Who knows the story behind Gordon Ryan?

BJJ Rage and JusttheTip- Whenever I try to quote posts, it doesn't work, but I wanted to add a few things to both of your posts.

1. Ryan's popularity is absolutely not from his DVD's, unless you started jiu jitsu late (after he stopped competing) and weren't around when he was at Lloyds. He was heavily marketed and very much in the spotlight as one of the first few popular Americans, and most promising up and comers at the time. He was popular for his unorthodox guard, unprecedented amount of triangles, and for regularly submitting higher belts, which although commonplace now for serious competitors, did not happen very often a decade ago.

2. The Worlds division that Ryan won at purple was anything but shallow. Especially not for the time. Most of the guys in that division were heavy hitters on the competitive circuit, they just aren't active anymore or never blossomed into big names. Off the top of my head and without a way to double check, I remember that Alec Baulding, Vince Parra, Ronis Gracie, Chase Wheaton and Jake McKenzie were all in at lightweight that year. Years later when he placed third at brown, he was in there with Henrique Rezende, Zak Maxwell, Ed Ramos and more. Mike Easton was on the other side of the bracket, and I think that was his last major competition before entering the UFC.

3. Not disagreeing with your points about who people identify with and race being a contributing factor to popularity, only adding this: much of the popularity from the other names you mentioned were due to a concerted marketing effort by Lloyd, the novelty of the grappler being promoted, and how they fought as well. Fowler, Brandon Vera, Ryan, and all those guys were literally turned into animated cartoons in magazine ads to promote their careers, DVDs, online training programs, etc. Each had a unique angle being pushed such as Fowler's quick path to black belt (and how you can do it too!) or Ryan's inverted guard and ability to submit higher belts. Two, this was at a time when successful American grapplers were few and far between so guys like Glover and Fowler and Hall got more of a spotlight. There were plenty of better (at the time, or higher ranked at least) white Americans fighting at the elite level that received hardly any real attention, and I am willing to bet hardly any blue or purple belts on this board would recognize names like Todd Margolis or Garth Taylor. Finally, and the major contributing factor I think, is that their highlight reels look way different. Tonon gets attention because he is unorthodox, and win or lose, he is entertaining because he is hyper active and flying around the ring at all times. Hall was literally turning upside and spinning on his head, which created a spectacle basically. DJ is a tough sell because despite having a high finish rate, his grinding, top heavy style isn't particularly unique and doesn't stand out to those that don't specifically appreciate the technique. Unfortunately, result and skill isn't the major determining factor for what makes one popular. See Marvin Castelle, who isn't nearly as good as the viral attention from an iminari roll would have you believe.

From what I've seen online, Jamil is poised to become a huge name in the sport, not only because he's an emerging contender in a division that has had the podium firmly cemented for a great deal of time, but because of the game he plays and how hard he goes after it. I haven't seen a single person online mention him without singing his praises, and almost everyone is in universal agreement that he was slighted against Cobrinha. I'd venture to say (only based on what I've seen) that he is one of the up and comers generating the most interest right now and he managed to establish himself with jiu jitsu alone. No fake crowns, or obnoxious social media, or marketing push needed.
 
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People can’t say that the main reason wrestlers do well in mma is just because they’re “good athletes” and then ignore the actual reality either. It’s not good or bad. It doesn’t s mean the Diaz brothers aren’t good fighters, it means that the best athletes of any kind DO NOT LOOK AT OR ENTER MMA
You are lumping all athletic abilities into speed and strength, because that is what is coveted in American sports. The best athletes can be a combo of many athletic strengths, and speed/power/size do not have to rank #1 for a person to be an elite athlete.
 
From what I've seen online, Jamil is poised to become a huge name in the sport, not only because he's an emerging contender in a division that has had the podium firmly cemented for a great deal of time, but because of the game he plays and how hard he goes after it. I haven't seen a single person online mention him without singing his praises, and almost everyone is in universal agreement that he was slighted against Cobrinha. I'd venture to say (only based on what I've seen) that he is one of the up and comers generating the most interest right now and he managed to establish himself with jiu jitsu alone. No fake crowns, or obnoxious social media, or marketing push needed.

You obviously have intimate insight in regards to Ryan Hall BJJ run but to us regular joe's JusttheTip makes some valid points.It's just how it is. I have not heard of this Jamil guy you mentioned. I did find his instagram but I cannot find a HL reel of him for the life of me.
 
Train all the time. Get good. Have a great coach. Get good. Not complicated.
 
BwamSolid- I don't understand your post at all. Of course JusttheTip made valid points. I acknowledged that and said I was adding to them. It is what what is? What does that ever even mean? What is "it" in this case? I do have intimate knowledge in regard to Ryan's BJJ run because he is my friend/coach but that has nothing to do with my post. Anyone who was around who paid attention to competitive jiu jitsu at that time knows who people like Ralph Go and Chase Wheaton are and recognize the names in that division.
 
BJJ Rage and JusttheTip- Whenever I try to quote posts, it doesn't work, but I wanted to add a few things to both of your posts.

1. Ryan's popularity is absolutely not from his DVD's, unless you started jiu jitsu late (after he stopped competing) and weren't around when he was at Lloyds. He was heavily marketed and very much in the spotlight as one of the first few popular Americans, and most promising up and comers at the time. He was popular for his unorthodox guard, unprecedented amount of triangles, and for regularly submitting higher belts, which although commonplace now for serious competitors, did not happen very often a decade ago.

2. The Worlds division that Ryan won at purple was anything but shallow. Especially not for the time. Most of the guys in that division were heavy hitters on the competitive circuit, they just aren't active anymore or never blossomed into big names. Off the top of my head and without a way to double check, I remember that Alec Baulding, Vince Parra, Ronis Gracie, Chase Wheaton and Jake McKenzie were all in at lightweight that year. Years later when he placed third at brown, he was in there with Henrique Rezende, Zak Maxwell, Ed Ramos and more. Mike Easton was on the other side of the bracket, and I think that was his last major competition before entering the UFC.

3. Not disagreeing with your points about who people identify with and race being a contributing factor to popularity, only adding this: much of the popularity from the other names you mentioned were due to a concerted marketing effort by Lloyd, the novelty of the grappler being promoted, and how they fought as well. Fowler, Brandon Vera, Ryan, and all those guys were literally turned into animated cartoons in magazine ads to promote their careers, DVDs, online training programs, etc. Each had a unique angle being pushed such as Fowler's quick path to black belt (and how you can do it too!) or Ryan's inverted guard and ability to submit higher belts. Two, this was at a time when successful American grapplers were few and far between so guys like Glover and Fowler and Hall got more of a spotlight. There were plenty of better (at the time, or higher ranked at least) white Americans fighting at the elite level that received hardly any real attention, and I am willing to bet hardly any blue or purple belts on this board would recognize names like Todd Margolis or Garth Taylor. Finally, and the major contributing factor I think, is that their highlight reels look way different. Tonon gets attention because he is unorthodox, and win or lose, he is entertaining because he is hyper active and flying around the ring at all times. Hall was literally turning upside and spinning on his head, which created a spectacle basically. DJ is a tough sell because despite having a high finish rate, his grinding, top heavy style isn't particularly unique and doesn't stand out to those that don't specifically appreciate the technique. Unfortunately, result and skill isn't the major determining factor for what makes one popular. See Marvin Castelle, who isn't nearly as good as the viral attention from an iminari roll would have you believe.

From what I've seen online, Jamil is poised to become a huge name in the sport, not only because he's an emerging contender in a division that has had the podium firmly cemented for a great deal of time, but because of the game he plays and how hard he goes after it. I haven't seen a single person online mention him without singing his praises, and almost everyone is in universal agreement that he was slighted against Cobrinha. I'd venture to say (only based on what I've seen) that he is one of the up and comers generating the most interest right now and he managed to establish himself with jiu jitsu alone. No fake crowns, or obnoxious social media, or marketing push needed.

I started Bjj in 2009, I believe that was Ryan's last adcc? Ir was it 2011? Anyways I live in southamerica even downhere Ryan is quite popular among us, his popularity suprassed by far his results as a grappler, considering that he stopped competing a while ago. He's very well know and his DVDs have created some kind of cult about him, his conceptual approach contributed a lot to this I believe.

Going back to his triangle DVD which I think was the most popular, specially for white and blues was so popular that is not weird to see people calling rayangle when people refer to the triangle with an angle and underhooking and arm, eventhough it was probably done before.

If you compare both Dj and Ryan, who has left a bigger print in Bjj? I would say by far Ryan, eventhough he lacks the accomplishments Dj has, his DVDs are a must to have for every grappler that enjoys watching DVDs...
 
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Fowler, Brandon Vera, Ryan, and all those guys were literally turned into animated cartoons in magazine ads to promote their careers, DVDs, online training programs, etc.

I remember that - the "Dr. Ryangle" days! I think I had been training BJJ for about a year when I first saw that "Dr. Ryangle" ad in a magazine. I didn't know who he was and brought the magazine to the gym to show everyone this "dumb ad that was obviously a scam ...". Boy did I get a lesson that night! <45>
 
I started Bjj in 2009, I believe that was Ryan's last adcc? Ir was it 2011? Anyways I live in southamerica even downhere Ryan is quite popular among us, his popularity suprassed by far his results as a grappler, considering that he stopped competing a while ago. He's very well know and his DVDs have created some kind of cult about him, his conceptual approach contributed a lot to this I believe.

Going back to his triangle DVD which I think was the most popular, specially for white and blues was so popular that is not weird to see people calling rayangle when people refer to the triangle with an angle and underhooking and arm, eventhough it was probably done before.

If you compare both Dj and Ryan, who has left a bigger print in Bjj? I would say by far Ryan, eventhough he lacks the accomplishments Dj has, his DVDs are a must to have for every grappler that enjoys watching DVDs...
Ryan's last comp that I remember was the Ultimate Absolute in 2012. I think that Kenny was referencing Easton when he said it was his last major comp before the UFC. Ryan did ADCC 2009 and 2011.

And I definitely think that Ryan's DVDs have become a huge part of the community. Even if you weren't around during Ryan's competitive career, there's a good chance his instructionals have made a positive impact on your game.

He's contributed a lot to the jiu-jitsu community from those instructionals. I got each of them when they were released and even now I can go back and watch any of them and pick up something new.

They've stood the test of time.
 
You obviously have intimate insight in regards to Ryan Hall BJJ run but to us regular joe's JusttheTip makes some valid points.It's just how it is. I have not heard of this Jamil guy you mentioned. I did find his instagram but I cannot find a HL reel of him for the life of me.


Don't make Kenny mad unless you wanna get subbed bro.
 
I started Bjj in 2009, I believe that was Ryan's last adcc? Ir was it 2011? Anyways I live in southamerica even downhere Ryan is quite popular among us, his popularity suprassed by far his results as a grappler, considering that he stopped competing a while ago. He's very well know and his DVDs have created some kind of cult about him, his conceptual approach contributed a lot to this I believe.

Going back to his triangle DVD which I think was the most popular, specially for white and blues was so popular that is not weird to see people calling rayangle when people refer to the triangle with an angle and underhooking and arm, eventhough it was probably done before.

If you compare both Dj and Ryan, who has left a bigger print in Bjj? I would say by far Ryan, eventhough he lacks the accomplishments Dj has, his DVDs are a must to have for every grappler that enjoys watching DVDs...


DJ likes to sit in half guard attempting a knee slice pass while racking up penalties for stalling.
 
BJJ Rage and JusttheTip- Whenever I try to quote posts, it doesn't work, but I wanted to add a few things to both of your posts.

1. Ryan's popularity is absolutely not from his DVD's, unless you started jiu jitsu late (after he stopped competing) and weren't around when he was at Lloyds. He was heavily marketed and very much in the spotlight as one of the first few popular Americans, and most promising up and comers at the time. He was popular for his unorthodox guard, unprecedented amount of triangles, and for regularly submitting higher belts, which although commonplace now for serious competitors, did not happen very often a decade ago.

2. The Worlds division that Ryan won at purple was anything but shallow. Especially not for the time. Most of the guys in that division were heavy hitters on the competitive circuit, they just aren't active anymore or never blossomed into big names. Off the top of my head and without a way to double check, I remember that Alec Baulding, Vince Parra, Ronis Gracie, Chase Wheaton and Jake McKenzie were all in at lightweight that year. Years later when he placed third at brown, he was in there with Henrique Rezende, Zak Maxwell, Ed Ramos and more. Mike Easton was on the other side of the bracket, and I think that was his last major competition before entering the UFC.

3. Not disagreeing with your points about who people identify with and race being a contributing factor to popularity, only adding this: much of the popularity from the other names you mentioned were due to a concerted marketing effort by Lloyd, the novelty of the grappler being promoted, and how they fought as well. Fowler, Brandon Vera, Ryan, and all those guys were literally turned into animated cartoons in magazine ads to promote their careers, DVDs, online training programs, etc. Each had a unique angle being pushed such as Fowler's quick path to black belt (and how you can do it too!) or Ryan's inverted guard and ability to submit higher belts. Two, this was at a time when successful American grapplers were few and far between so guys like Glover and Fowler and Hall got more of a spotlight. There were plenty of better (at the time, or higher ranked at least) white Americans fighting at the elite level that received hardly any real attention, and I am willing to bet hardly any blue or purple belts on this board would recognize names like Todd Margolis or Garth Taylor. Finally, and the major contributing factor I think, is that their highlight reels look way different. Tonon gets attention because he is unorthodox, and win or lose, he is entertaining because he is hyper active and flying around the ring at all times. Hall was literally turning upside and spinning on his head, which created a spectacle basically. DJ is a tough sell because despite having a high finish rate, his grinding, top heavy style isn't particularly unique and doesn't stand out to those that don't specifically appreciate the technique. Unfortunately, result and skill isn't the major determining factor for what makes one popular. See Marvin Castelle, who isn't nearly as good as the viral attention from an iminari roll would have you believe.

From what I've seen online, Jamil is poised to become a huge name in the sport, not only because he's an emerging contender in a division that has had the podium firmly cemented for a great deal of time, but because of the game he plays and how hard he goes after it. I haven't seen a single person online mention him without singing his praises, and almost everyone is in universal agreement that he was slighted against Cobrinha. I'd venture to say (only based on what I've seen) that he is one of the up and comers generating the most interest right now and he managed to establish himself with jiu jitsu alone. No fake crowns, or obnoxious social media, or marketing push needed.

Henrique Rezende- Bad ass.......
 
One thing I found really odd in his interview after his ADDC win and he addresses the question about how he does not use steroids but then says his team is one of the rare team that doesn't use steroids but then adds something about not as much as other teams. I wonder if it's a Freudian Slip.
I thought that was odd to say. Maybe he was too excited after his performance.

His performance was very impressive nonetheless.
 
One thing I found really odd in his interview after his ADDC win and he addresses the question about how he does not use steroids but then says his team is one of the rare team that doesn't use steroids but then adds something about not as much as other teams. I wonder if it's a Freudian Slip.
I thought that was odd to say. Maybe he was too excited after his performance.

His performance was very impressive nonetheless.

Not that there aren't meaningful degrees of distinction in drug use. There's a difference in the amount and quality of PED's that a recreational cyclist or crossfitter might use vs what the Bulgarians or Westside are doing (or the cycle that was attributed to Duffin when he was going for that 1000lb for reps deadlift). The difference between "slightly above tainted supplements" to "JESUS FUCK THIS IS SOME CAPTAIN AMERICA SHIT"
 
I think that people underrate the issue in South America and overrate the issue in the US so that the real underlying issues aren’t addressed like poverty. But we’re on the same page

Oh man we'd need a whole nother forum to go over the difference in racial dynamics between Brazil and the US, much less the rest of Latin America
 
Oh man we'd need a whole nother forum to go over the difference in racial dynamics between Brazil and the US, much less the rest of Latin America
I wasn’t trying to start anything. My only strong opinion I’ll put out is people like to ignore poverty and how to address it
 
If it was just one guy maybe, but Danny boy seems to be turning out a lot of competitive guys, and every year or so it seems like there's another new name coming up. First it was Tonon, then it was Cummings, Then it was Gordon, then Taza, then Nicky, and now we've got this Crelinsten kid in the mix too.

Taza and Crelinsten only recently moved to Danaher's.

Tonon and Gordan originally came from Tom DeBlass. Gary was also highly experienced under Tom when he started with Danaher. I don't know why John gets all the credit for Gary and we hear virtually nothing about Tom
 
Taza and Crelinsten only recently moved to Danaher's.

Tonon and Gordan originally came from Tom DeBlass. Gary was also highly experienced under Tom when he started with Danaher. I don't know why John gets all the credit for Gary and we hear virtually nothing about Tom


I give Deblass credit, but the real point is, that is not something unique to Danaher; pretty much every top tier big name gym attracts walk-on talent from places around the country, thats just the way things go at that level; someone good enough will naturally have already been making waves anyways. How frequently though do those talents get to the next level at a big name gym? That's the pertinent question.
 
I give Deblass credit, but the real point is, that is not something unique to Danaher; pretty much every top tier big name gym attracts walk-on talent from places around the country, thats just the way things go at that level; someone good enough will naturally have already been making waves anyways. How frequently though do those talents get to the next level at a big name gym? That's the pertinent question.

i get your point, and it happens commonly especially in MMA. I just can't help but find it disturbing when the credit is often given to the wrong source

For example, a friend of mine is a high level pro MMA fighter, who primarily uses BJJ and wrestling to win fights. He wrestled D-2 in college and competed IBJJF tournament regularly since white belt through brown. He joined up with a good MMA gym that is primarily strikers, without much focus on grappling save for defensive tactics. When he fights, he hardly throws strikes and rarely will let the standing engagement last long, very Demian Maia-like. He started doing very well and almost all if the attention is given to the MMA gym he comes from and the MMA coach there gladly takes all the credit for the fighter, even though he is primarily a striking coach with MMA fights and little grappling experience. Cant help but be bothered by this as may friend basically wins fight with skills he basically knew before ever training with the head MMA coach.
 
i get your point, and it happens commonly especially in MMA. I just can't help but find it disturbing when the credit is often given to the wrong source

For example, a friend of mine is a high level pro MMA fighter, who primarily uses BJJ and wrestling to win fights. He wrestled D-2 in college and competed IBJJF tournament regularly since white belt through brown. He joined up with a good MMA gym that is primarily strikers, without much focus on grappling save for defensive tactics. When he fights, he hardly throws strikes and rarely will let the standing engagement last long, very Demian Maia-like. He started doing very well and almost all if the attention is given to the MMA gym he comes from and the MMA coach there gladly takes all the credit for the fighter, even though he is primarily a striking coach with MMA fights and little grappling experience. Cant help but be bothered by this as may friend basically wins fight with skills he basically knew before ever training with the head MMA coach.
It happens. I have a whitebelt who is doing very well locally and when people come in they compliment me on how well I've brought him up. Without the background that he wrestled in highschool, wrestled a club team at tech, and now is a high school wrestling coach and does a ton of S&C work outside the mat on top of training 5 days a week. All I did was get handed the keys to a corvette (he's not a ferarri persay) and not put the damn thing into a wall. But I mean am I not supposed to take credit?
 
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