Why do UFC fighters rarely look for the Thai clinch (plum)?

[j123]

Eddie Alvarez beating up Cowboy is another good example of getting owned while holding the plum.

It’s just very hard to be effective with it in mma

He landed punches from there, but cowboy mauled his gut with knees

 

[WarriorMonk7]

So - when entering the clinch - when do you look for the Thai plum and when do you look for underhooks? How to decide?

Personal preference?

 

[j123]

So - when entering the clinch - when do you look for the Thai plum and when do you look for underhooks? How to decide?

Personal preference?

For me, I'm a striker first and very heavy on sprawl and brawl, so I look for the clinch when its available. Its a bit of a weird thing, do my best to stay standing and avoid the ground, yet I engage in clinch work.

Usually if I notice they shell longer than they should, its when I go in. It sounds long, but its a very brief second. Usually people fire back immediately, almost 1:1 ratio, but my tell for their shell or being non-reactive is they block and don't retaliate 1+ second.

The other instance is when we by luck end up in the clinch, and I can tell he knows nothing about it, so I end up capitalizing on it.

Clinching in MT is like with regular grappling, if there's no reaction in small movements like say we're in a single collar, and I move to bicep control and he's non-reactive or doesn't even show resistance, I know he don't know shit and immediately go to town with the usual tactics.

I look for underhooks when I'm nearing the fence/wall and have a feeling he's going to shoot or wants me on my back.

 

[shincheckin]

Is it because of the threat of the takedown?

Seems like most prefer looking for underhooks.

you answered your own question

Anderson Silva used it with incredible effectiveness. But he is one in a million... and roided.

its worth mentioning rich franklin did not know how to clinch....AT ALL!!!!

I can specifically remember watching this fight back in the day and being amazed at a guy in the UFC and no clinch?!?!?

 

[William Huggins]

If other kinds of clinches are available since there is not big boxing glove, the plum probably isnt needed. What does the plum give you that other clinches will not?

The clinch gets Joe Rogan's rocks off and therefore it's worth extra points.......

 

[Paradigm]

Because other than Joanna, Karolina and Matt Brown there aren't really any 'real' muay thai fighters in the UFC. There is a world of difference between kicking the pads with a vaguely muay thai technique and knowing muay thai. So a lot of them guys just don't know how to make the most of the clinch, and if they did they'd probably be working from overunders and body locks a lot more to land their knee strikes and sweeps.

Always felt that Matt Brown had some of the truest to MT type of game in MMA. He always had some nice trips and sweeps from the clinch...a shame he didn't get to fight Condit this weekend (for both of them).

 

[ctrlaltdelete]

Yall remember Saki's debut in UFC? The guy he was fighting was getting ragdolled until he clinched Saki up. Landed some good knees, threw him around a little... But then let go and tried to bang but... Saki banged first.

 

[j123]

Yall remember Saki's debut in UFC? The guy he was fighting was getting ragdolled until he clinched Saki up. Landed some good knees, threw him around a little... But then let go and tried to bang but... Saki banged first.

Can't outbang a professional bangbros

 

[William Huggins]

It's a shame because Thai clinch work is not just one position, it is rare to see in Muay Thai within Thailand a static clinch of one position and a continuing torrent of knees unless the other fighter has had it or they was fighting Dieselnoi....<45>

Lots of people think the Thai "Plum" is the only position within Muay Thai....

 

[WarriorMonk7]

It's a shame because Thai clinch work is not just one position, it is rare to see in Muay Thai within Thailand a static clinch of one position and a continuing torrent of knees unless the other fighter has had it or they was fighting Dieselnoi....<45>

Lots of people think the Thai "Plum" is the only position within Muay Thai....

I watched the Malaipet DVD on the clinch. Some of the techniques seemed a bit unrealistic for MMA though.

 

[My2Cents]

Wrong technique is what went wrong

 

[William Huggins]

I watched the Malaipet DVD on the clinch. Some of the techniques seemed a bit unrealistic for MMA though.

Some are and some need adaptation, it's a different ruleset.......

 

[AndyMaBobs]

I watched the Malaipet DVD on the clinch. Some of the techniques seemed a bit unrealistic for MMA though.

Watch Matt Brown and Alistair Overeem and you'll see it works

 

[Superhet]

Because other than Joanna, Karolina and Matt Brown there aren't really any 'real' muay thai fighters in the UFC. There is a world of difference between kicking the pads with a vaguely muay thai technique and knowing muay thai. So a lot of them guys just don't know how to make the most of the clinch, and if they did they'd probably be working from overunders and body locks a lot more to land their knee strikes and sweeps.

This

Perhaps counterintuitively, the last place a transitioning thaiboxer wants to get into on the feet with an mma fighter is the clinch. Not merely because they can be taken down, but because the gloves and the threat of takedowns transform the mma clinch into something completely different from the thaiboxing clinch. The last thing anyone, especially someone with a striking background wants is to end up on the bottom, and if you try to clinch like a thaiboxer standing tall and pressing your hip in you'll end up there real quick. And remember, it's only because knees to the head of a downed opponent are illegal that you have to knee someone's head in the clinch rather than on the ground in the first place. But fighting out of ground and pound and submissions is still the worst position to be in. So even if someone's base is thaiboxing, they are probably more likely to conclude that they don't want to be in the clinch in mma rather than that they must adapt it.

And any decent clincher will have found out that "side control" is more effective than double collars. Double collars quickly lose their effectiveness the taller and stronger your opponent becomes, and they leave too much room for him to cause problems and resist because he has both of his arms, his balance and his center of gravity free. You don't see the double collar clinch much because it simply isn't a very sound technique in the first place. Flanking him with an underhook which you can transition into different grips is both more effective at landing and avoiding damage, and more efficient in energy expenditure.

There are your two reasons why ufc fighters rarely look for the double collars.

 

[Chok Sok Te]

If you keep a wide base and swing your knees back and forth I can’t imagine it being easy for a grappler to secure a take down, unless of course they are familiar with sweeps? Then again I’m no grappling specialist.

 

[Superhet]

If you keep a wide base and swing your knees back and forth I can’t imagine it being easy for a grappler to secure a take down, unless of course they are familiar with sweeps? Then again I’m no grappling specialist.

No takedown is ever expected to be easy. A competent wrestler knows to chain his takedowns and combine them with feints, strikes and off balances. All of that is easier to do when someone is trying to or has a double collar on you (rather than when they have a combination of at least one underhook and something else).

 

[Chok Sok Te]

No takedown is ever expected to be easy. A competent wrestler knows to chain his takedowns and combine them with feints, strikes and off balances. All of that is easier to do when someone is trying to or has a double collar on you.

Cheers man, I’m trying to progressively learn more arts but finding time to dedicate myself to them is hard, Thai is my priority

 

[mikiemike87]

As someone else mentioned DJ uses muay thai clinching transitionally on top of his wrestling game fantastically. Here he throws 2 knees in double collar and immediately counters Dodson own attempt at it.There's a reason no one engages DJ in the clinch anymore. His transitioning from wrestling and thai style clinching has completely dominated a gold medal wrestler and a combat sambo champ. I think in a couple more years, we'll see more hybrid clinching styles like DJ. He's way ahead of the curve at the moment.