Why GSP cannot be the GOAT

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ThunderStruck said:
Ummm GSP's next fight is a move up to fight the champ and unlike AS vs anyone at LHW he will be clearly outsized. Moving up to fight bums because your division is weak is not nearly as impressive as GSP fighting guys on huge win streaks. Shields Fitch Alves and even Hardy were all on a roll and on top of their confidence. Did Griffin, Bonnar and Irvin look at the top of their game before fighting AS? Hell no. GSP's accomplishment are greater no matter what your biased ass thinks.
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You are way too biased. You don't understand anything. GSP is "moving up2 to face the weakest champion MW ever had.

You're full of sh*t, GSP is a fraud.
 
Maybe not the GOAT, but he is in that elite-level echelon reserved for Anderson Silva, Fedor and Jon Jones
 
NotSoSure said:
You are way too biased. You don't understand anything. GSP is "moving up2 to face the weakest champion MW ever had.

You're full of sh*t, GSP is a fraud.
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In the context of prize fighting, fraud means his fights were fixed ... quite a different thing than saying someone is overrated. Are you sure that's what you mean to say?

In terms of overrated, GSP being overrated means he shouldn't have been rated the number one WW, which raises the question who should have been rated number one while he was UFC champ. Some people say it should have been Askren, and I've heard people say Nick Diaz should have been rated higher than GSP even while GSP was champ (can't say I ever followed the logic, but it was said) ... and some folks were saying that Hendricks should have been rated higher than GSP even before they fought (ie GSP shouldn't have been fighting Condit or Diaz).

Personally, I'd argue that GSP was properly rated the top WW while he was UFC champ - its inherent in being the champ. But ratings are subjective, so its logically possible that he should only have been rated 2nd or 10th or even 1000th, depending upon the subjective criteria used. I fully expect to hear that saying that is huge bias against GSP, but its inherent in subjectivity.


If its about overall favorite fighters, I'd pick Fedor, Jones and Anderson above him, though he's in their league and its subjective. And Jones testing positive twice is pretty bad - it likely means he was using extremely high doses (the difference between going 5 mph over the speed limit and not getting caught and going 50 mph over the speed limit and getting caught).

The reason I say favorite and not GOAT is because its impossible to meaningfully compare dominant champs in different weight divisions. Anyone who can actually do that kind of analysis is making too much money betting on real fights to bother getting into the argument, since its an order of magnitude easier to predict the outcome of two fighters in the same weight division than to predict what would happen if two different weight fighters were suddenly the same size (ie P4P all time great).
 
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AnotherOldGuy said:
In the context of prize fighting, fraud means his fights were fixed ... quite a different thing than saying someone is overrated. Are you sure that's what you mean to say?

In terms of overrated, GSP being overrated means he shouldn't have been rated the number one WW, which raises the question who should have been rated number one while he was UFC champ. Some people say it should have been Askren, and I've heard people say Nick Diaz should have been rated higher than GSP even while GSP was champ (can't say I ever followed the logic, but it was said) ... and some folks were saying that Hendricks should have been rated higher than GSP even before they fought (ie GSP shouldn't have been fighting Condit or Diaz).

Personally, I'd argue that GSP was properly rated the top WW while he was UFC champ - its inherent in being the champ. But ratings are subjective, so its logically possible that he should only have been rated 2nd or 10th or even 1000th, depending upon the subjective criteria used. I fully expect to hear that saying that is huge bias against GSP, but its inherent in subjectivity.


If its about overall favorite fighters, I'd pick Fedor, Jones and Anderson above him, though he's in their league and its subjective. And Jones testing positive twice is pretty bad - it likely means he was using extremely high doses (the difference between going 5 mph over the speed limit and not getting caught and going 50 mph over the speed limit and getting caught).

The reason I say favorite and not GOAT is because its impossible to meaningfully compare dominant champs in different weight divisions. Anyone who can actually do that kind of analysis is making too much money betting on real fights to bother getting into the argument, since its an order of magnitude easier to predict the outcome of two fighters in the same weight division than to predict what would happen if two different weight fighters were suddenly the same size (ie P4P all time great).
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The word "fraud" is being used lightly. It's not meant in the way you meant, but mostly that people's idea of GSP is inaccurate, incorrect, false, fraudulent. That's all. GSP himself accomplished what he could, with the supplements he had and the weak opposition in from of him: that was legit.

The fraud is created by the fanboys who elevate him to a status he simply does not belong to.
 
NotSoSure said:
The word "fraud" is being used lightly. It's not meant in the way you meant, but mostly that people's idea of GSP is inaccurate, incorrect, false, fraudulent. That's all. GSP himself accomplished what he could, with the supplements he had and the weak opposition in from of him: that was legit.

The fraud is created by the fanboys who elevate him to a status he simply does not belong to.
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Though in that case what you probably want to say is not that GSP is a fraud (not even in the sense you mean, as I think he's been pretty careful not to be the greatest fighter ever - he seems to think that's Fedor), but that his fans are frauds ... and there's definitely a case to be made there.
 
NotSoSure said:
The word "fraud" is being used lightly. It's not meant in the way you meant, but mostly that people's idea of GSP is inaccurate, incorrect, false, fraudulent. That's all. GSP himself accomplished what he could, with the supplements he had and the weak opposition in from of him: that was legit.

The fraud is created by the fanboys who elevate him to a status he simply does not belong to.
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Whos the fraud, his fans claiming he is a top 3 goat in mma, or a retarded moron like you who claims he isn't even top 20? Let's make a poll and see who is the fucking fraud here.
 
ThunderStruck said:
Whos the fraud, his fans claiming he is a top 3 goat in mma, or a retarded moron like you who claims he isn't even top 20? Let's make a poll and see who is the fucking fraud here.
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Not even top 20 buddy.

Top 3??????<45><Moves>
 
NotSoSure said:
Not even top 20 buddy.

Top 3??????<45><Moves>
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This is where you fall flat though. I can respect someone who does not feel perhaps he is GOAT, or even in the top 3, but to say not even top 20 is just stupidity.
 
suffersystem said:
This is where you fall flat though. I can respect someone who does not feel perhaps he is GOAT, or even in the top 3, but to say not even top 20 is just stupidity.
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Call me whatever you want. I've made a convincing, truthful argument that GSP is not up there.
 
NotSoSure said:
Call me whatever you want. I've made a convincing, truthful argument that GSP is not up there.
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It is not convincing, nor truthful though. To say he is not even top 20 is just plain idiotic. Hell, I could even understand an argument him being out the top 5, but not top 20 is where the BS meter just goes through the roof. You really should have gone with top 10 if you wanted to be taken half serious.
 
suffersystem said:
It is not convincing, nor truthful though. To say he is not even top 20 is just plain idiotic. Hell, I could even understand an argument him being out the top 5, but not top 20 is where the BS meter just goes through the roof. You really should have gone with top 10 if you wanted to be taken half serious.
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I don't need you assessment though. Thank you, I appreciate it.
 
NotSoSure said:
Call me whatever you want. I've made a convincing, truthful argument that GSP is not up there.
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Did you make that argument using anything but the tapping? Because if tapping is enough to put someone out of the top 20, then Fedor, GSP, Anderson, Conor, and in fact most of the usual mentions for top 20 (other than Jones, who has PED test trouble) is out of the top 20. Its going to be a very interesting top 20 list without people who've tapped.

And if you are still saying that tapping to strikes is worse, then you're left having to show that medically not tapping to strikes has less consequences than not tapping to chokes or locks, and I think you're going to find that very hard given the last decade's worth of concussion research. Without that the argument is anything but convincing - arbitrarily deciding that tapping to the most harmful kind of danger is the least acceptable form of tapping is simply ridiculous. You might as well say its better to tap to a stubbed toe than to a head strike, the differences in harm between chokes and strikes is on that level.
 
AnotherOldGuy said:
Did you make that argument using anything but the tapping? Because if tapping is enough to put someone out of the top 20, then Fedor, GSP, Anderson, Conor, and in fact most of the usual mentions for top 20 (other than Jones, who has PED test trouble) is out of the top 20. Its going to be a very interesting top 20 list without people who've tapped.

And if you are still saying that tapping to strikes is worse, then you're left having to show that medically not tapping to strikes has less consequences than not tapping to chokes or locks, and I think you're going to find that very hard given the last decade's worth of concussion research. Without that the argument is anything but convincing - arbitrarily deciding that tapping to the most harmful kind of danger is the least acceptable form of tapping is simply ridiculous. You might as well say its better to tap to a stubbed toe than to a head strike, the differences in harm between chokes and strikes is on that level.
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There are about 20 reasons laid out throughout the thread that explain why GSP does not qualify even to the top 20 greatest fighters.
 
He finished and destroyed the most dominant WW champ ever for the belt at the time, say what you will but he did it.

There hasn't been a real dominant champ since in any weight class besides ando.

Jones doesn't count since he keeps getting the belt stripped for doping.

If it's not GSP by your standards it has to be Matt hughes.
 
if you only care about a fighter's record, then there is a case to be made for gsp. if you actually care about the way fights go, then he can't be the goat. to me, it's that simple.
 
NotSoSure said:
No, you've made other errors that disqualify you from holding a conversation.

There's no trolling here apart from your fanatical love for GSP.

He has faced C-level competition, was juicing while accusing others of doing so, and never finished tough relevant opponents. He's mediocre.
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Troll harder, your obsessed and need help
 
Agreed. Everyone talks crap about prime Fedor being a can crusher, but at least he beat his cans.
 
NotSoSure said:
I'm not the one infatuated with some second tier fighter. You need help troll.
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Lol how are you not infatuated by him?? you've been going on about him for days.

Dude it's obvious your a closet homo for GSP.
 
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