He's a careworker, i've squandered lots of time on martial arts and music. There are plenty of jobs out there dumb people can make a good living at, I see them all the time. and some of those dumb people can be pretty clever and smart in a lot of ways. I have customers I work for who are much better educated than i, lawyers, they make a lot more money but i scratch my head sometimes when I see things they struggle with around their house, i don't get it, i really don't, i know they are smart but god, you'd think they're idiots if you didn't know them and their backgrounds, I love em so i hate to say it, but its true. Now, my east indian buddy, he was born into what he called a "golden caste" but he don't seem to swift either, in fact, in a lot of ways I feel like i have to talk to him like a little kid, part of that is just naivety but I don't know if that's all it is, thank god his kids are good students. I guess what I'm saying is, I don't think iq is everything, i do know that certain people have it easier than others in this world, just the way it is, fate/luck. It's like the stray cats I've always taken in, they aren't much different than any other cats but they got lucky to find someone who'd take care of them. Lots of things in life that people like to take credit for are just luck. As far as africans being dumb, which I think some people really believe, I've never been there, my best friend doesn't say anything negative about them, he's worked in rhodesia for the last few years for weeks at a time and he speaks of those people in a way as if they were a higher species of human, there's more to worth than an iq, decenty should count too. And I'll tell you one other thing, by race, jews and asians are supposed to have the highest iq's and honestly, i live in a city full of asians and it never ceases to amaze me the dumb shit I see them doing. As for my people, native americans, I never thought i'd score too high on a test like that, and i was actually surprised that the average Indian iq was about 100, that really surprised me, I'd assumed it be borderline retarded. Also, east indians surprised me, they were pretty low but they have such numbers that even if they had half the genius rate of everyone else they'd still have plenty of them.
 
mozfonky said:
i think sweden banned boxing didn't they? Ironically, many of the boxers didn't seem to mind the communism teofilo stevenson never said a bad word about it. Others fought off sharks to get here and give it a go. I watched a docu on cuba, fascinating, it was like stuck in time, cars from 50 years ago on the streets but one thing I noticed clear as day, even though it wasn't the point of the docu, White cubans hated communism and castro, black cubans loved it, that told me a lot about the country and what happened beforehand. Communism made poor folks out of white cubans. same dynamic i saw with a buddy of mine, you know how we're raised here to think Ghandi is a saint" well, this fucker hates ghandi and I finally found out why, he told me recently he's from a high caste in india and ol' ghandi fucked it up with all his hunger strikes and shit. No one likes to lose an inch much less a lot more.
Click to expand...
Yet Castro lived it up in his villa with his private boat and hookers yet made the the country go backwards.
Can never underside middle-class communists supporters like the ones you get on campus or the ones who support the British Labour yet have never lived in a Communist country ?
 
manlyseaeagle said:
Yet Castro lived it up in his villa with his private boat and hookers yet made the the country go backwards.
Can never underside middle-class communists supporters like the ones you get on campus or the ones who support the British Labour yet have never lived in a Communist country ?
Click to expand...
i'm sure he did, and i'm sure he did all kinds of negative things. As far as kids and communism, well, they're kids, they don't know their ass from their lips. As for me? I kinda wonder what some of my old martial arts mentors and trainers who'd been all over the world mean with what they say. My mentor Taky Kimura, Japanese camp internee and bruce lee's best pal would tell me "I've been all over the world and this is the best system there is" inspite of getting his ass locked up for 3-4 years and my other trainer, who was also Japanese would say "american's are such crybabies, I've been all over the world and they have real problems in other countries". So what do they mean? Are they talking about how much food people have? money? I'm not sure, but I do see the immigrants who come here and will work hard for stuff that's meaningless to me, shiny stuff, that shit i meaningless to me. You only need so much food so it can't be just that, although I won't dismiss the real occurrence of starvation on earth. What's more, I don't understand how people all over the earth, america included, live so fucking scared of everything, scared of losing whatever little they have. We let these assholes, which is what they are , be they a boss, a dictator, president we let them all just run all over us really.
 
treelo said:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Red-Corner-Journey-Cuban-Boxing/dp/0224051474

That is a very very good read, it doesnt touch on the politics some people are trying to expand in here, but t gives a great insight into Cuban Boxing
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how can it not touch on politics if they are discussing how they were trying to put a fight together between Tyson and savon? Cuba had a rich boxing history though, certainly, great fighters, Kid Gavilan, I'll check but wasn't Panama Al Brown from there? Dundee's exiled stable of really good fighters who had a hand in influencing the young Cassius Clay. I remember when I was 16, a cuban boxer came to our gym, he'd bragged about knocking out Pat Jefferson who had recently fought Alexis Arguello, ( i cfound out through boxrec that it was true) He was loud, brash and the last time I saw him, he was telling some cops he'd kick their asses if they weren't in uniform. His story was he got here on that boatlift where castro said he flushed his toilets on america. He was a prisoner who killed a man beating his mom (or so he said). He died a few years ago, was homeless got hit by a car but had come to be known and loved in the community he was in so he had to be more than what I saw of him when I was a kid.
 
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mozfonky said:
how can it not touch on politics if they are discussing how they were trying to put a fight together between Tyson and savon? Cuba had a rich boxing history though, certainly, great fighters, Kid Gavilan, I'll check but wasn't Panama Al Brown from there? Dundee's exiled stable of really good fighters who had a hand in influencing the young Cassius Clay. I remember when I was 16, a cuban boxer came to our gym, he'd bragged about knocking out Pat Jefferson who had recently fought Alexis Arguello, ( i cfound out through boxrec that it was true) He was loud, brash and the last time I saw him, he was telling some cops he'd kick their asses if they weren't in uniform. His story was he got here on that boatlift where castro said he flushed his toilets on america. He was a prisoner who killed a man beating his mom (or so he said). He died a few years ago, was homeless got his by a car but had come to be known and loved in the community he was in so he had to be more than what I saw of him when I was a kid.
Click to expand...

Read it and find out!

Or read my post where it says "not the type of politics that is being discussed in here"

Its a very very good book
 
treelo said:
Read it and find out!

Or read my post where it says "not the type of politics that is being discussed in here"

Its a very very good book
Click to expand...
man i got a thousand books that i haven't read yet, i don't have time for another.
 
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