You should have to work at walmart, without a college degree.

VivaRevolution

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When I hear people say that if you work hard, and make good decisions, you will be successful, what I hear, is them saying you should work at Wal-Mart if you don't go to college.

See, I don't want to take things from others more successful, what I want is for the average person, with an average high school diploma, is given the opportunity to have a middle class life style.

Factory jobs in this country used to suck. They paid shit wages, and people died all the time at work. Then we had a labor revolution, where we took shit paying unsafe jobs, and forced employers through law to offer middle class wages, and safe work conditions.

When I was 16, in 1996 I was a high school drop out. I was able to find a job as a machinist grunt. The worked sucked, long hours, shit pay, but if I would have stuck with it, in 6 years I would have been making a middle class wage. Those opportunities were few and far between in 1996 compared to 1966, and they are almost non-existent today.

Most of us seem to agree that the American middle class is disappearing, and I don't think any tax plan, or regulation is going to fix that.

We need another labor revolution in this country. We don't need to empower the old corrupt unions, we need to organize, and create a new union structure, in the spirit of Jefferson's quote, of let there never be 20 years without a revolution such as this. Let us start fresh, where systems are uncorrupted and can actually work.

We need a national union. 1 union for all workers, to match the power of the bohemeths of the corporate, and government bodies.

If we have a need for a national guard, national Social Security, national Medicare, then we have a need for a national Union, with the collective bargaining power of every US worker that chooses to join.

Discuss......
 
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There is no guarantee that hard work will lead to success, but it increase your odds of moving up the social ladder. I know people that worked two jobs their entire lives that barely able to support their families. Similiarly, success is not exclusively tied to hard work, as you can be the laziest mofo on earth but can live comfortably through inheritance from your rich parents. We need to get rid of the notion that poor = lazy and rich = hard working.

As far as unions go, never had a pleasant experience with any of them both as a member or on the management side. Also, some unions are very tangled up with organized crime. In my city for example, the Hells Angels are known to belong to the dockworker's union. Essentially they're free to smuggle shit in and out of the country, and it's been going on for years.
 
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I don't understand your thread title.

You don't think people without a college degree can work hard and become successful?

What about trade schools, does that count as college in your eyes?

You want everyone given the same opportunities regardless of the knowledge or skills?
 
Did I miss something? Did skilled labor jobs go away? I doubt it.
 
I’d say that people working at wal-mart and making good decisions is an oxymoron.

You’re an adult working at wal mart because you probably make bad decisions.
 
Did I miss something? Did skilled labor jobs go away? I doubt it.

No, not at all, but we need a whole lot more of them, or to turn bad jobs into middle class jobs, if we want to restore our middle class, and sustain actual consumption based growth instead of speculation driven bubbles.
 
I’d say that people working at wal-mart and making good decisions is an oxymoron.

You’re an adult working at wal mart because you probably make bad decisions.

I have a relative working at Target who has an accounting degree, and 30 years of good work history.

Looked for 1 1/2 years, before taking the target job. She is almost legally deaf, and gets let go from jobs because of the difficulty it causes.

I was shocked when she got a job as a clerk at the county police station, and they actually stated that they let her go because she couldn't hear the buzzars for the door.

I was like, isn't that illegal?

Tried to get her to pursue legal remedies, but she is afraid to get blacklisted.
 
When I hear people say that if you work hard, and make good decisions, you will be successful, what I hear is them saying you should work at Wal-Mart if you don't go to college.

See, I don't want to take things from others more successful, what I want is for the average person, with an average high school diploma, is given the opportunity to have a middle class life style.

Factory jobs in this country used to suck. They paid shit wages, and people died all the time at work. Then we had a labor revolution, where we took shit paying unsafe jobs, and forced employers through law to offer middle class wages, and safe work conditions.

When I was 16, in 1996 I was a high school drop out. I was able to find a job as a machinist grunt. The worked sucked, long hours, shit pay, but if I would have stuck with it, in 6 years I would have been making a middle class wage. Those opportunities were few and far between in 1996 compared to 1966, and they are almost non-existent today.

Most of us seem to agree that the American middle class is disappearing, and I don't think any tax plan, or regulation is going to fix that.

We need another labor revolution in this country. We don't need to empower the old corrupt unions, we need to organize, and create a new union structure, in the spirit of Jefferson's quote, of let there never be 20 years without a revolution such as this. Let us start fresh, where systems are uncorrupted and can actually work.

We need a national union. 1 union for all workers, to match the power of the bohemeths of the corporate, and government bodies.

If we have a need for a national guard, national Social Security, national Medicare, then we have a need for a national Union, with the collective bargaining power of every US worker that chooses to join.

Discuss......
What you're saying is that without doing anything, or inheriting any risk, or developing any skills, or taking initiative to seek or innovate a better revenue stream, that the average person should be able to just avail themselves to some preordained destination when they get out of high school and be handed a job where they show up 8 hours a day 5x a week without giving a fuck, putting in minimum effort, and live a middle class lifestyle.

This is why Socialism fails every time.
 
What you're saying is that without doing anything, or inheriting any risk, or developing any skills, or taking initiative to seek or innovate a better revenue stream, that the average person should be able to just avail themselves to some preordained destination when they get out of high school and be handed a job where they show up 8 hours a day 5x a week without giving a fuck, putting in minimum effort, and live a middle class lifestyle.

This is why Socialism fails every time.

No, what I am saying is that our system generates massive wealth, and that the average person should be able to obtain a middle class lifestyle, and not because anyone deserves anything, but because it is good economics that are in the national interest.

The person that invented antibiotics is dead. No one has a right to its benefits. We all stand equally on the wealth that was built before us.
 
I don't understand your thread title.

You don't think people without a college degree can work hard and become successful?

What about trade schools, does that count as college in your eyes?

You want everyone given the same opportunities regardless of the knowledge or skills?

No, don't know where you got that from.

Yes, but that isn't really the point.

No.
 
Did that already. Made a whopping 6 bucks an hour.

I'm good.
 
What you're saying is that without doing anything, or inheriting any risk, or developing any skills, or taking initiative to seek or innovate a better revenue stream, that the average person should be able to just avail themselves to some preordained destination when they get out of high school and be handed a job where they show up 8 hours a day 5x a week without giving a fuck, putting in minimum effort, and live a middle class lifestyle.

This is why Socialism fails every time.

It just hasn't been done right yet. You clearly don't have the right mindset.
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In theory makes some sense to make a new and better union for workers. The problem comes up that automation is a main reason why unions became less effective or helpful for laborers. There would need to be laws put in place saying humans have rights over machines in choosing work to be done in order for that to happen. Companies would likely not complain if everyone was on a level playing field. If not done, companies will need to choose more effective automation machines to stay competitive.
 
In theory makes some sense to make a new and better union for workers. The problem comes up that automation is a main reason why unions became less effective or helpful for laborers. There would need to be laws put in place saying humans have rights over machines in choosing work to be done in order for that to happen. Companies would likely not complain if everyone was on a level playing field. If not done, companies will need to choose more effective automation machines to stay competitive.

Shouldn't the solution to automation be shorter work weeks?

I mean I know quarterly bean counters tend to lack forsight, but I would think even they understand they need workers to have consumers.
 

Is this because WWII, so you don't like the response?

If so, my response is that massive wealth generation doesn't equal a larger middle class on its own, as proven by the past 40 years in this country.
 
Is this because WWII, so you don't like the response?

If so, my response is that massive wealth generation doesn't equal a larger middle class on its own, as proven by the past 40 years in this country.
No, I'm assuming you're referring to the development of top marginal tax rates, especially federal income tax rates in the US and based on that try to make the argument that America was hyper-progressive in the past, like people here do quite often, or in your case even 'socialism' done right. It always was a really bad argument and that didn't change just because Sanders now made it popular during the recent presidential debates.
 
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