Wilson Pits student Roberto Sharpe shows 52 Blocks Lytye Burley some bagua applications

[Sano]

Just to highlight

fantasy fu bagua






practical bagua

While some of it is very unrealistic in the way it's presented, and a bit deluded honestly, there are some good principles in there in a few of the vids. Using your hips to take angles, being centered, turning your opponent, armdragging, sweeping, throwing. These same things apply to Boxing, Judo and BJJ.

I like something like Tai Chi for instance if done correctly. Gives a good low center of gravity and should enable you to use your hips properly. It's basicly building a strong foundation that you can apply to all martial arts.

A lot of the same things goes through different martial arts, but it shouldn't be that surprising since they all pretty much have common ancestors. Sure, there is A LOT of bullshit in between.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Internal arts have some pretty decent power mechanics, but the emphasis on philosophy driven technique selection (i.e. deciding what to spend your practice time on on the basis of abstract concepts rather than what works in fights) and lack of sparring that is common to most Ba Gua and Tai Chi people makes it fairly useless in practice. I've definitely taken some things about how to generate force from the ground up that I learned in Tai Chi as well as how to initiate twisting motions from your waist that I learned in Ba Gua and applied to it Muay Thai, it works fine and I hit pretty hard (especially my hooks. Straight punches are not emphasized much in either art). The guy I've ever sparred with the most power was a Ba Gua guy, if you train it like a real art is has some good points. Just not very many people do.

 

[Fire of Youth]

this right here is nonsense. Theoretically speaking, its not impossible. Yes it could definitely work, but its not realistic. it would be extremely difficult to time and elbow someones punch coming in. its not impossible, it could be done, that being said, its not impossible to do a spinning back elbow onto someones punch coming in as well. Its possible, but not realistic. this is how I think we should look at things. Some martial arts turn into nonsense and become very flashy etc. I like to call these fantasy martial arts. It draws in the same type of people that like star wars, lord of the rings, larping, etc etc.

@Jimmy Jazz

Intercepting a punch with an elbow is surprisingly easy. If you are fast enough to slip a punch, then you are fast enough to pop your elbow up to where your face just was. You don't need to do it hard. The structure behind the elbow is all you need and the puncher provides all the necessary force. Works just as well against kicks and knees too.

 

[shincheckin]

Intercepting a punch with an elbow is surprisingly easy. If you are fast enough to slip a punch, then you are fast enough to pop your elbow up to where your face just was. You don't need to do it hard. The structure behind the elbow is all you need and the puncher provides all the necessary force. Works just as well against kicks and knees too.

that is basically doing a double forearm guard, maybe a bit higher and using the elbow.

like I said, theoretically, its possible to spinning back elbow a incoming fist.

I would really like to see a video of someone doing this, that was done intentionally rather than by accident. I actually knew a guy that was a body guard, he said he threw an elbow as the guy was punching, and it landed on his incoming hand and shattered his hand, but it was not intentional, he was just throwing an elbow.

It would be like saying when you do a dual gun fight, just shoot the bullet coming at you with your own bullet.

 

[Mr Mojo Lane]

Tim Cartmell is highly respected in the BJJ community and has speaks highly of Bagua and uses it along with other chinese arts for his stand up grappling to compliment his BJJs ground work. If he sees something worthwhile in the art to the point of spending time in china learning it i think its naive to throw the style out as fantasy fu.

Wasn't it the opposite way around? I think he was a CMA practitioner who decided he needed to add BJJ

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

Wasn't it the opposite way around? I think he was a CMA practitioner who decided he needed to add BJJ

yeah I'm not sure when he did bagua. He did san soo first i think.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Wasn't it the opposite way around? I think he was a CMA practitioner who decided he needed to add BJJ

not sure need to go back and read up on his history

 

[Mr Mojo Lane]

not sure need to go back and read up on his history

I got one of his stand up grappling DVDs and it was basically Gracie Jiu-Jitsu self defense. I thought he might have had some new ideas, concepts, or whatever to blend the various arts, but no, it was just Gracie self defense.

 

[Universal Kombat]

Go find Tims pan am matches he used the grappling from the chinese styles when standing. the guy in the 5th video also has a sanda team that competes as well as there being other small groups of sanda bagua guys on youtube.

I dunno whats to scoff at i showed you videos where they are breaking down the forms directly and showing throws and arm drags you see in other wrestling styles as well as stepping patterns common in boxing/kickboxing. It says youre a sanda guy as well on your profile so its odd you seem skeptical and takedowns and footwork you see commonly in the sport.



and if you say it looks like kickboxing and doesnt count then

That video you showed me looked like extremely low level striking and grappling. I've yet to see all the cool steven seagal moves work in a video.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

That video you showed me looked like extremely low level striking and grappling. I've yet to see all the cool steven seagal moves work in a video.

I didnt show you any Seven Seagal moves. i showed you grappling you commonly see in Sanda and Chinese wrestling that are in Bagua.

As i said how can someone who lists Sanda as an art they studied not see that these are common throws you find in the sport? Not a single throw or get behind i posted isnt found any any SJ/Sanda highlight that can be found on youtube. Either you are being obtuse or too prideful to acknowledge your views are incorrect on what the style discussed in the OP entails.

Its okay its only sherdog, You don;t have to impress people here by trying to be right all the time sport.

Edit: Never mind I found your youtube channel. Jay'sus fucking christ.

 

[Universal Kombat]

I didnt show you any Seven Seagal moves. i showed you grappling you commonly see in Sanda and Chinese wrestling that are in Bagua.

As i said how can someone who lists Sanda as an art they studied not see that these are common throws you find in the sport? Not a single throw or get behind i posted isnt found any any SJ/Sanda highlight that can be found on youtube. Either you are being obtuse or too prideful to acknowledge your views are incorrect on what the style discussed in the OP entails.

Its okay its only sherdog, You don;t have to impress people here by trying to be right all the time sport.

Edit: Never mind I found your youtube channel. Jay'sus fucking christ.

In the ORIGINAL video, it showed trips and throws that do not work, they're done in the (edit **LEAST** ) effective way possible. What I'm trying to get at, is that showing me a video of a guy doing a double leg incorrectly, and me saying that the video is garbage, doesn't mean that I think double legs do not work. How's that so hard to comprehend? I'm not saying these moves do not work. Also, stop being a little bitch and arguing like a woman, you got frustrated and are now trying to make it about me, feel free to do so but you're already trying to avoid the conversation.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

In the ORIGINAL video, it showed trips and throws that do not work,

Yes and it may be hard for you grasp but I'm not the OP. I posted videos of the style being used in a sensible manner and you're still continued to prattle on in broad sweeping generalizations about CMA. This is like the shertard 101 guide to the stand up forum. Disparage anything but MT in an attempt to pass yourself off as "knowledgeable"

Even throws in the OP weren't too bad. It was the entries into them that weren't particularly practical

How's that so hard to comprehend? I'm not saying these moves do not work

Uh......... yeah you did. Even towards what I posted. Look, at this point not only is it clear you're dwelling in outerspace so I'm gonna bow out. Have fun self training in your backyard and pretending to be a "Head trainer."

 

[Universal Kombat]

Yes and it may be hard for you grasp but I'm not the OP. I posted videos of the style being used in a sensible manner and you're still continued to prattle on in broad sweeping generalizations about CMA. This is like the shertard 101 guide to the stand up forum. Disparage anything but MT in an attempt to pass yourself off as "knowledgeable"

Even throws in the OP weren't too bad. It was the entries into them that weren't particularly practical



Uh......... yeah you did. Even towards what I posted. Look, at this point not only is it clear you're dwelling in outerspace so I'm gonna bow out. Have fun self training in your backyard and pretending to be a "Head trainer."

tok

See, you argue like a female, not only are you emotionally charged, and getting personal (very feminine of you) but, you're putting words in my mouth. I don't dislike TMA or even CMA, I dislike the stuff that doesn't work. The whole reason I took Sanda, is because it focused on what works, they wanted to create a style which would actually work, so they took what works, abandoned what didn't, and also took heavily from other arts.

On the other hand, some of the stuff you showed me, just doesn't work, you linked me to videos of the stuff that DOES work, such as the takedowns, trips, and sweeps, but a lot of the other stuff you also showed me doesn't work. Also, I never once considered myself some hot shot trainer, just you attacking me behind a keyboard like a girl on a personal level because you get frustrated easily like a child. Sherdog 101 right?

 

[a guy]

See, you argue like a female

See, you argue like a neckbeard

 

[panamaican]

You already know what we think. Just let it go buddy, I also wanted all that stuff to be true and work, but Chinese movies are just still movies.

The thing is they said that about "spinning shit" until it was landed. When I first started on this forum, front snap kicks were considered bs now we see a few thrown regularly every event. The last decade or so of MMA has gradually shown us that more things work than we used to assume. They're still low percentage stuff vs. high percentage stuff but I don't truly write off anything that doesn't violate the rule set, like small digit manipulation.

 

[ARIZE]

Except for punching in MT...

 

[Universal Kombat]

See, you argue like a neckbeard

I'll dumb it down for you next time bb

 

[CFGroup]

Re building my core strength back from hip surgery with QiGong standing postures, Ba Gua coiling drills, Chen Tai Chi form and then light shadow boxing and Kickboxing footwork drills.

Those arts are great for rehab and light restorative post tourney or camp off days. That day when you all suffer your first major injury who have the metal to continue at a high level will finally get it.
Then you'll get the importance of a non impactive physical program like Yoga, but with usable mechanics for combat sports to work back to competitive training. Even now physical therapy you'd get from modern medicine has incorporated many aspects of internal arts mechanics. I was surprised at how many exercises I was given that were basic adaptations of stuff I already know.


Those internal arts are for relaxed conditioning not smacking people around in their modern form. If you don't train sparring it's obvious you won't be able to keep up with skilled competitors.

Here's some Nick Osipczek UFC highlights.


This form is similar but much shorter than the one I'm rebuilding and doesn't have any kicks which is part of rehabbing my base side. I practice the form slow but alternating both sides like the clip but double, then medium at a normal breathing pace and then at a fast anaerobic pace both sides.

 

[Paradigm]

Tim Cartmell is highly respected in the BJJ community and has speaks highly of Bagua and uses it along with other chinese arts for his stand up grappling to compliment his BJJs ground work. If he sees something worthwhile in the art to the point of spending time in china learning it i think its naive to throw the style out as fantasy fu.

Dan Hardy is highly respected in the MMA community and spent time in China as a teenager with some Shaolin monks.

How much of his style is a result of that?

Don't forget about Big Country and his kung fu background...

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Dan Hardy is highly respected in the MMA community and spent time in China as a teenager with some Shaolin monks.

How much of his style is a result of that?

Don't forget about Big Country and his kung fu background...

the shaolin monks are government sponsored circus performers and big countrys kung fu school is of a dubious baclground so....