Would PRIDE have gone out of business if the UFC hadn't been around?

[Cantalope]

Japan isn't into MMA as much as the US is either. Unless it's new years when they want to watch Cro Cop annihilate a high school judo instructor.

 

[Goatenstein]

Yakuza scandal brought down Pride plan and simple

Giving the UFC credit is just fanboy shit. You are telling the truth. MMA peaked in 2003.

 

[aichokyu]

If there hadn't been a UFC competing with PRIDE back in the day, would PRIDE have still folded? The UFC had the North American market covered and PRIDE had the Asian markets covered. So without a UFC the north american mma fans would've had to watch PRIDE instead, and that would have increased PRIDE's profits. I know us hardcores usually watched both orgs back then, but I imagine with no UFC, PRIDE still would have made more money. The word of mouth that helped the UFC's popularity boom in North America, would've been word of mouth about PRIDE instead.

And I know one of the main reasons stated for PRIDE's demise was the Yakuza scandal, and that supposedly caused them to lose their tv deal. But I don't know a lot about that or what all happened behind the scenes with that. Or even if Zuffa had some sort of hand in that. Who knows? Pride held a couple cards in Vegas which weren't very successful. But with no UFC around, would those American cards have been more successful? Would there have been more American cards? Could they have secured an American tv deal once they lost their Japanese tv deal?


I figure many of you are more knowledgeable about the intricacies and moving parts that all contributed to the demise of PRIDE than I am. So I ask you, if there was no UFC around in those days, do you think PRIDE would still have closed it's doors? Or would they still be around today?

UFC had nothing to do with Pride going down

 

[cooks1]

I think the tv deals involved also meant yakuza involvement. I don't think there was any possible way. It wassnt legitimate but it sure was a fun ride.

Precisely this. Too many hands in the cookie jar for it to survive long term.

 

[aichokyu]

great gif, username, and av, what can I say


EDIT : feo messi ? it's true he's not good looking but is it in a fan way or a diss?

 

[cooks1]

Giving the UFC credit is just fanboy shit. You are telling the truth. MMA peaked in 2003.

You are going to need to define 'peak' for me. You must be going by some metric other then revenue or profit. Because by those metrics, MMA peaked in 2017.

 

[cooks1]

If by 'lost in time' you mean available on UFC fight pass, then you are correct sir.

 

[nhbfan8080]

Pride would've still been in trouble because there weren't many decent up and coming Japanese fighters. The top local talent were getting old and shopworn. I think ratings were already falling and Fuji tv took full advantage of the Yakuza scandal to cancel its contract with DSE.

 

[tru3f4n]

I think youre right but forget that the American market outweighs the smaller countries by far. We have cards that start at 4 in the morning and I would kind of resent paying for a ppv that's pre recorded nowadays with the amount of social media and mainstream media out to ruin the result for me. I know it doesn't seem that long ago but times have really changed when it comes to the ability of communication.

They're Japanese based why would they want to push their way into a market where even the UFC is having a hard time selling PPV events and getting TV views without having someone like Conor fighting? As for same day tape delays and social media it was bs back then to that's why most the diehards stayed up to watch the streams or avoided MMA websites. Or like most sherdog members signup on Subfighter or K-1Fans to leech the Japanese rips a couple hours after the event.

 

[Philtard]

They're Japanese based why would they want to push their way into a market where even the UFC is having a hard time selling PPV events and getting TV views without having someone like Conor fighting? As for same day tape delays and social media it was bs back then to that's why most the diehards stayed up to watch the streams or avoided MMA websites. Or like most sherdog members signup on Subfighter or K-1Fans to leech the Japanese rips a couple hours after the event.

Because this was a hypothetical question? I think that's the answer..

That's exactly what I did. I agree with you.

 

[cyrusthevyrus]

Yes but DREAM could have picked up the pieces and stayed alive

no when you dont have financial support

 

[kila2]

great gif, username, and av, what can I say

your av still much better, if I may interrupt.

 

[tru3f4n]

Japan isn't into MMA as much as the US is either. Unless it's new years when they want to watch Cro Cop annihilate a high school judo instructor.

JMMA was bigger then US MMA and not just for Shockwave, Dynamite, or Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye.

 

[IDGETKTFO]

I guarantee guys like shogun, overeem, cro cop, wandy....ect.. would all be retired or completely punch drunk by now.

 

[rawknob]

things that killed pride:
1) Yakuza deal
2) High fighter pay
3) High event production cost

Yeah, it was great they paid fighters a better worth than the UFC, but when you throw that in with their production and then they lose out on their main financial backing, the yakuza, then it was just over.

 

[eiyuu]

things that killed pride:
1) Yakuza deal
2) High fighter pay
3) High event production cost

Yeah, it was great they paid fighters a better worth than the UFC, but when you throw that in with their production and then they lose out on their main financial backing, the yakuza, then it was just over.

Fighter pay wasn't all that better in PRIDE

PRIDE AND GLORY
Inoue: I think I got $80,000 for the Kerr fight. They paid Sakuraba peanuts. Pride didn’t pay Sakuraba well because Takada was in charge of him. He was taking all the money. Pride would pay Takada Dojo. Sakuraba got a salary from Takada Dojo. … That’s why they ended up having a falling-out. They want nothing to do with each other now.

Gary Goodridge: Royce, Wanderlei [Silva], Sakuraba -- once you’re in the upper echelon, that’s the only time you can get what you want. Other than that, you have to play their games.

Mezger: Basically, you were led to believe in a very strong way that when the contract negotiations came up, there was a good chance you wouldn’t be part of it if you refused fights.

Inoue: I believe Pride was the type of association that could take what they could get. It wasn’t an association where they treated all the fighters fairly. I was treated very differently in Pride because I was needed. I was popular in Japan. They knew I didn’t need them. They played hardball with people that needed them. Igor Vovchanchyn made peanuts -- $10,000. They’d threaten Mark Kerr, go down to where Kerr was training and make sure he was ready. Pretty much bully him around.

Kerr: The hardest thing in the world about working for a Japanese company is that you don’t know what rules you broke until you broke them. The one time I had elbow surgery, I took my own money and paid for my ticket over to Japan, paid for my hotel room, went into the ring -- this is when I was supposed to fight Enson in Nagoya -- and I let the stitches stay in my arm about a week past the point they were supposed to come out. That was so I could take off my shirt and literally show them, yes, I actually had surgery. That was the length you had to go to for the Japanese.

There was also an interview with Frank Shamrock on Eddie Goldman's "No Holds Barred" internet radio show way back when and he was asked about why he didn't fight in PRIDE after getting in the ring after one of Sakuraba's fights (back in the single digit PRIDE events). He said, "They offered me peanuts to fight Sakuraba. I don't fight for peanuts."

 

[eiyuu]

And here's the full payout for Pride 33:

Main Event Fighters

-Wanderlei Silva: $150,000 (28th fight in Pride; lost to Dan Henderson in main event)

-Dan Henderson: $50,000 (18th fight in Pride; defeated Wanderlei Silva in main event)

Main Card Fighters

-Mauricio “Shogun” Rua: $50,000 (13th fight in Pride; defeated Alistair Overeem)

-Takanori Gomi: $20,000 (15th fight in Pride; lost to Nick Diaz)

-Antonio Rogerio Nogueira: $20,000 (10th fight in Pride; lost to Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou)

-Nick Diaz: $15,000 (1st fight in Pride; defeated Takanori Gomi)

-Joachim Hansen: $15,000 (6th fight in Pride; defeated Jason Ireland)

-Hayato Sakurai: $10,000 (11th fight in Pride; defeated Mac Danzig)

-Frank Trigg: $10,000 (2nd fight in Pride; defeated Kazuo Misaki)

-Kazuo Misaki: $10,000 (8th fight in Pride; lost to Frank Trigg)

-Sergei Kharitonov: $10,000 (11th fight in Pride; defeated Mike Russow)

-Alistair Overeem: $10,000 (14th fight in Pride; lost to Mauricio “Shogun” Rua)

-Travis Wiuff: $10,000 (1st fight in Pride; lost to James Lee)

-Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou: $10,000 (1st fight in Pride; defeated Antonio Rogerio Nogueira)

-Mac Danzig: $10,000 (1st fight in Pride; lost to Hayato Sakurai)

-Jason Ireland: $10,000 (1st fight in Pride; lost to Joachim Hansen)

-Mike Russow: $10,000 (1st fight in Pride; lost to Sergei Kharitonov)

-James Lee: $10,000 (1st fight in Pride; defeated Travis Wiuff)

Disclosed Fighter Payroll: $430,000

SOURCE: MMAWeekly.com