WOW 2020 Democrat candidates terrible -Trump's gunna win again :( + random Health Care fights inside

[SRN]

It's common in Canada for wait times for non-urgent (read: life not in danger) imaging studies to be up to a year, sometimes more. So, as a Canadian, he isn't making up bullshit. Wait times are a big issue.

Of course, Canada is far from the best single payer system.

What country do you live in?

It's funny how some people in this thread can't accept the truth about Canadian health care system. It's almost like they take it personally, like it's ruining their fantasy or something. I wish it was good, I wish I had very little to complain about it but unfortunately that's not the case.

 

[HIMBOB]

It's true. A woman told me that last week. They went to Canada for a job and preaching. She told me they had to wait 6 months for their daughter to get an mri.

Was she a citizen?

 

[VivaRevolution]

Mexicans?

Now that's fucking funny right there.

 

[Ripskater]

Was she a citizen?

She's a US citizen, and her husband and 3 kids, and they moved away for a job and did some preaching up there for several years.

 

[HIMBOB]

Can confirm as this happened to me as well. Unless I go to Quebec and pay out of pocket I usually wait a long time for that kind of exam. The system is falling, it's hard enough to get a doctor's appointment. And you better pray it's a good doctor!

Are you rural?

Can you say what your average wait time is?
Is it 6 months?
Have you ever waited 6 months?

 

[HIMBOB]

She's a US citizen, and her husband and 3 kids, and they moved away for a job and did some preaching up there for several years.

It would be nice if the system could cover foreigners medical expenses, but I think expecting free and quick medical treatment for non citizens on the tax payer dollar is unrealistic.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Look it this I mean ... WTF

View attachment 421277


Look at the previous positions!! Conspiracy theorist?

Is this a joke?????

I cant see the file it says its restricted what kind of sorsery is this

 

[Ripskater]

It would be nice if the system could cover foreigners medical expenses, but I think expecting free and quick medical treatment for non citizens on the tax payer dollar is unrealistic.

Well her husband was working there. Getting paid and getting taxed I'm sure. My guess is they were there for 5 years

 

[ShinkanPo]

No, you don't. I live in a country with socialized health care. That's just straight up BS.

Was he scheduled for an MRI?

 

[Pseudo Sane]

Without private insurance in Canada, you wait way less time for that non-urgent imaging study than someone without private insurance in the US does. How long do you wait for that non-urgent imaging study if you have supplementary private insurance though?

You can pay for it out of pocket and get one within a matter of days or weeks.

I am not an expert in medical insurance policies, but I don't think many (if any) policies in my province cover non-urgent imaging. Most policies (at least all the ones I have ever had through an employer) carry an exclusion for treatment you can receive under the provincial plan. Typically private medical plans in Canada cover drug costs, dental work, vision, and various 'extra' treatments (chiro, physio, counselling, etc). All primary care is expected to be provided through the provincial health care systems. There is a certain amount of medical tourism, often to India, to speed up the wait time for various surgeries. Again, this is just my personal experience; I have not researched the issue in depth, so I am happy to be corrected by a more knowledgeable party.

The other issue with Canada is that we have a chronic GP shortage, but that is hardly unique to us.

Canada is a bit peculiar in that we don't have a full parallel private healthcare system (although certain services are available voluntarily, often contrary to the letter of the law).

Honestly though, other than proximity, there isn't much reason for Americans to focus on the Canadian system. We are not the best single-payer system in the world by a long shot.

 

[aitkenmike]

I don't know anything about that honestly.

I’m shocked, shocked I say!

 

[HIMBOB]

??? It would lower taxes. America pays the second most government money on healthcare per capita in the world. Every country but Sweden with a universal healthcare system spends less government money on it than America spends on whatever the fuck we're spending it on. And any citizen in those countries can buy supplemental private insurance, just like we buy private insurance in America, if they want more medical care than the public option.

We could use the savings from universal healthcare to pay down the debt or make our military stronger. I personally champion universal healthcare as a way to strengthen our military. In addition, the economic growth from healthy employees, lower administrative costs, and companies not having to pay for everyone's insurance plan would lower our debt: GDP ratio by increasing the GDP. It's good for America all around.

Actually it would lower GDP but increase efficiency/productivity.

GDP is a proxy, inncreases are usually good but not always.
For example natural disasters are great for GDP growth because you build heaps fixing them. But really it just gets you back to square 1, so a big hit to productivity.

 

[VivaRevolution]

You can pay for it out of pocket and get one within a matter of days or weeks.

I am not an expert in medical insurance policies, but I don't think many (if any) policies in my province cover non-urgent imaging. Most policies (at least all the ones I have ever had through an employer) carry an exclusion for treatment you can receive under the provincial plan. Typically private medical plans in Canada cover drug costs, dental work, vision, and various 'extra' treatments (chiro, physio, counselling, etc). All primary care is expected to be provided through the provincial health care systems. There is a certain amount of medical tourism, often to India, to speed up the wait time for various surgeries. Again, this is just my personal experience; I have not researched the issue in depth, so I am happy to be corrected by a more knowledgeable party.

The other issue with Canada is that we have a chronic GP shortage, but that is hardly unique to us.

Canada is a bit peculiar in that we don't have a full parallel private healthcare system (although certain services are available voluntarily, often contrary to the letter of the law).

Honestly though, other than proximity, there isn't much reason for Americans to focus on the Canadian system. We are not the best single-payer system in the world by a long shot.

You guys pay 10% GDP like every other country who has Universal Health Care. We pay 17% GDP. In 1980 we paid 10 % GDP.

In 40 years time, health Care cost increases in the US has almost doubled the rate of inflation.

Whatever shortfalls the Canadian system has, it isn't going to crash your economy like the US system is going to do.

 

[SRN]

Are you rural?

Can you say what your average wait time is?
Is it 6 months?
Have you ever waited 6 months?

I live in Ottawa, before that in Toronto. I'm an active guy, kinda accident prone and I have epilepsy so I've seen a lot of hospitals, X rays, MRI and CT Scans machines lol . I would say the average wait time is about 4 months. Last time I needed a MRI was 6 months so I cancelled my appointment and went to a private clinic in Quebec. I was able to do it in two days. I've done that in past as well. I'm lucky to be able to afford it! Xrays and things like ultrasound are much faster but waiting for an appointment with a specialist has always been a frustrating experience too.

It would be nice if the system could cover foreigners medical expenses, but I think expecting free and quick medical treatment for non citizens on the tax payer dollar is unrealistic.

It's not free for foreigners. Tourists, foreigners workers, international students and so on use the exact same service, enter the same waiting lists but pay for absolutely everything upfront. And trust me, it's a lot of money! That's why it's recommended to have a good insurance that cover medical expenses otherwise you're fucked!

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

my previous family out of pocket was 3k but under Obamacare it's nearly 10k

Neither Obamacare nor what you had before was single-payer.

 

[Pseudo Sane]

You guys pay 10% GDP like every other country who has Universal Health Care. We pay 17% GDP. In 1980 we paid 10 % GDP.

In 40 years time, health Care cost increases in the US has almost doubled the rate of inflation.

Whatever shortfalls the Canadian system has, it isn't going to crash your economy like the US system is going to do.

If it doesn't crash the economy, it will be because we ration healthcare. And rising healthcare costs are a concern everywhere, not just the USA. We are just a few years behind, that's all.

Look, healthcare is super expensive, and there are legitimate tradeoffs between systems. I think the current American system is actively bad; it has perverse incentives and manages to combine the bureaucracy of a single-payer system with the expense of a private one. I think that healthcare is very poorly suited to being privately insured.

So yeah, I support single payer in Canada, for all of its flaws and imperfections, which are multitudinous. I would prefer if we had a proper parallel private system, but a lot of people get their noses out of joint about being egalitarian, so everyone is stuck with the same level of care. Whatever. I'll work with the system as it exists.

What I don't think is that:

1) Americans will like or accept their quality of healthcare being reduced, which it will if the system attempts to control costs;
2) Doctors and nurses will accept taking a massive pay cut (they are pretty good at lobbying, after all);
3) Single payer will result in any savings. It will, if anything, blow up the system sooner, because voters will do what voters in every country do; vote for the goodies and vote against paying for them; and
4) That you can cap drug prices without disincentivizing drug research.

So if single payer happens, which I doubt, be aware that problems of access to treatment and affordability will merely shift location, not disappear. The distinction is important.

But looking a tradeoffs is hard and scary and grown-up work, so lets all go back to calling each other names on the internet.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

We did just reform it few years ago under Obama.

You didnt go far enough.

 

[HIMBOB]

It's common in Canada for wait times for non-urgent (read: life not in danger) imaging studies to be up to a year, sometimes more. So, as a Canadian, he isn't making up bullshit. Wait times are a big issue.

Of course, Canada is far from the best single payer system.

What country do you live in?

Australia.

 

[HIMBOB]

She's a US citizen, and her husband and 3 kids, and they moved away for a job and did some preaching up there for several years.

Well I suppose the telling question is did she go back to the states to get it done?

 

[VivaRevolution]

If it doesn't crash the economy, it will be because we ration healthcare. And rising healthcare costs are a concern everywhere, not just the USA. We are just a few years behind, that's all.

Look, healthcare is super expensive, and there are legitimate tradeoffs between systems. I think the current American system is actively bad; it has perverse incentives and manages to combine the bureaucracy of a single-payer system with the expense of a private one. I think that healthcare is very poorly suited to being privately insured.

So yeah, I support single payer in Canada, for all of its flaws and imperfections, which are multitudinous. I would prefer if we had a proper parallel private system, but a lot of people get their noses out of joint about being egalitarian, so everyone is stuck with the same level of care. Whatever. I'll work with the system as it exists.

What I don't think is that:

1) Americans will like or accept their quality of healthcare being reduced, which it will if the system attempts to control costs;
2) Doctors and nurses will accept taking a massive pay cut (they are pretty good at lobbying, after all);
3) Single payer will result in any savings. It will, if anything, blow up the system sooner, because voters will do what voters in every country do; vote for the goodies and vote against paying for them; and
4) That you can cap drug prices without disincentivizing drug research.

So if single payer happens, which I doubt, be aware that problems of access to treatment and affordability will merely shift location, not disappear. The distinction is important.

But looking a tradeoffs is hard and scary and grown-up work, so lets all go back to calling each other names on the internet.

Actually, Canada paid 10% of GDP in 1980, and they pay 10% of GDP today. This is a key point. Our private system worked until 1980. It is deregulation that has driven prices in the US to almost double the rate of inflation.

We already ration HC in the US. It takes weeks to get an MRI done in the US as well. Potential life saving treatments are denied by HC insurance all the time in the US. Surgeries take months to schedule in the US. Nurses now provide tonnes of care doctor's used to provide. We kick mom's out of hospitals less than 24 hours after having a baby. I could just keep going.

The fact is that for every failure Universal HC has, our private system fails just as badly, and we are paying almost twice as much.