Will MMA become a fixed style?

[BringBackTRTforFairness]

Will MMA become a fixed style?

Would the below high percentage techniques be the style? (offensive techniques listed only)


STAND UP: Jab, Cross, Hooks, Uppercuts, Low Kicks

TAKEDOWNS: X2 Leg, Single Leg, High tie Up clinch takedowns

GROUND GAME: strikes from top, wrestling control, Rear naked choke, arm bars,


You can get the highest % stuff and create the ultimate fixed style almost?

 

[a guy]

No. Every martial art has a wide variety of styles, no matter how open or specialized the ruleset. In something as open as MMA, there's always going to be tremendous variation.

You could take 10 guys, teach them all those same techniques, and still have them fight completely differently.

 

[ssullivan80]

No. Every martial art has a wide variety of styles, no matter how open or specialized the ruleset. In something as open as MMA, there's always going to be tremendous variation.

You could take 10 guys, teach them all those same techniques, and still have them fight completely differently.

I agree, but you'd easily be able to make the same argument for any combat sport.

I do however believe that MMA in many respects already has become a discipline in and of itself. The concept of mixed martial arts is still there, but take each art individually (Boxing, MT, Wrestling, etc....) at it's purest form and no longer is it truly MMA, if that makes sense. What MMA is evolving into is it's own form of fighting that although incorporating techniques from a wide variety of martial arts they have to make adjustments to adapt to fighting an MMA style match. In other words, true mixed martial artists were part of the infancy of MMA as the sport hadn't been around long enough, nor had the popularity to have dedicated MMA style training. The guys competing in MMA now and in the future, the vast majority of them are going to begin their training as MMA athletes, training MMA, in MMA gyms.

 

[a guy]

I agree, but you'd easily be able to make the same argument for any combat sport.

I do however believe that MMA in many respects already has become a discipline in and of itself. The concept of mixed martial arts is still there, but take each art individually (Boxing, MT, Wrestling, etc....) at it's purest form and no longer is it truly MMA, if that makes sense. What MMA is evolving into is it's own form of fighting that although incorporating techniques from a wide variety of martial arts they have to make adjustments to adapt to fighting an MMA style match. In other words, true mixed martial artists were part of the infancy of MMA as the sport hadn't been around long enough, nor had the popularity to have dedicated MMA style training. The guys competing in MMA now and in the future, the vast majority of them are going to begin their training as MMA athletes, training MMA in MMA gyms.

I said this in another thread, but even MMA gyms still teach the individual arts then mix them. Most have a class for boxing, kickboxing, wrestling and BJJ, maybe a karate or judo class or something like that too. Most of the time these classes are run by specialists: so at gym the head boxing coach is a former pro boxer, then head kickboxing coach is pro kickboxer, the wrestling coach was a D1 wrestler, and the BJJ coach is a blackbelt, and then the assistant coaches are less qualified but still mostly specialists. Some of them have fought in MMA, some haven't. Usually you have to show a certain level of proficiency in the specialist classes before you get invited to the MMA classes, then once you show a certain level of proficiency there and express a desire to you can train with the fight team separately from the regular members.

There's just way too much to learn for MMA to be it's own discipline. It needs to be broken down before it can all be put together, and preferably by specialists. You need guys in the gym who have experience with combining all the arts, but you also need guys who's only focus is to push the limits of each individual art to ensure the highest level of instruction. I know of a few gyms that do beginner MMA classes, and the guys who jump right into those tend to be worse fighters than the ones who get more specialized training because they're somewhat familiar with everything but just aren't really good at anything.

 

[BringBackTRTforFairness]

No. Every martial art has a wide variety of styles, no matter how open or specialized the ruleset. In something as open as MMA, there's always going to be tremendous variation.

You could take 10 guys, teach them all those same techniques, and still have them fight completely differently.

thanks for your answer not sure if I agree or not

I said this in another thread, but even MMA gyms still teach the individual arts then mix them. Most have a class for boxing, kickboxing, wrestling and BJJ, maybe a karate or judo class or something like that too. Most of the time these classes are run by specialists: so at gym the head boxing coach is a former pro boxer, then head kickboxing coach is pro kickboxer, the wrestling coach was a D1 wrestler, and the BJJ coach is a blackbelt, and then the assistant coaches are less qualified but still mostly specialists. Some of them have fought in MMA, some haven't. Usually you have to show a certain level of proficiency in the specialist classes before you get invited to the MMA classes, then once you show a certain level of proficiency there and express a desire to you can train with the fight team separately from the regular members.

There's just way too much to learn for MMA to be it's own discipline. It needs to be broken down before it can all be put together, and preferably by specialists. You need guys in the gym who have experience with combining all the arts, but you also need guys who's only focus is to push the limits of each individual art to ensure the highest level of instruction. I know of a few gyms that do beginner MMA classes, and the guys who jump right into those tend to be worse fighters than the ones who get more specialized training because they're somewhat familiar with everything but just aren't really good at anything.

But dont you learn a whole load of junk you dont need going the specialist route? Which you then have to unlearn?

You get the wrong stance, your head is in the wrong place for take downs, your not allowed to hit in wrestling, you have to slip in a way that makes you vulnerable to kicks in boxing and so on

Wouldnt the head coaches of muay thai, boxing wrestling and bjj be better off getting together and creating a mix of all the high % stuff to teach them all the right things from the get go and non of the wrong things?

MMA is a different dynamic, the wrestling coach needs to teach the wrestler to block knees, put head to chest, use a different stance, set up with punches etc etc etc it just seems teh specialist coaches are not good enough unless theya re working with other specialist coaches with MMA effectiveness in mind

 

[a guy]

thanks for your answer not sure if I agree or not



But dont you learn a whole load of junk you dont need going the specialist route? Which you then have to unlearn?

You get the wrong stance, your head is in the wrong place for take downs, your not allowed to hit in wrestling, you have to slip in a way that makes you vulnerable to kicks in boxing and so on

Wouldnt the head coaches of muay thai, boxing wrestling and bjj be better off getting together and creating a mix of all the high % stuff to teach them all the right things from the get go and non of the wrong things?

MMA is a different dynamic, the wrestling coach needs to teach the wrestler to block knees, put head to chest, use a different stance, set up with punches etc etc etc it just seems teh specialist coaches are not good enough unless theya re working with other specialist coaches with MMA effectiveness in mind

Think about how many styles there are in boxing. It's all the same 6 punches. It's not really a matter of opinion, it's a fact that even with the same techniques there can and will be many styles. I mean even doing something as simple as jab-only drills, guys still use different styles.

Not really.

Every high level MMA fighter boxers with boxers, wrestles with wrestlers, kickboxers with kickboxers and does BJJ with BJJ black belts. Yes, some adjustments have to be made, but they aren't a very big deal if you're even moderately aware of the demands of MMA. Ideally the coaches would have an idea of what needs to be modified for MMA, in my gym they definitely do, but even if they don't it isn't the end of the world. People transition from pure styles successfully all the time.

 

[BringBackTRTforFairness]

Think about how many styles there are in boxing. It's all the same 6 punches. It's not really a matter of opinion, it's a fact that even with the same techniques there can and will be many styles. I mean even doing something as simple as jab-only drills, guys still use different styles.

Not really.

Every high level MMA fighter boxers with boxers, wrestles with wrestlers, kickboxers with kickboxers and does BJJ with BJJ black belts. Yes, some adjustments have to be made, but they aren't a very big deal if you're even moderately aware of the demands of MMA. Ideally the coaches would have an idea of what needs to be modified for MMA, in my gym they definitely do, but even if they don't it isn't the end of the world. People transition from pure styles successfully all the time.

From a purely pragmatic point of view you are not going to be able to improve your boxing much unless you are sparring with boxers, doing hands only sparring with MMA fighters and kickboxers is not gonna be anywhere near the same so since the specialist gets so good at what he does its always best to learn from him rather than a generalist, and to be a good generalist you better learn from many specialists.

I get it now.

Theres no perfect way but this is the best way by far

 

[Fire of Youth]

There will always be a certain amount of variability in how any given fighter fights. Saying that, I do sometimes get bored with MMA because it seems that any aggressive technique is countered with the established defence. You threaten takedown, I sprawl. You throw a kick, I back away. You push me up against the cage, I widen my base and use the cage to stabilise. etc. I usually have to take time off watching MMA so I forget these "counters" enough to enjoy the fight again.

Though more recently, I have become very disinterested in MMA. This is mostly due to the change of UFC leadership and how they market their fights. No longer is it a contest between big bads competing for alpha status. Now it is just who is the biggest whiney bitch to the cameras/reporters. Hopefully, one of the other MMA organisations will step up and become the new alpha organisation. [Apologies for hijacking the thread to air my UFC discontentment]

 

[MadSquabbles500]

The ruleset for sparring, and the point scoring criteria will always set the style. Not to say their cannot be multiple styles, and strategies so long as the ruleset, and score criteria have enough leeway for it.

 

[Noodles03]

I can't wait to see how MMA will evolve in the next 20 years. Heck, 20 years from now, it will probably look similar to wing chun.

 

[rmongler]

Talented fighters with gameplans that account for all their anticipated use-cases need specialists to train with because other talented complete fighters are rare.

Also because certain parts of the gameplan will have elements that are more essential/more important than others/pay greater dividends for training focus invested.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

Also, certain types of people tend to be good at different things.
Nobody is a specialist in all or even "most" areas. They're lucky to be a specialist in ONE discipline/area, and two is where it caps off (more like one and a half, such as expert at wrestling + so-so at boxing).

Even a single family of 6 doesn't all have the same talents. Physically or mentally (or personality).

Because of this, individual styles and strategies will vary far too wildly to standardize. None of the individual component styles have ever even become fixed styles-- think about that.

 

[Samuel Reynoso]

There is always a risk of conflating a successful pattern as the correct way of doing things. As far as I can tell, what's really dangerous for MAs is how they structure their amateur federations. It's hard to argue with success in the pro's, but with kids you can play favorites with styles, or even change the rules if you don't like the outcomes of matches.

 

[shincheckin]

it already is a fixed style

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

it already is a fixed style

This is also true, and I get what you mean Lol

A lot of the fighters are using the exact same tactics and if you couldn't see their faces or physical traits, you wouldn't know who was fighting because of a lot of MMA tactics and style has become homogeneous as of late, due to the harsh practice of eliminating those who risk more and lose opposed to those who risk very little to ensure a decision.

This has certainly stagnated the progress of MMA. At least the champions tend to have more recognizable styles and skills, usually-ish

 

[shincheckin]

This is also true, and I get what you mean Lol

A lot of the fighters are using the exact same tactics and if you couldn't see their faces or physical traits, you wouldn't know who was fighting because of a lot of MMA tactics and style has become homogeneous as of late, due to the harsh practice of eliminating those who risk more and lose opposed to those who risk very little to ensure a decision.

This has certainly stagnated the progress of MMA. At least the champions tend to have more recognizable styles and skills, usually-ish

no one wants to learn muay thai, they want to learn muay thai for mma, no one wants to learn boxing, they want to learn boxing for mma, so on and so forth. MMA has essentially become a combination of predominantly boxing, muay thai, bjj, and wrestling, with a few fighters here and there mixing in other martial arts. MMA has essentially become its own form of striking.

 

[Phelly2]

There's just way too much to learn for MMA to be it's own discipline. It needs to be broken down before it can all be put together, and preferably by specialists. You need guys in the gym who have experience with combining all the arts, but you also need guys who's only focus is to push the limits of each individual art to ensure the highest level of instruction. I know of a few gyms that do beginner MMA classes, and the guys who jump right into those tend to be worse fighters than the ones who get more specialized training because they're somewhat familiar with everything but just aren't really good at anything.

I was going to reply, but then this guy said it all.
+1

 

[BJJ Coffee Drinker]

no one wants to learn muay thai, they want to learn muay thai for mma, no one wants to learn boxing, they want to learn boxing for mma, so on and so forth. MMA has essentially become a combination of predominantly boxing, muay thai, bjj, and wrestling, with a few fighters here and there mixing in other martial arts. MMA has essentially become its own form of striking.

and this is why these guys will likely lose to a specialist in any area that can stifle their favored tactics

 

[Uchi Mata]

I think you could put together a basic curriculum of what most MMA fighters do/should know how to do. You'd be hard pressed to find many elite fighters who couldn't throw your four basic punches with decent technique, who couldn't throw a decent roundhouse, who didn't have a respectable single and double leg and know how to take people down with those and body locks off the cage, who didn't understand basic ground positioning for striking and submissions, who couldn't play some defensive guard, etc. But within all those areas there's so much variety in what you can do and how you can do it that's unlikely we'll ever have a small number of recognizable styles like you see in something a lot more limited like modern Judo or boxing. In addition, knowing something and being able to use it at a high level are two different things. Most successful guys are not generalists. They have something they do really, really well and the rest of their game is about creating opportunities to do that thing and preventing their opponents from getting their games going. Demian Maia and Robbie Lawler, to pick two guys on opposite ends of the spectrum, both have some knowledge of how to throw a cross and how to sweep from half guard. But you're sure as hell never going to see Brutal Bob pulling half to work up to a single leg, and you're pretty unlikely to see Maia sleeping people with his left. And that's okay. Maia's striking exists to set up his grappling, Lawler's grappling exists to allow him to stay up or get up off the mat and throw hands. FWIW this is a pretty common paradigm in most combat sports with a very wide variety of possible strategies for winning. BJJ is very much like this, in terms of having a specialty and using everything else just to route the match towards your area of greatest expertise.

 

[panamaican]

I think it is already a fixed style.

The difference between it and some other arts is that there isn't a host of well-trained instructors. So, while most people know and teach the "style", they're not very good at teaching it. Take the low kick that comes from MT plus a punch like the jab or the check hook. Depending on your instructor's history, their ability to teach those specific skills is limited. That's the reason so many gyms still bring in specialists to teach boxing, MT, wrestling, etc. - the teachers don't know enough. Either they haven't competed at a high level or they haven't had training at a high level themselves.

Give it a couple of years and you'll have guys in MMA that are like Freddie Roach, solid professional career transitioned into training. That trainer won't require his students to train boxing separately and MT and wrestling separately because they can teach the MMA elements at a high level themselves. Right now, it's too early in the sport and there aren't enough guys with the experience to also be top end trainers.

But the MMA style at the core is pretty much the same. Fighters are taking the same things from MT and the same things from boxing and the same things from wrestling and trying to combine them later.