Why are we so soft on employers who hire illegals?

It's the war room. He's just as likely 100 srs. Have you not seen the evolution threads? Anything is possible on this sub forum.

I like to think the best of people.

Well i try to assume they aren't as stupid as what they say.
 
This is the biggest issue regarding illegal immigration imo. The entire incentive for people to come and work here illegally is made by people, corporations, businesses, etc willing to pay them for work. Business is so tightly regulated here that stiff enough penalties would essentially eliminate illegal immigration(despite GOP talking points, social welfare isn't nearly lenient enough to support illegals alone).

Fine people and businesses $100,000 per illegal per day of work who knowingly hire illegals. Multiply the fines by 10 and add a mandatory minimum prison sentence of 10 years per illegal for each company executive when the business helps falsify federal and state documents(many do this so a lot of these people in fact do pay taxes but under fake or stolen identities).
 
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I know... right?

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With subway the franchisor could dictate that franchisees who don't make reasonable attempts to verify the legitimacy of their employees could have their franchise revoked.

There will always be blackmarkets but what you can control is when legit business engages in black market activities.

Sure, but you're still only getting 2-3 illegals per franchise after the investigation. I think your last sentence kind of misses half of what I said. You can control when legit businesses engage in black market activities. However, when you're talking about hiring illegal labor, the advantage is on the side of the businesses...so are the incentives.

To take it to the extreme - you could completely eliminate the problem by getting rid of the minimum wage. Or by giving a tax credit per legal employee that reduces their cost below that of illegal labor. Those are economic incentives. But trying to catch every business that is hiring a handful of illegal immigrants, often in ethnic communities that have little incentive to turn in their own. In industries where the risk of being caught is very low. Well, it's important to do but the mechanics of doing it are in the businesses favor.
 
Except that you can't make it impossible for illegals to work here so long as you have an economy where people will directly trade services for compensation. Because someone who wants to make money is going to go out and try and make money, they're not going to wait for an interview call back. They'll sell shit from their apartment, they'll buy a used vehicle and go door to door in poor neighborhoods.

You haven't had much personal experience with illegals if you think the vast majority of them don't work as paid employees.
 
You haven't had much personal experience with illegals if you think the vast majority of them don't work as paid employees.

I have more than enough (I represent a lot of Hispanic small businesses, lol). What I'm saying is that you can't stop people from finding a way to make a living. Most of my other posts reference paid employee positions at small businesses.
 
Except that you can't make it impossible for illegals to work here so long as you have an economy where people will directly trade services for compensation. Because someone who wants to make money is going to go out and try and make money, they're not going to wait for an interview call back. They'll sell shit from their apartment, they'll buy a used vehicle and go door to door in poor neighborhoods.

The goal is to make money, not to land a job. That doesn't mean you ignore the businesses that hire illegals but we shouldn't be so narrow in our thoughts as to only think about job holding illegals.

And I've never mentioned a wall in this thread.

Yes you can, you make e-Verify mandatory, you make whistleblowers who report illegals get a percentage of the fine, and you give a private cause of action, a la civil rights legislation, to Americans who were turned down for a job by a business who hired illegals.

The percentage of street vendors is going to be negligible after that, and good policing could take care of most of them anyway.

After that, we could move on to restricting citizenship further.
 
I have more than enough (I represent a lot of Hispanic small businesses, lol). What I'm saying is that you can't stop people from finding a way to make a living. Most of my other posts reference paid employee positions at small businesses.
 
Yes you can, you make e-Verify mandatory, you make whistleblowers who report illegals get a percentage of the fine, and you give a private cause of action, a la civil rights legislation, to Americans who were turned down for a job by a business who hired illegals.

The percentage of street vendors is going to be negligible after that, and good policing could take care of most of them anyway.

After that, we could move on to restricting citizenship further.

None of the above has anything to do with independent individuals selling services directly to consumers. It's fine for businesses even though most of it already exists, including the civil action component, as doesn't seem to having the effect hoped for.
 
Because the employer might not know they're illegal. But for sure 100% the employee know that they're illegal. Most employers just call references and that's about it. Sometimes they don't even do anything. Just interview and take their words for it.
 
None of the above has anything to do with independent individuals selling services directly to consumers. It's fine for businesses even though most of it already exists, including the civil action component, as doesn't seem to having the effect hoped for.

Sure you can, just put finders bounties on them, you weaponize capitalism against capitalism.
 
Sure you can, just put finders bounties on them, you weaponize capitalism against capitalism.

Paid out of the public coffers. It no longer appears to be low hanging fruit as you start creating new spending and regulatory bodies to enforce this angle. Which is what I said a while back.
 
Sure, but you're still only getting 2-3 illegals per franchise after the investigation. I think your last sentence kind of misses half of what I said. You can control when legit businesses engage in black market activities. However, when you're talking about hiring illegal labor, the advantage is on the side of the businesses...so are the incentives.

To take it to the extreme - you could completely eliminate the problem by getting rid of the minimum wage. Or by giving a tax credit per legal employee that reduces their cost below that of illegal labor. Those are economic incentives. But trying to catch every business that is hiring a handful of illegal immigrants, often in ethnic communities that have little incentive to turn in their own. In industries where the risk of being caught is very low. Well, it's important to do but the mechanics of doing it are in the businesses favor.

I agree most cases would be small business but i think about cases like that bakery where they had 800 illegal workers out of 2500 employees.

Yes they got caught but i can't believe that it was impossible to catch that before it got so severe.

Also while the risk is low if it carries severe penalties it is not worth the risk.

Anyway before we go further what structure do you think is used to pay illegal employees in legit businesses (I am not interested in person to person employment like a nanny or gardener as that will require separate systems to eradicate).
Are they in books charged tax or completely off books paid with untaxed dollars?
 
Because the employer might not know they're illegal. But for sure 100% the employee know that they're illegal. Most employers just call references and that's about it. Sometimes they don't even do anything. Just interview and take their words for it.

Dereliction of duty is not and should not be a valid excuse.

I believe that the e-verify system allows employers to find the truth for free.
 
Sure, but you're still only getting 2-3 illegals per franchise after the investigation. I think your last sentence kind of misses half of what I said. You can control when legit businesses engage in black market activities. However, when you're talking about hiring illegal labor, the advantage is on the side of the businesses...so are the incentives.

To take it to the extreme - you could completely eliminate the problem by getting rid of the minimum wage. Or by giving a tax credit per legal employee that reduces their cost below that of illegal labor. Those are economic incentives. But trying to catch every business that is hiring a handful of illegal immigrants, often in ethnic communities that have little incentive to turn in their own. In industries where the risk of being caught is very low. Well, it's important to do but the mechanics of doing it are in the businesses favor.

Further i should it undermines confidence in business and benefits the very people circumventing the law.

Retail Food Group is a large aussie asx listed franchisor that has just been caught motivating its franchises to underpay staff. Investors who knew nothing lost 26% of their investment when this hit the media.
 
I agree most cases would be small business but i think about cases like that bakery where they had 800 illegal workers out of 2500 employees.

Yes they got caught but i can't believe that it was impossible to catch that before it got so severe.

Also while the risk is low if it carries severe penalties it is not worth the risk.

Anyway before we go further what structure do you think is used to pay illegal employees in legit businesses (I am not interested in person to person employment like a nanny or gardener as that will require separate systems to eradicate).
Are they in books charged tax or completely off books paid with untaxed dollars?

The bakery makes the news because of how rare it is. But they didn't hire 800 illegals. They used a firm that provided them with the employees. The firm hired 800 illegals and sent them to the bakery. And they weren't screwing them on the wages, they were making legal wages since, as far as the bakery knew, they were legal employees.

Well, usually the illegal has some kind of fake SSN or other document that allows them to collect a W-2. Those guys are getting paid just like any other employee with withholdings and payroll and all that stuff. The guys getting paid under the table aren't being hired in large numbers at an individual establishment because the employer knows/wonders if they're illegal and the problems that come with it.
 
Further i should it undermines confidence in business and benefits the very people circumventing the law.

Retail Food Group is a large aussie asx listed franchisor that has just been caught motivating its franchises to underpay staff. Investors who knew nothing lost 26% of their investment when this hit the media.

Underpay staff or hire illegal aliens?
 
That's certainly true. People certainly don't like the implication that their job could be done for less by a less educated individual...although why they don't vote for union protections in greater numbers always surprises me.

For those specific people, they should be less concerned about the actual illegals and more concerned about what it says about their jobs and bargaining power in the grand scheme of things.
This x1000

I’m a general foreman/superintendent in commercial construction (union also)..I started out non union building trac Homes..

90 percent of the carpenters that are non union are illegal(at least in southern Cali)..but I’d say 100 percent of there bosses/owners are anti immigration..kinda perplexing because there the one benefiting from the cheap labor..on the union side,nope illegals cannot gain membership so it’s not really an issue..but we as union carpenters have certification/license/training up the wazoo,things illegals and non union guys don’t..our jobs aren’t In jeopardy,we aren’t threatened..people who are on the othe other end of the spectrum view illegals as a threat because they are.
unskilled labor and low pay/low experience work is easily taken by illegals and employers are lining up to hire them.
 
The bakery makes the news because of how rare it is. But they didn't hire 800 illegals. They used a firm that provided them with the employees. The firm hired 800 illegals and sent them to the bakery. And they weren't screwing them on the wages, they were making legal wages since, as far as the bakery knew, they were legal employees.

Well, usually the illegal has some kind of fake SSN or other document that allows them to collect a W-2. Those guys are getting paid just like any other employee with withholdings and payroll and all that stuff. The guys getting paid under the table aren't being hired in large numbers at an individual establishment because the employer knows/wonders if they're illegal and the problems that come with it.

I think the bakery made the news because of how blatant it was.

The source of the employees actually makes it worse. A company whose job is to recruit staff does not even check their legality. That's clearly a problem and you can not tell me it nots a problem when recruiter don't even have to assess legality A legally and B to get jobs.
Is that not an obvious requirement for any law abiding employer.

As to fake SSN, so companies remit tax information to the irs for faked ssns and no one can pick up on that?
That has to be willful retardation.
 
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