will future generations care more about E sports and less about actual sports?

Discussion in 'Video Game Forum' started by Drew Peasack, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. KaNesDeath

    KaNesDeath Black Belt

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    Highest earning player from prize pool is 52K in Overwatch, a game thats 18 months old. Fallen(CSGO Pro player) started playing CSGO regularly at the international Pro level one year prior to Overwatch being released. His prize pool earnings in those 30 months is 667K.

    CSGO player is averaging 200K per year while the Overwatch player is averaging 30K a year. These are the two best earners in their game. Highest earning Overwatch player yearly salary is equivalent to a full time minimum wage employee.

    Do you understand how ludicrous the 6th most viewed esport statistic is now?
     
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  2. Madmick

    Madmick The Real Hexakaideca Cherokee Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Who fucking cares?

    Top guy in CS:GO has a measly 667K? Top guys in Dota 2 are all over $2m because of The International's grand prize payout; the drastic winner-take-all type of prizefighting that you tend to see in less organized, less unionized, less affluent sports, and that's where eSports are right now. You're citing lack of parity in pay to shit on Overwatch (because your a Valve employee). You think this through? You tried visiting this argument on your own girl?

    So the top guy in CS:GO has earned 667K in 2 1/2 years when the top Overwatch player has earned $52K in 18 months? Whoopdy-do. Winning that Dota 2 tournament this year-- that single payout-- pushed every guy on that team past your little CS:GO boy's girlie girlie earnings in the past 18 months.
    https://www.esportsearnings.com/history/2017/games
    Of the top 68 earning gamers, 64 are Dota 2 gamers, and 4 are League of Legends gamers. I guess that's it! Those are the only eSports. MOBAs and nothing else. Everything else is bullshit because of pay disparity. That's how we're arbitrarily drawing this line because we decided to go with the MOBA-fanboy argument rather than your CS:GO fanboy argument.

    Fallen made it all the way to #69?? Wow, what a number. He should cut out his ribs like Marilyn Manson and blow himself while hanging upside down in his hotel room to celebrate.

    In those 18 months Overwatch eSport prize payouts have exceeded $56m in total. To most of us that kind of money forms the backbone of a viable business enterprise. You can try to spin this in a million different ways, but on an absolute scale, whether in terms of eSports viewership, competitive playtime, tournaments, and prize money, this is a Top 10 eSport-- typically Top 6:
    https://www.esportsearnings.com/history/2017/games
    https://www.esportsearnings.com/games
    • #6 in total payouts among all games in 2017
    • #7 (this month) in total eSport viewership hours (a full 18 months after release)
    • #4 in total eSport tournaments awarding prize money

    How many times you wanna lick off this spoon, sweetcheeks? Do you honestly believe that you're representing Valve and the CS:GO gaming community well in these threads?
     
  3. KaNesDeath

    KaNesDeath Black Belt

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    With the topic of esports you have this pattern of speaking in general overtures without understanding their status. I politely tried to explain to you their context. You seem to have a presence in multiple areas where your knowledge on those matters is impressive. This is one area though that youre misunderstanding the information. Crash course of source material used for reference is misguided on their true stature.

    When we talk about the success of football or baseball we refer to viewership numbers, salaries and ad revenue at the top tier of professional play. Whats unseen and is the main factor driving to its continued success are the third party support systems feeding into the top tier of play. These begin at the public/private school programs and youth programs. If these unseen support systems ceased to exist tomorrow the top tier in the years to come would fade away into obscurity.

    Overwatch esport doesnt have this support structure. Nor does the top tier play have the information to prove its success for the data is limited to celebrity show matches at Blizzcon. Daybreak used the same metrics with its success on Twitch with their show matches at Twitchcon to secure broadcasting rights on CW for professional play, it bombed.

    Find and read the document Blizzard put forth to venture capitalists for the Overwatch League. Guidelines to warrant its projected earnings was solely based on the current success/structure of LoL, Dota2, CSGO and of all things WWE.

    These are areas youre refusing to grasp solely because you dislike the messenger.
     
  4. Madmick

    Madmick The Real Hexakaideca Cherokee Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    So because Valve isn't running it...it isn't an eSport.

    *Sigh*

    We'll couch that in a spurious "support structure" argument, which is entirely irrelevant to whether or not a sport is a sport. Perhaps more saliently, it's just another bad argument. For instance, it ignores that the golden age of boxing in this country in the 20th century, when it was at its most popular, never had a deeply developed AAU program, nor sophisticated and widespread farming programs at a youth level like Pop Warner & Little League, nor was it even a secondary school club victim of the rise of litigation (similar to Pole Vaulting, Hammer, Javelin, Diving-- the most dangerous sports and apparatuses that ultimately succumbed to unsustainable insurance fees and legal payouts).

    All of this despite the fact that four different professional organizations existed, and all still true today. No, the heart and soul of boxing always has been independent beat up gyms that-- like Frankie in Million Dollar Baby pointed out-- tend to struggle. Bodies like USA Boxing did little more than organize amateur competition.

    This is the clearly the essence of your argument (now). You aren't organized enough to be considered a real eSport, PinocchiOverwatch. This despite that it is organized enough to deliver $56m in payouts, and that's exactly what makes a professional sport....professional. Previously you repeatedly emphasized this distinction between "casual" and "competitive" play, such as in eSport viewership share hours on Twitch, but now you're trying to emphasize the casual dimension again that feeds the professional.

    There was a time when Skateboarding was just in backyard pools. Now we have the X-Games. I wonder at what point Skateboarding grew into a real boy. To where does one trace the origin of the Cooperstown myth?

    Indeed, here, yet again, you have formed a faulty premise. Not every sport is successful in the same way, and nobody cares about "support structures" who isn't an active participant. After all, the entire point of professional sports is spectacle, not how that spectacle came to be. Athletes care about cash prizes. They care about the glory of filled arenas. Fans care about The Show. They care about that celebrity Blizzcon event you're disparaging. They don't care about minivans or cap sheets for venture capitalists. They don't care about untelevised qualifiers.

    I have shot down faulty premise after faulty premise, again and again, until this is what you're left. When one argument fails, you try another, even contradictory ones, and yet you perceive me as the one having a confirmation bias. The difference between you and me regarding this topic is that I'm not bending over backwards to not see what is so obvious-- what is plain as day. I don't dislike you, Kane. On the contrary, we have a great deal in common, I sense beyond what I already know. More than anything I'm indifferent. My issue is with your ridiculous shilling and fanboyism on the matter of everything CS:GO.

    Blizzard doesn't have to do things the way that Valve believes is the correct way to do things in order for them to qualify. Valve doesn't issue certifications for this. They don't have that authority.
     
  5. KaNesDeath

    KaNesDeath Black Belt

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    We are talking about a game that doesnt have a scoreboard, places teammates in different voice chat lobbies by default and filters out "GG" in text chat. With the game company creating an exclusive league solely based out of North America when their target audience is in Asia. While third party systems built up throughout the past two decades to promote esports abandoned the game a year after its release.

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-06-27-a-year-on-from-launch-overwatch-is-a-struggling-esport

    Core of your original point was its stature within the top 10 most viewed esport titles. I tried to politely relay to you numerous times with factual data the flaw of simply stating its ranking. Im done, its impossible to reason with your willing naivety on this matter.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2017
  6. Palis

    Palis ♔ Into flexible chicks

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    Hahahaha you still on that low skill Overwatch dick?
     
  7. iThrillhouse

    iThrillhouse Silver Belt

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    Think about it like watching pro physical sports, I can watch ice hockey, football or whatever, doesnt mean im capable of playing it, its good entertainment

    Esports is same thing I can watch it, understand how it works and get entertainment, doesnt mean I HAVE to be playing it

    Twitch.tv and esports is great entertainment for its value.

    Free to play games like League of Legends is a constantly changing game with new ways to play win etc... football always gonna be who can score morw touchdowns than the other, hockey going to be the same

    Physical sports change with how athletes evolve, whether its speed, physicality etc

    esports like Dota or League change all the time and constantly have players coming up with new strategies to win, which makes it entertaining.

    Itd be like if football suddenly was like, fieldgoals outside of 35 yards are worth 4 points, inside 35, worth 2.

    Or in hockey if they ditched the overtime loser point, or went to a three point per win system


    Point is the game changes enough to be entertaining standalone and doesnt require me “playing it myself instead”

    Just cause you enjoy watching football doesnt mean you can run a football field length in 14 seconds or for that matter want to do it lol

    Twitch.tv/esports is great background noise too, if you find a streamer of a game that has similar interests likes, is funny ir tolerable, then it becomes like a relatable talkshow about down to earth people doing what they’re good at.

    I dunno I was weery on twitch.tv and esports years ago, then my wife sent a donation to a popular streamer and he read it out lpud on stream and had a good laugh over it, totally changes your perspective when you can interact with whom your watching, AS you’re watching!
     
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  8. Madmick

    Madmick The Real Hexakaideca Cherokee Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Yet you have substantiated none. You brought NewZoo to the table originally, didn't you? Now you dismiss it.

    The entire point of that article is that Blizzard's announcement for the upcoming league has thrown the current competitive scene into flux. Remember this article from two years ago?
    Dota 2 is the world's richest e-sport, so why aren't its players happy?
    Highly similar points being forwarded about a third party scene in disarray.

    I'm not the one who works for one of these two companies. Brass off with the attempt to brand me as the biased one. Stop hyperbolically insulting your competition. Make an effort to emphasize the concrete differences and advantages that one eSport has over another, but don't say stupid shit like, "That's not an eSport."

    That was your argument that kicked this whole damn thing off between us.
     
  9. CastletonSnob

    CastletonSnob Orange Belt

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    Will Esports ever get as many viewers as something like the Super Bowl?
     
  10. 21 Savage

    21 Savage Banned Banned

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    probably
     
  11. WorldofWarcraft

    WorldofWarcraft Holy Paladin Banned

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    Only a matter of time. NFL ratings have been decreasing. Pro gaming has been on the upswing.
     
  12. BjPenn2017

    BjPenn2017 Brown Belt

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    For losers
     
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  13. Jesus X

    Jesus X Gold Belt

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    some kids are athletes by nature ,I was an athlete since age 4. all you have to do is put a ball in a kids hand and they will gravitate toward sports if they are athletes.
     
  14. Jesus X

    Jesus X Gold Belt

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    faze censor is also in pretty ridiculous shape these gamers have a lot of free time to work out
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Byron Carter

    Byron Carter Purveyor of Wisdom Banned

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    MadMick comes off as a giant cock gobbler no matter what he's arguing for. Whether it's politics, or video game definitions.

    Professional Sports are already dying, they don't need any help from esports.
     
  16. Ice That Jaw

    Ice That Jaw Red Belt

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    Yes. There are more kids these days without fathers. Kids only get into sports because of their fathers.
     
  17. Madmick

    Madmick The Real Hexakaideca Cherokee Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Is that why American sports are dominated by African-American men when 75% of them are raised by their mothers?

    The fact that the National College Football Championship isn't even broadcast OTA on national networks for free is a much larger threat to the future of dominance for the traditional big 3 ball sports (Football, Baseball, Basketball) than the lack of parenthood. It's similar to the media landscape with TV, Movies, Music, etc. Other sports are being filled. Everything is being fragmented. The mainstream isn't nearly as mighty. To each his own.

    eSports, too, certainly, but again, eSports and physical sports aren't going to remain mutually exclusive for long.
     
  18. Ice That Jaw

    Ice That Jaw Red Belt

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    Come back at me when you have stats showing 75% of black athletes didn't have dads.
     
  19. Madmick

    Madmick The Real Hexakaideca Cherokee Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Come back at me when you have any stats substantiating your claim. I'm more than happy to snipe via broad correlation.
     
  20. The Best JG

    The Best JG Platinum Nation!!

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    Yes. Well that was easy
     

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