Who's the 3rd GOAT behind Jordan and LeBron?

kflo said:
what possible area does he fall short??

comparing him to mj is frankly alot closer than bird. lebron has been the clear best player in the league for FAR longer than bird ever was, and he's had more overall success. he's had better durability, numbers, defense, awards.
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This is a great point. LeBron has objectively been the best basketball player on the planet since 2009 (there was a reasonable case to be made for Curry's reg season fire streak in 2016 but then the Finals happened and LeBron eliminated any doubt). So that's literally a decade of sustained dominance as the world's consensus best player. Literally no one else has done that. Not in the NBA and I wonder if it's been done in any sport. Jordan might've been able to come close had he not temp-retired for 1.5 years during his prime, but even then I don't know that I would say Hakeem wasn't the best player in the universe from 94 to 95 regardless of whether MJ was playing
 
kflo said:
they were a team that won 33 games and lost deng.

they were in no way similarly dominant. that's crazy.
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The pieces were all being together for his. To deny that is a bit disingenuous IMO. Lebron knew he was coming back to, at the very least, Irving + #1 pick. We'll chalk the fact they just happened to be able to trade up for arguably the best big in league, to coincidence.
 
gspieler said:
Bird and Magic were both mediocre athletes by NBA standards. What set them apart were skill, iq, toughness, and supreme court awareness.
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LeBron in his 13th season, past his peak physical prime and with more mileage than anyone in the league today, is putting up an absurd 34/9/9 on 63% TS as a one-man wrecking crew in these yoffs. All those qualities you mentioned are absolutely applicable to LeBron
 
faustian said:
This is a great point. LeBron has objectively been the best basketball player on the planet since 2009 (there was a reasonable case to be made for Curry's reg season fire streak in 2016 but then the Finals happened and LeBron eliminated any doubt). So that's literally a decade of sustained dominance as the world's consensus best player. Literally no one else has done that. Not in the NBA and I wonder if it's been done in any sport. Jordan might've been able to come close had he not temp-retired for 1.5 years during his prime, but even then I don't know that I would say Hakeem wasn't the best player in the universe from 94 to 95 regardless of whether MJ was playing
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Wilt did it in the 60's. The 70's is kind of a gray area, but I suppose KAJ may have done it. The 80's were simply too competitive to have a guy like that; Bird and Magic were the perfect foils to one another, plus Hakeem, MJ, etc. MJ was probably the best player on the planet from late 80's to late 90's. Shaq was the best from late 90's to early 00's. After that, Timmeh, Kobe, and Lebron all shared similar space until the end of the decade. Since that time, Lebron probably has been the best.
 
faustian said:
LeBron in his 13th season, past his peak physical prime and with more mileage than anyone in the league today, is putting up an absurd 34/9/9 on 63% TS as a one-man wrecking crew in these yoffs. All those qualities you mentioned are absolutely applicable to LeBron
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And I never even implied that he lacked them. Anyone who would question Lebron's skill, basketball iq, and court awareness, probably don't understand what they're watching. His toughness is questionable, though. Not by average-player standards, but by ATG standards.
 
gspieler said:
The pieces were all being together for his. To deny that is a bit disingenuous IMO. Lebron knew he was coming back to, at the very least, Irving + #1 pick. We'll chalk the fact they just happened to be able to trade up for arguably the best big in league, to coincidence.
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he went to a 33 win team. the only reason it looked stacked after the fact was because lebron was there. add him to any team and they become a contender. they're in the conference finals without irving.
 
gspieler said:
And I never even implied that he lacked them. Anyone who would question Lebron's skill, basketball iq, and court awareness, probably don't understand what they're watching. His toughness is questionable, though. Not by average-player standards, but by ATG standards.
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again, you're just making shit up. his toughness compared to who? on what basis? how are you measuring his toughness?
 
kflo said:
he went to a 33 win team. the only reason it looked stacked after the fact was because lebron was there. add him to any team and they become a contender. they're in the conference finals without irving.
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Context matters. Lebron knew he was going to have help. It's irrelevant if they won 33 the prior season, if Lebron knew he was joining a peaking All-Star, and getting a #1 pick to use as a bargaining chip on the trade table.
 
gspieler said:
Context matters. Lebron knew he was going to have help. It's irrelevant if they won 33 the prior season, if Lebron knew he was joining a peaking All-Star, and getting a #1 pick to use as a bargaining chip on the trade table.
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it's irrelevant that he was joining a shitty team with a #1 pick that wasn't expected be a great #1? again he could have gone almost anywhere and had help. because he's lebron. as he's showing now.
 
kflo said:
again, you're just making shit up. his toughness compared to who? on what basis? how are you measuring his toughness?
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A 6'8", 250lb dude, who has a record of flopping, of complaining anytime he doesn't get the friendly whistle, calling out teammates/coaches when one of his team's is slumping, etc. The memes have been posted countless times, even on an mma board such as this.

I'm speaking relative to others in the GOAT convo ftr. A big guy who's a good role player like Divac flopping to get a whistle is different than an alpha like Lebron. MJ, Bird, Kobe, etc mastered psychological warfare against their opponents. The same can't be said for Lebrin IMO.
 
kflo said:
it's irrelevant that he was joining a shitty team with a #1 pick that wasn't expected be a great #1? again he could have gone almost anywhere and had help. because he's lebron. as he's showing now.
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Yeah, I'm just going to say I disagree with your claim, and leave it at that. In no reality did Lebron think he was going back to a team that was on par with his Cleavland teams during the first run.
 
gspieler said:
A 6'8", 250lb dude, who has a record of flopping, of complaining anytime he doesn't get the friendly whistle, calling out teammates/coaches when one of his team's is slumping, etc. The memes have been posted countless times, even on an mma board such as this.

I'm speaking relative to others in the GOAT convo ftr. A big guy like Divac flopping to get a whistle is different than an alpha like Lebron. MJ, Bird, Kobe, etc mastered psychological warfare against their opponents. The same can't be said for Lebrin IMO.
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again, these meme's are from haters who have nothing else to do. meme's didn't exist when kobe was mailing it in, or magic was choking away a finals or getting a coach fired, or jordan was complaining to refs on every call (or getting a coach fired). fuck, jordan fuckin RETIRED in the middle of his prime. the idea that lebron isn't in opponents heads is laughable. lol at record of flopping. or that he's not alpha. you haters are hysterical. watch the fucking games. see who is the alpha every game.
 
gspieler said:
Yeah, I'm just going to say I disagree with your claim, and leave it at that. In no reality did Lebron think he was going back to a team that was on par with his Cleavland teams during the first run.
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he joined a team that would have been shitty without him.
 
gspieler said:
Bird and Magic were both mediocre athletes by NBA standards. What set them apart were skill, iq, toughness, and supreme court awareness.
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don't forget talent and coordination. people try to perpetuate this idea that they weren't unique talents. they were. bird was much quicker than he's given credit for too.
 
kflo said:
don't forget talent and coordination. people try to perpetuate this idea that they weren't unique talents. they were. bird was much quicker than he's given credit for too.
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Yeah, that's kind of a given. Guys like Bird and Magic have innate abilities that cannot be taught. It's akin to having extra senses(which when you watch their HL reels, seems like the only plausible explanation). I think they both had very sharp minds, and quick reflexes, but weren't terribly fast/explosive in terms of athleticism as its traditionally defined.
 
gspieler said:
Yeah, that's kind of a given. Guys like Bird and Magic have innate abilities that cannot be taught. It's akin to having extra senses(which when you watch their HL reels, seems like the only plausible explanation). I think they both had very sharp minds, and quick reflexes, but weren't terribly fast/explosive in terms of athleticism as its traditionally defined.
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the thing is, lebron always had that innate ability too. moreso than the jordan's and kobe's.
 
kflo said:
the thing is, lebron always had that innate ability too. moreso than the jordan's and kobe's.
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Apples and oranges. Lebron is basically the neo-Magic Johnson, i.e. the prototype of a modern point forward. Jordan and Kobe were shooting guards, and more fit the mold of being pure scorers.
 
gspieler said:
Apples and oranges. Lebron is basically the neo-Magic Johnson, i.e. the prototype of a modern point forward. Jordan and Kobe were shooting guards, and more fit the mold of being pure scorers.
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except lebron is a pure scorer. he just is also a pure passer too. he's a modern point forward because of his body, not his skillset. if lebron set out to score 30 every year (like he often does in the playoffs) he would.
 
gspieler said:
Yeah, that's kind of a given. Guys like Bird and Magic have innate abilities that cannot be taught. It's akin to having extra senses(which when you watch their HL reels, seems like the only plausible explanation). I think they both had very sharp minds, and quick reflexes, but weren't terribly fast/explosive in terms of athleticism as its traditionally defined.
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Magic ripped up a 40-20 game at center. Bird had hops before he jacked up his back. Most here only saw ancient Kareem who was effective but old as hell. He was athletic as fuck in his prime.
 
faustian said:
This is a great point. LeBron has objectively been the best basketball player on the planet since 2009 (there was a reasonable case to be made for Curry's reg season fire streak in 2016 but then the Finals happened and LeBron eliminated any doubt). So that's literally a decade of sustained dominance as the world's consensus best player. Literally no one else has done that. Not in the NBA and I wonder if it's been done in any sport. Jordan might've been able to come close had he not temp-retired for 1.5 years during his prime, but even then I don't know that I would say Hakeem wasn't the best player in the universe from 94 to 95 regardless of whether MJ was playing
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Try like 2005
 
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