Wing Chun Jab: Bottom Knuckles?

[MilitantWorker]

Whaddup..

I saw some guys doing Wing Chun in the park and I asked them to teach me the jab and I have a question:

I completely understand the punch (from how they showed me, they were from Canton) except one thing. I'm much less telegraphic when I don't turn my elbows out, and they told me your fist should point down and at the end point up...yet when I hit my punching bag my bottom knuckles are the ones making contact first: which is a martial arts no-no I thought?

Help?

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Whaddup..

I saw some guys doing Wing Chun in the park and I asked them to teach me the jab and I have a question:

I completely understand the punch (from how they showed me, they were from Canton) except one thing. I'm much less telegraphic when I don't turn my elbows out, and they told me your fist should point down and at the end point up...yet when I hit my punching bag my bottom knuckles are the ones making contact first: which is a martial arts no-no I thought?

Help?

wc and jkd hit with the last three

most styles hit with the first two but theres nothing wrong with hitting with the last three

 

[DefangTheSnake]

we like to hit with the last three knuckles because it is more of a hammering action instead of a pushing, it is very hard to chain punch with speed if you are extending your arm all the way to make contact with the top 2 knuckles. You can snap punches out and back much more quickly with this.

I also like to feign by moving my arm slightly to the right or left, elbow first to indicate a horizontal punch coming from the side, the I snap out a quick jab before they notice that your fist is 3/4 of the way to their face/throat.

 

[mjw1]

Elbow in position bottom 3 knuckles work quite well.....

 

[SAAMAG]

Yes, the bottom three knuckles are the contact patch in the WCK straight punch. The reason why it's generally taught as a no-no in other systems has to do with the anatomy of the punch and where the structural reinforcement is behind the punch.

Keep in mind as well that the vertical fist position is the favored position of bareknuckle boxing as well as some MMA fighters like Bas Rutten. It's not exclusive to wing chun by any means.

But with the WCK punch, you want to hit not like a jab, but more like you're trying to punch through the target penetrating into the deep tissue, keeping in mind that you're hitting their body with YOUR BODY.

 

[MilitantWorker]

Yes, the bottom three knuckles are the contact patch in the WCK straight punch. The reason why it's generally taught as a no-no in other systems has to do with the anatomy of the punch and where the structural reinforcement is behind the punch.

Keep in mind as well that the vertical fist position is the favored position of bareknuckle boxing as well as some MMA fighters like Bas Rutten. It's not exclusive to wing chun by any means.

But with the WCK punch, you want to hit not like a jab, but more like you're trying to punch through the target penetrating into the deep tissue, keeping in mind that you're hitting their body with YOUR BODY.

Thank you for being scientific and a materialist.

I didn't know that.

 

[Nak Muay Farang]

bottom three, definetly, other your wrist is on a wrong angle and your wrist just gets fucked.

 

[MilitantWorker]

bottom three, definetly, other your wrist is on a wrong angle and your wrist just gets fucked.

haha you guys are basically American down there aren't you? sounds like something I might say...:redface:

 

[mjw1]

And yes the vertical fist isn't exclusive to WC my boxing coach learned from Tony Zale who taught him boxing with a vertical fist (probablly why I use both together)

Also when I did Karate many moons ago although they mostly turned the punch over they also taught the vertical fist but in Karate they used the top 2 knuckles....

Vulkan explains this well with the structure in WC the arm and fist is the nail and the body is the hammer so to speak thus why whe structure and elbow in plus center line principles of WC and alignment to the bottome 3 knuckles using tricept and structure using a slight upward driving motion so to speak and not the shoulders like in karate.

 

[barnowl]

Whaddup..

I saw some guys doing Wing Chun in the park and I asked them to teach me the jab and I have a question:

I completely understand the punch (from how they showed me, they were from Canton) except one thing. I'm much less telegraphic when I don't turn my elbows out, and they told me your fist should point down and at the end point up...yet when I hit my punching bag my bottom knuckles are the ones making contact first: which is a martial arts no-no I thought?

Help?

Bare knuckle boxing this is a typical strike surface. Also taught in some styles of MT. I was taught this way, but I was also taught how to use and tie the rope fists, so it was an older method I was trained in.

 

[lukewall]

Bare knuckle boxing this is a typical strike surface. Also taught in some styles of MT. I was taught this way, but I was also taught how to use and tie the rope fists, so it was an older method I was trained in.

Seems counterintuitive to use the last 3 knuckles in bareknuckle fighting as the bones around the pinky are the easiest to break, hence the term"boxers fracture". What is the logic behind hitting with the last 3 knuckles in bareknuckle fights?

 

[barnowl]

Seems counterintuitive to use the last 3 knuckles in bareknuckle fighting as the bones around the pinky are the easiest to break, hence the term"boxers fracture". What is the logic behind hitting with the last 3 knuckles in bareknuckle fights?

Power lines. Jack Dempsey gives the best explanation of it in his book on boxing. Short version is that the 3rd knuckle of the hand gives the best line up for power transmission through the arm structure for punching. It is a natural arm alignment also. Jack also points out you need to aim with the third knuckle so that the impact is spread over the secon third and last knuckle to not break the hand.

Top 2 knuckles are stronger and less like to break, but you have to train a non-natural alignment of the hand to get good power that way.

 

[mjw1]

Power lines. Jack Dempsey gives the best explanation of it in his book on boxing. Short version is that the 3rd knuckle of the hand gives the best line up for power transmission through the arm structure for punching. It is a natural arm alignment also. Jack also points out you need to aim with the third knuckle so that the impact is spread over the secon third and last knuckle to not break the hand.

Top 2 knuckles are stronger and less like to break, but you have to train a non-natural alignment of the hand to get good power that way.

Good one & yes!

 

[Adnan Adil]

Power lines. Jack Dempsey gives the best explanation of it in his book on boxing. Short version is that the 3rd knuckle of the hand gives the best line up for power transmission through the arm structure for punching. It is a natural arm alignment also. Jack also points out you need to aim with the third knuckle so that the impact is spread over the secon third and last knuckle to not break the hand.

Top 2 knuckles are stronger and less like to break, but you have to train a non-natural alignment of the hand to get good power that way.

Using the three knuckles isn't harder, because of the alignment? I mean that it seems very hard, if not impossible to hit at once with all the 3 knuckles.

 

[listrahtes]

Using the three knuckles isn't harder, because of the alignment? I mean that it seems very hard, if not impossible to hit at once with all the 3 knuckles.

You are not meant to point with all three. Just the third one and the rest follows. I tried it and really like it with boxing gloves and a vertical punch but my coach is a friend of 1+2 knuckles.

The Dempsey book was a very pleasent surprise when I bought it some weeks ago. Expected nothing and its a fantastic read.

 

[Krack]

Power lines. Jack Dempsey gives the best explanation of it in his book on boxing. Short version is that the 3rd knuckle of the hand gives the best line up for power transmission through the arm structure for punching. It is a natural arm alignment also. Jack also points out you need to aim with the third knuckle so that the impact is spread over the secon third and last knuckle to not break the hand.

Top 2 knuckles are stronger and less like to break, but you have to train a non-natural alignment of the hand to get good power that way.

Exactly. Jack Dempsey.
With some conditioning, its not a problem to have the impact spread over 3 smaller knuckles/joints vs 2 bigger knuckles/joints. Real problem is if you have shitty alignment of the last two knuckles from trying too hard to make a bad fist your whole life. Then the force vectors are all over the place and your bones won't direct the force along your bones like a proper truss support and cause localized stress/fracture. Then your just better off using the two big ones.

 

[Adnan Adil]

You are not meant to point with all three. Just the third one and the rest follows. I tried it and really like it with boxing gloves and a vertical punch but my coach is a friend of 1+2 knuckles.

The Dempsey book was a very pleasent surprise when I bought it some weeks ago. Expected nothing and its a fantastic read.

Ok, now that is explaining a lot. First I thought that it depends from the size and shape of the hands of different people which type of punches are more suitable, but now I will know. And still I think that there are different punches- some are better for the knuckles and others for the wrists.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

So ving tsun got something right?

 

[AtlSteel]

Oh boy. Here we go with the top two/bottom three argument again..

 

[shincheckin]

when I fight, Im trying to hit the guy, im reallly not concerned about what knuckle I hit him with, as long as I hit him.