Who was better, Sugar Ray Leonard or Roy Jones Jr?

Seano said:
No, its a good win. But people fail to rate a win like that today. Floyd is the closest thing we have to a new ATG, so I use him as an example. People don't give Floyd extra credit for what Canelo did after he beat him.

Or look at the Toney/Hearns example if you like. Toney had a lot more good wins on his resume than Hearns when he lost to Ray. Why isn't that considered a great win? Because Toney turned into a fat turd that people didn't like and Hearns was involved in fun fights. thats why.


I mean, its not like its some new thing I just noticed or anything. Fans tend to set conditions on greatness depending on how much they like someone.
Click to expand...

Toney was great don't get me wrong. I love both RJJ and Ray, Toney and Bhop, imo, were great fighters but also if you look back, Toney was a defensive fighter with not a whole lot of power, and Bhop was an uglier, but similar style.

Those would never be tough match ups for a guy like Roy, he was too talented. Not taking away from the quality of wins, but maybe a guy like Rocky or Joe Louis or Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Monzon, Duran, Hagler, guys that were atg's in their primes, could solve the puzzle that is Roy Jones. SRL is another guy I wouldn't count out.

That being said, I am saying I would slightly favor RJJ over Ray here.

I don't think there's many ppl who pick anyone over a prime RJJ, as I said RJJ is the perfect "fantasy match up" fighter b/c of that nostalgia of his prime, similar but possibly even more awe insipiring than a young Tyson.

So here's a better question. Who would you guys favor over a prime RJJ. Any of the guys I mentioned, anyone p4p? It's a tough guy to beat, esp in a fantasy match up world.
 
CastletonSnob said:
Hearns only lost by decision once. He outboxed just about everyone. He was even well ahead on the scorecards against Leonard.
Click to expand...

I was talking about his wins. He won a lot of fights by decision.
The only savvy boxer he knocked out was Duran. For whatever reason Duran was standing upright in front of Hearns like the Empire State Building.

Usually Duran should've been able to comfortably go the distance with Hearns.

anyway, Toney and Hopkins are just as good as any win by Leonard.

There were a few good european boxers at that time that Roy didn't get to box like Eubank, Collins, Calzaghe, Michalczewski.

People lean towards Leonard mainly due to two things - 1) Nostalgia, and 2) Ray's charisma.
I can't recall one boxer, aside from Ali, that was as charismatic in the ring as Ray.
 
proncley said:
.

How does Leonard destroy Roy? Just because he has one or two better wins?

Roy won world titles at 4 weight classes. Two boxers couldn't be closer in terms of accomplishments.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think RJJ is one of the best fighters ever, but his resume doesn't boast as many great names, precisely half what Ray and his team managed to scalp during Ray's time. If you question wins like Hearns, Benitez, Duran, and Hagler for "conditions" or "the real story at the time", then question Toney win for Toney being weightdrained, Hopkins win for Hopkins being green (Hopkins beat the fuck out of RJJ in the rematch too, don't tell me about conditions in that fight either, it got signed and Hopkins humiliated him, end of story), or McCallum win for McCallum being 500 yrs old.

The eye test does mean something, but records are records, and Ray's has more quality wins.
 
proncley said:
I was talking about his wins. He won a lot of fights by decision.
The only savvy boxer he knocked out was Duran. For whatever reason Duran was standing upright in front of Hearns like the Empire State Building.

Usually Duran should've been able to comfortably go the distance with Hearns.

anyway, Toney and Hopkins are just as good as any win by Leonard.

There were a few good european boxers at that time that Roy didn't get to box like Eubank, Collins, Calzaghe, Michalczewski.

People lean towards Leonard mainly due to two things - 1) Nostalgia, and 2) Ray's charisma.
I can't recall one boxer, aside from Ali, that was as charismatic in the ring as Ray.
Click to expand...
Toney and Hopkins at the time they took place are not better wins than hagler at the time srl fought him. I know it’s obly opinion but I doubt you’ll get many people seeing it the same way you do.

It’s also interesting you were talking about context and then have said he couldn’t fight calzaghe. Contextually Roy was toast when they finally met so I appreciate the irrelevance but calzaghe having constantly broken hands didn’t help him be an enticing opponent because he was always on the shelf.
 
BluntTrauma21 said:
So here's a better question. Who would you guys favor over a prime RJJ. Any of the guys I mentioned, anyone p4p? It's a tough guy to beat, esp in a fantasy match up world.
Click to expand...

Andrè Ward
 
Roy was attacking from all angles, Ward would be plastered.
 
Boxiana said:
The fact that you disagree with me is good for my position.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should establish your position with actual arguments instead of a school yard mentality.

At least I have an opinion. About 20-30% of posters here are pathetic dumbsticks who just go with the flow whatever the topic may be. Ask for the GOAT and they'll say SRR without being informed about Robinson at all.

I'll give you another shot: Roy was too elusive. Ward could never get inside because he would never find Roy. He was a different area code than Carl Froch, Chad Dawson and Mikkel Kessler.
 
proncley said:
Maybe you should establish your position with actual arguments instead of a school yard mentality.

At least I have an opinion. About 20-30% of posters here are pathetic dumbsticks who just go with the flow whatever the topic may be. Ask for the GOAT and they'll say SRR without being informed about Robinson at all.

I'll give you another shot: Roy was too elusive. Ward could never get inside because he would never find Roy. He was a different area code than Carl Froch, Chad Dawson and Mikkel Kessler.
Click to expand...
Roy didn’t fight that much at 168 and his best win was his first. The resume that froch and Kessler fought at that level isn’t scrubs and Chad was a lhw by the time he cut to fight ward.

For the record if you look at pure talent at the time he fought at 168 there are none better yet than Roy. If you’re looking at resume, both wins and losses froch beating Taylor Dirrell Kessler Johnson and being shut out by ward shows the level ward fights at. Ward isn’t getting plastered by anybody at 168. Lose more times than not? Sure. But he was cannon fodder.

If anyone can remember back to his smw run, without using boxrec name his fights at that weight and outcomes?
 
proncley said:
Maybe you should establish your position with actual arguments instead of a school yard mentality.

At least I have an opinion. About 20-30% of posters here are pathetic dumbsticks who just go with the flow whatever the topic may be. Ask for the GOAT and they'll say SRR without being informed about Robinson at all.

I'll give you another shot: Roy was too elusive. Ward could never get inside because he would never find Roy. He was a different area code than Carl Froch, Chad Dawson and Mikkel Kessler.
Click to expand...

Ward found a way to beat every man he faced. Jones was quicksilver but you think Ward would have chased after him and left himself open? Nope. He would have done what it took to get him where he wanted the action and then ground him out. Just like he always did.

Would have been a hell of a fight no doubt.

Happy Christmas.
 
People are always like, "who could have beaten RJJ" and honestly Mike McCallum in his prime could have done it. Even his dinosaur self was more than game in his fight with RJJ, plus Roy had a shit chin and he wasn't getting the Body Snatcher outta there no matter how good he was if he couldn't when McCallum was ancient.

50/50 fight if they were in primes. McCallum is for technical ability what Roy was with physical ability.
 
Sunfish said:
Roy didn’t fight that much at 168 and his best win was his first. The resume that froch and Kessler fought at that level isn’t scrubs and Chad was a lhw by the time he cut to fight ward.
Click to expand...

They're still not the same area code as RJJ.

I don't think Manny Pacquiao is the same area code as RJJ, and Pacquiao has a much better resume than Carl Froch and Mikkel Kessler combined.
 
proncley said:
They're still not the same area code as RJJ.

I don't think Manny Pacquiao is the same area code as RJJ, and Pacquiao has a much better resume than Carl Froch and Mikkel Kessler combined.
Click to expand...
You’re talking smw. Toney, vinny Paz, merqui sosa, Antoine Byrd, tony Thornton, Eric Lucas and Bryant brannon.

The end of frochs career looking purely at resume stands up ok apart from he obviously didn’t get a james Toney type win on there.

If you move the goalposts to them at any weight at any time I don’t see pacquiao losing a three fight stretch to tarver and Johnson or getting knocked out by someone of the ability of enzo macarenelli.
 
Sunfish said:
You’re talking smw. Toney, vinny Paz, merqui sosa, Antoine Byrd, tony Thornton, Eric Lucas and Bryant brannon.

The end of frochs career looking purely at resume stands up ok apart from he obviously didn’t get a james Toney type win on there.

If you move the goalposts to them at any weight at any time I don’t see pacquiao losing a three fight stretch to tarver and Johnson or getting knocked out by someone of the ability of enzo macarenelli.
Click to expand...

I don't even know what you're talking about. I merely said that Roy's a different area code ability wise.
 
proncley said:
I don't even know what you're talking about. I merely said that Roy's a different area code ability wise.
Click to expand...
Then you’re being deliberately ignorant.

The discussion moved on to who could beat him and specifically you started talking about Andre wards resume. Seeing as he was an smw you are presumably comparing them as such.

Roy unfortunately faced his cards when he lost his speed advantage over similarly sized fighters. He was the best smw ever but if you’re saying he’s in a different area code, Toney aside he didn’t take on murderers row at 168.

You can cherry pick roys career to make points either way. Outstanding talent in his prime, no he isn’t in a different area code to pacquiao and no he isn’t in a different area code to ward at 168.

But you seem to think you’re king of intelligent debate whilst simultaneously not really doing anything to back up your opinions except stating them repeatedly.
 
Still not sure what you want from me.

Maybe go outside and catch some fresh air, because you make less sense than the wall Donald Trump is trying to build along the US-Mexico border.
 
proncley said:
Still not sure what you want from me.

Maybe go outside and catch some fresh air, because you make less sense than the wall Donald Trump is trying to build along the US-Mexico border.
Click to expand...
I don’t want anything from you. Throwing insults around and saying things like Roy Jones jr is in a different area code to Manny Pacquiao, not acknowledging Roy’s resume at the weight class being discussed at that point isn’t murderers row, and saying he’s the best of all time and laughing at people for not researching their opinions is good enough for other people to draw their own conclusions from.

FWIW Donald trump is very clear what he wants from the wall. It’s just a batshit crazy idea.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,236,723
Messages
55,437,474
Members
174,774
Latest member
Ruckus245

Share this page

Back
Top