Which branch is superior - The Air Force or The Navy?

[Hog-train]

For enlisting purposes - Air Force has the most benefits.

 

[faustian]

Isn't the US Navy the world's 2nd strongest air force? How many battleships does the Air Force have?

The Navy is why we can project force literally anywhere on the planet at any given time

 

[SMillard]

Did not know that about the GED requirement. What I do know is that getting your GED today is much harder than it was in the late 80s. I joined the U.S. Army through the National Guard when I graduated from college. I enlisted as a PFC. After completion of OCS I had the chance to go to Ranger school. Airborne and Ranger school slots were limited, and if you were a recycle, you got sent home, not join up with the next class. All do to funding. Those of us who were not Airborne qualified rode the trucks to where the other guys who would do an airdrop would land. That gave us a chance to break open some MREs and get some sleep. A few of my friends on Active Duty from IOBC who were Airborne qualified never jumped again after Airborne school. Air Assault with helicopters was more practical and safe.

I remember being asked about the use of drugs during MEPS, but not about being gay. We had the 'Don't ask don't tell' policy in effect. Ranger school now is open to all MOSs and women. When I went through it, you had to be Infantry, 11B, plus we had Desert Phase which added another week to the whole process. Desert Phase was phased out, but that was the 'commo' phase of Ranger school.



Yes I did. That is where I had a chance to meet some U.S. Navy SEALs. By then my MOS was 38A, Civil Affairs. So, overall, I spent about 8 years on Active Duty and 12 years in the National Guard and the Reserves. One deployment to Iraq. I have to say I enjoyed my time in the Army. Met and worked with some amazing soldiers, both enlisted and officers.

That answered my other question if you were tabbed or a regiment guy. If you made it through the Ranger course you'd easily make it through jump school, the only "difficult" part was forcing yourself to jump out of a perfectly good airplane, which I noticed as long as you weren't the first or last guy in the chalk it wasn't an issue, you were going out the plane whether you liked it or not. I agree that helicopter insertions have almost made parachuting a novelty, especially in large force operations. I never jumped after jump school, it's more common than people would think.

You must have gone in after me since "don't ask don't tell" wasn't in place at the at time. Hell I was in when they switched over from the jeeps and gamma goats to the Humvees. I remember them bringing out the Humvees and telling us "these things are practically impossible to get stuck, we dare you to try" Needless to say we had to have recovery at least four out of about 16. I managed to get mine stuck right under a nests of yellow jackets (not planned) when they brought in the 113 to pull us out the noise would piss off the yellow jackets, I ended up buying everyone dinner that night since we didn't get back to garrison until around 7:30 that night.

I was involved in demolition the old USSOCOM buildings, in fact we had a former VIetnam era SEAL as our DOD rep. All he wanted to do was tell "war stories" mostly about bar fights. One of the funniest parts of that job was instead of throwing out all the old office chairs and furniture I sold them to a used office furniture store, The big lounge chairs they used around the circle conference table were a bitch to get rid of, the head rests were so stained from peoples' heads resting against them and the oils and dirt from their hair. I finally talked one place into giving me $100 for all 24 chairs, but made a killing on the smaller leather chairs. Split the money with another guy and ended up paying for my world series tickets to see Marlins play the Indians.

 

[SMillard]

Isn't the US Navy the world's 2nd strongest air force? How many battleships does the Air Force have?

The Navy is why we can project force literally anywhere on the planet at any given time

the same number of battleships the navy has.

Sorry, couldn't resist being a smartass

 

[Phr3121]

The Navy is why we can project force literally anywhere on the planet at any given time.

U.S. Air Force bombers can fly missions anywhere in the world from the U.S. B-1 bombers did bombing runs to Iraq and Afghanistan in less than a 24 hour period from the U.S. Very nice. Pilots can have breakfast and dinner with the family and still kill Taliban in the same day.

 

[Phr3121]

I remember them bringing out the Humvees and telling us "these things are practically impossible to get stuck, we dare you to try". Needless to say we had to have recovery at least four out of about 16.

Well, when I went in in "88, we were still firing the M-16A1s. You could still fire 'full auto' with those rifles. This before the A2s came out with only the 3 round 'burst' option. I only went through Ranger school. I was not part of the Ranger Battalion. Back then the Rangers still wore the 'black' berets. Ranger school was longer with the 'Desert Phase'.

Two stories:
. When I went through IOBC, during mechanized and maintenance week, they made all the Lieutenants get license to drive the M113s. I think you mentioned the armored personnel carriers above. So, here we were learning about the Bradley vehicle but driving the M113s around Ft. Benning. Specially fun to drive in the mud, but than you had to clean them all up.

. Humvee - Years later when I was with a Civil Affairs unit getting ready to deploy to Iraq, we had an incident. Someone accidentally hit the windshield of one of the Humvees with a rock and it cracked. Well, that was big news throughout the Battalion. We found out those fucking Humvees had windshields that were not bullet proof. Had all the windshields replaced before the deployment. What the fuck were those factory guys thinking? That maybe these Humvees were going to be sold to the public to be driven on public roads?

I have a few more fucked up stories about the U.S. Army, but I heard the U.S. Marines had it even worst. Those boys were short on all sorts of basic equipment. They had to beg, borrow, and steal from the Army. It really makes you wonder about being the world's top military.

Also, I was in Camp Lejeune (USMC) in 1999 escorting some Brazilian Federal Police on riverine and counterdrug operations for about a week. The place is beautiful, a lot like Ft. Bragg. The Marines I met were great. Very friendly and very professional. The Brazilian police (5 individuals) could not wait to go into a gun store and buy about a dozen different weapons. They could not believe that here in America, we Americans are allowed to buy guns. They would have bought way more guns had they had more money.

 

[Cantona7]

Yeah, but (at least over here) the Air Force has absolutely spiffing moustaches...

 

[SMillard]

Well, when I went in in "88, we were still firing the M-16A1s. You could still fire 'full auto' with those rifles. This before the A2s came out with only the 3 round 'burst' option. I only went through Ranger school. I was not part of the Ranger Battalion. Back then the Rangers still wore the 'black' berets. Ranger school was longer with the 'Desert Phase'.

Two stories:
. When I went through IOBC, during mechanized and maintenance week, they made all the Lieutenants get license to drive the M113s. I think you mentioned the armored personnel carriers above. So, here we were learning about the Bradley vehicle but driving the M113s around Ft. Benning. Specially fun to drive in the mud, but than you had to clean them all up.

. Humvee - Years later when I was with a Civil Affairs unit getting ready to deploy to Iraq, we had an incident. Someone accidentally hit the windshield of one of the Humvees with a rock and it cracked. Well, that was big news throughout the Battalion. We found out those fucking Humvees had windshields that were not bullet proof. Had all the windshields replaced before the deployment. What the fuck were those factory guys thinking? That maybe these Humvees were going to be sold to the public to be driven on public roads?

I have a few more fucked up stories about the U.S. Army, but I heard the U.S. Marines had it even worst. Those boys were short on all sorts of basic equipment. They had to beg, borrow, and steal from the Army. It really makes you wonder about being the world's top military.

Also, I was in Camp Lejeune (USMC) in 1999 escorting some Brazilian Federal Police on riverine and counterdrug operations for about a week. The place is beautiful, a lot like Ft. Bragg. The Marines I met were great. Very friendly and very professional. The Brazilian police (5 individuals) could not wait to go into a gun store and buy about a dozen different weapons. They could not believe that here in America, we Americans are allowed to buy guns. They would have bought way more guns had they had more money.

I never saw an M16A2, all I ever shot were the A1s.

They made me get "licensed" in everything from the Humvee (they had just retired the jeeps and gamma goats, god I loved the gamma goats), 2 1/2 ton, 5 ton trucks, the M113, the large transport trucks I forgot their nomenclature, the 88 tracked recovery vehicle and the 8" artillery guns. Went through all the training which was a couple weeks, got my license then about three weeks later the motor pool Sgt was re-assigned the new guy came in, called us all up tore up our licenses and issued new ones only certifying us to drive the Humvees, deuce and a half and five ton. Basically told us all, you guys are never going to need to drive those other vehicles so I'm taking them away from you. Well a month after that they sent a bunch of us up to the port of Savannah to off load some cargo ships with vehicles onto rail cars to go to god knows where. More than half were tracked vehicles that now none of us were licensed to drive. So we took care of the wheeled vehicles we "could" drive. Then they had to bring in some guys from another unit to drive all the track vehicles while the rest of us just stood around. Probably one of the biggest CFs I've ever seen. Loading and tying down the vehicles on the rail cars was some hard work, ruined at least two uniforms and a pair of boots on that duty and that was for a month.

None of our Humvees were equipped to handle anything, fiberglass bodies, the wire framed soft poly doors and the glass wasn't bullet proof at all. Also when we received them the first thing we did was take the doors off and put them in storage. Only the medic Humvee had any kind of protection.

The Marines do have it worse, pretty much all their stuff is surplus army equipment. I met more than a few Marines that told me about receiving equipment with FTA written or carved into it. It was pretty widely known if you were turning stuff in that was going to the Marines everyone would put FTA on it.

 

[Phr3121]

I never saw an M16A2, all I ever shot were the A1s.

You must have shot the A2s at some point. The Army adopted the M-16A2s in the late "80s. That is what I shot at basic training at Ft. Benning to qualify. Remember the targets? The plastic Soviet soldier with the AK-47. My unit still had the A1s.

They made me get "licensed" in everything from the Humvee (they had just retired the jeeps and gamma goats, god I loved the gamma goats), 2 1/2 ton, 5 ton trucks, the M113, the large transport trucks I forgot their nomenclature, the 88 tracked recovery vehicle and the 8" artillery guns.

Which 8" guns? The M1 or the M110 self-propelled howitzer? Both were huge beasts. I'm in Oklahoma, home of the Artillery at Ft. Sill. There is a funny story about the first time they brought in the 'big' artillery pieces back in the 1940s. It drove the wildlife crazy. Once the rounds landed, the rabbits used to jump out of their holes. That must have been quite a funny site to see. I'm sure that by now the animals have gotten used to the noise.

Again, going back to IOBC at Ft. Benning in 1992, they had the Lieutenants huddled up in a bunker downrange from where some 81mm rounds were going to land. The M252 mortar. Fortified bunker with blast proof windows. So, we decide to go out and put our Platoon guidon close to where the rounds where going to land. Anyway, we were all in the bunker monitoring the radio traffic and call for fire procedures. (You guessed it. This was the 'call for indirect fire' week. Radio procedures also.) All of a sudden the rounds started to come in. The bunker was shaking and I would say we were all scared shitless. Man, that is some powerful and scary stuff. I can't imagine being caught in the open with 8" rounds coming in. Well, after it was all done we walked out and went to check on the guidon. The pole got broken in half and the flag took some shrapnel. Fun memories...

 

[SMillard]

You must have shot the A2s at some point. The Army adopted the M-16A2s in the late "80s. That is what I shot at basic training at Ft. Benning to qualify. Remember the targets? The plastic Soviet soldier with the AK-47. My unit still had the A1s.



Which 8" guns? The M1 or the M110 self-propelled howitzer? Both were huge beasts. I'm in Oklahoma, home of the Artillery at Ft. Sill. There is a funny story about the first time they brought in the 'big' artillery pieces back in the 1940s. It drove the wildlife crazy. Once the rounds landed, the rabbits used to jump out of their holes. That must have been quite a funny site to see. I'm sure that by now the animals have gotten used to the noise.

Again, going back to IOBC at Ft. Benning in 1992, they had the Lieutenants huddled up in a bunker downrange from where some 81mm rounds were going to land. The M252 mortar. Fortified bunker with blast proof windows. So, we decide to go out and put our Platoon guidon close to where the rounds where going to land. Anyway, we were all in the bunker monitoring the radio traffic and call for fire procedures. (You guessed it. This was the 'call for indirect fire' week. Radio procedures also.) All of a sudden the rounds started to come in. The bunker was shaking and I would say we were all scared shitless. Man, that is some powerful and scary stuff. I can't imagine being caught in the open with 8" rounds coming in. Well, after it was all done we walked out and went to check on the guidon. The pole got broken in half and the flag took some shrapnel. Fun memories...

actually I never shot an A2, qualified in basic with the A1 and we had the A1 at my unit which as I said was artillery. The infantry units were first priority to get the A2s, some of the guys in our unit still had the old 45 cal "grease guns". Our officers were still using colt 45s. When I first got to my first duty station they issued me an M 60 as my "personal weapon", we had the common tasks proficiency about a month or two after and I'm walking from station to station carrying a pig and at almost every station the testing NCO's first question was "who'd you piss off that you have to carry that?". A new 1st Sgt came in and saw that some of us had the M 60's as personal weapons, he said "that's stupid, issue them M 16s" so I was "whew, thank god I don't have to carry that around anymore" then he said "oh SMillard's squad doesn't have a M203, issue him that and assign him the M 60 as their crew served weapon". My smile turned into a WTF? So the rest of my time there I had a M 203, that grenade vest, an M 60, the tripod and the spare barrel bag. When we did road marches someone else would carry the tripod and another guy would carry the spare barrel bag but it was a bitch humping that 60 and 203.

It was the M110 at both artillery units I assigned to. Again, why they had us in the 18th airborne corps with those things is beyond me. Other than the time at Bragg when I was up with the forward observers I never saw anything other than one time a errant round landed in a buffer zone (we were on post detail picking up trash in the field, so it was a 109 round) It was a distance away from us but scared the shit out of us. Other than that I'd only seen the outgoing fire maybe a half dozen times, mostly when the gun bunnies would purposely mess with the phones or radios when they wanted some down time, usually they'd disconnect a wire or remove a battery, it was never anything clever that we didn't know they did it. Once they set up a battery right next to the LOC which is where I was usually at and They'd shoot and I was watching them while I was on OP duty. I was close to getting out and the 1st Sgt said "if you really like those guns, I can make sure you can see them up close if you re-enlist" I just looked at him, smiled and said "I'm good 1st Sgt", he was one of those guys that hated being called "top" despite having a kids top on his desk by his name plate.

I could imagine the reaction you guys had. I remember awhile back a guy showed me some video on youtube of US troops reacting during a mortar attack trying to crawl under their bunks saying "can you imagine being that cowardly, that's a disgrace" I said to him, "what the hell are they supposed to do? who are they going to shoot at? have you ever seen a chunk of mortar shrapnel? ever been anywhere near something like that going off? seen what one can do? you'd not only be crawling under your bunk you'd probably be swimming in your own piss and shit to get there"

 

[faustian]

U.S. Air Force bombers can fly missions anywhere in the world from the U.S. B-1 bombers did bombing runs to Iraq and Afghanistan in less than a 24 hour period from the U.S. Very nice. Pilots can have breakfast and dinner with the family and still kill Taliban in the same day.

I'm not about to step into this discussion as a civilian with any kind of predisposition so I'll defer to anyone who has served. That said, if the Air Force could operate in the terms we're discussing, then why strategically place Aircraft Carriers

 

[Phr3121]

That said, if the Air Force could operate in the terms we're discussing, then why strategically place Aircraft Carriers.

Propaganda. You can see the aircraft carrier in the water, you can't see a B-1 or B-2 flying overhead. You can't see the bombs or missiles until they are dropped or fired. Back in the 50s, the U.S. kept a fleet of nuclear armed B52s flying 24/7 in case of a nuclear war. There are about 32 cases of these bombs falling in the continental U.S. by accident and not detonating. Thank God. The majority of the bombs were recovered, but not all.

In 1958 the U.S. Air Force lost a 7,600 pound Mark 15 nuclear bomb in the waters off Tybee Island near Savannah, Georgia. It is still there today, buried in the mud. A 3.5 megaton thermonuclear (Hydrogen) bomb.

 

[Phr3121]

When I first got to my first duty station they issued me an M 60 as my "personal weapon".

The M60 machine gun was a great weapon. Firing the 7.62 round was really effective. We had them in basic training, my first Infantry unit and OCS. I had a soldier shot through the thigh when the blank adapter of one of the weapons came off by accident. He was lucky it was not his head or his torso. We had women in my OCS class and I remember watching one of them having to carry that thing during one of the patrols. That is one weapon the U.S. Army should have kept in the inventory.

I also remember watching one of the live M18 claymore mines go off in basic training. That was fucking loud and those pellets were very effective. You did not want to be in the back-blast area of one of those things when it went off. The North Vietnamese would find them and strap them to the top of trees to bring down U.S. helicopters during the Vietnam war.

Also scary was the M67 hand grenade. Loud. My concern was soldiers fucking with the safety pin or not throwing the grenade far enough. I don't think the girls can throw it as far as the guys. I remember being a 'green' 2nd Lieutenant and having to run a hand grenade range. I had done the M-16 range a few times, but never a hand grenade range. I remember the soldiers unloading the boxes of grenades off the Humvee, opening the boxes and seeing the green grenades with the 'yellow' markings of live grenades. Not the 'dummy' blue ones. My heart just sank. I was scared. Scared that someone might do something stupid with one of the grenades and get someone killed. Luckily everything ran smoothly. I had great NCOs as safety officers and I think the soldiers themselves were a little concerned about playing with live grenades. Never touched them again for 16 years. The guys I saw in theater with live grenades had the safety pin taped to the grenade.

Yeah, looking back, we were all very young, playing with some real deadly stuff. The power to kill placed in the hands of a young Infantry Platoon 2nd Lieutenant, or Platoon Sergeant, in the U.S. Army is amazing. Not to mention being able to call in airstrikes or indirect fire by artillery. It makes a 5.56 round seem like child's play.

 

[BassAckwards]

Propaganda. You can see the aircraft carrier in the water, you can't see a B-1 or B-2 flying overhead. You can't see the bombs or missiles until they are dropped or fired.

sorry buddy. the carrier would see you way before you could ever see the carrier. in fact, the carrier group (the fleet that deploys with the carrier) will see you before the carrier see's you.

if you need a huge payload and absolute destruction, then you use those bombers. if you need a precision strike, then you would use a carrier's aircraft

 

[the ambush]

The Navy is not limited to surface warships.

Spoiler

 

[Phr3121]

sorry buddy. the carrier would see you way before you could ever see the carrier. in fact, the carrier group (the fleet that deploys with the carrier) will see you before the carrier see's you.

Not really sure what you are talking about. @faustian was talking about a 'visual' military presence. Exactly. You can see ships but not planes. That is the whole point of having a U.S. Navy task force present near a certain area.

if you need a huge payload and absolute destruction, then you use those bombers. if you need a precision strike, then you would use a carrier's aircraft

You are saying the U.S. Air Force can't make precision strikes? You are not military are you? Have you ever heard of precision guided bombs, PGMs? These are 'smart' bombs, as opposed to 'dumb' bombs. It is all laser guided stuff. Precision strikes can be made by any branch of the U.S. military. We are in the 21st century now.

 

[TommyGunz]

Navy brah, they have marines, and SEALS.

 

[TommyGunz]

And I forgot hella fighter jets off aircraft carriers

 

[TommyGunz]

The Air Force has para rescue units and drones

 

[Phr3121]

Navy brah, they have marines. The Air Force has para rescue units and drones.

Again, U.S. Marines are a separate branch of the U.S. military. No one fights over water or air. They fight over land. That is why you need the U.S. Army. The Navy and Air Force support the Army and the Marines on the ground, not the other way around.

* Folks in California and Nevada may start fighting over water soon...