Zercher Shoot and Rack

Sweet idea.


Juan,
You are a nitpicky bastard, and you don't HAVE to turn the corner on a double.
 
Shoulda posted the vids I got of me tryin' this yesterday in here. They're in the St W thread, since I hadn't posted any vids for that yet.
 
Of course I'm not qualified, but as the OP asked for comments: Looked cool, but I don't see what it has on drilling shoots on a live target combined with regular (explosive) lifting. I don't think that the movement replicates a shoot particularly well and thus it could mess with your takedown technique.
 
I enjoy greenery and freshly pressed linens.
 
It will make him stronger/more explosive in the "lift" portion of the shot. You'll never be able to simulate a shot on a person with weights, unless they start making people shaped weights.

The best double leg drill I've ever done/taught was thus:
1) Find a person your size or larger.
2) Shoot a perfect double leg. Go as slow as you need to to get it right. Penetrate, head up, hips under, snake the legs.
3) At this point, you partner should assist the lift by leaning over your shoulder.
4) Finish the lift, ending in the standing position with your partner over your shoulder. Do not slam him or he won't practice with you anymore.
5) Repeat drill to BOTH sides. Try to make the shots smoother and more explosive while maintaining proper technique.

The drill above is for wrestling, I'm sure it's different when people are trying to punch and kick you in the teeth. Brad didn't say he was reinventing the double leg drill. That lift is ASSISTANCE.
 
bacon said:
It will make him stronger/more explosive in the "lift" portion of the shot. You'll never be able to simulate a shot on a person with weights, unless they start making people shaped weights. Brad didn't say he was reinventing the double leg drill. That lift is ASSISTANCE.
Click to expand...

I am aware that it is assistance. I was saying that in my opinion it probably does not make a lot of sense as an assistance move, as takedowns are better drilled on people and explosiveness is better trained with the appropriate weight/strongman exercises.
 
Well then that settles it. Brad will just have to create a video montage of his takedowns before and after implementing the Zercher Shoot and Rack. That way we can determine if said lift is beneficial or detrimental to his fight game.

The video montage should also include shot of the ring girls....for the sake of science...
 
if it is the shot that you don't like, then just get into the right position under the bar and lift it.

no one is trying to make this out to be a replacement for some good old fashion double leg drills. it is just a cool little exercise you can do to help strengthen the lifting phase of the takedown.
 
bacon said:
1) Find a person your size or larger.
Click to expand...

Might be a bit of a problem for Brad, or any other HW, for that matter. Mir had an interview a million years ago when he said that half the problems facing HW's in MMA was rooted in not having enough like-sized sparring partners.

Hang on... Brad, weren't you training with Mark Hunt for a while? Are you still? If so, never mind. My objection to Bacon's plan has gone right out the window. :)
 
Awesome looking lift, Brad!


For the people who are nitpicking that it doesn't 'replicate' a shoot exactly, don't look at it like that then. Looks like a hell of a movement for explosiveness though!
 
Total wrestling novice here, but:

What good does the initial step in/shoot really do for you?

I think it's just a chance to fuck yourself up - you said it was a risky movement, but high risk with low reward doesn't make sense.

If you're really trying to ensure that you Zercher the weight and lift it quickly and explosively, just start out below the bar and explode into it. That will take the "that's a bad shoot" argument out of the whole thing and make it a bit safer.

Folks do that with other Zercher lifts and have good results.

With the Y set up (or two single bands) the shoot would make more sense because you could set the bands up to where you increased the resistance with the step, then further increased it with the raise.

BTW - no bar needed with the bands, just loop them around your elbows.
 
Green Monkey said:
Total wrestling novice here, but:

What good does the initial step in/shoot really do for you?

I think it's just a chance to fuck yourself up - you said it was a risky movement, but high risk with low reward doesn't make sense.

If you're really trying to ensure that you Zercher the weight and lift it quickly and explosively, just start out below the bar and explode into it. That will take the "that's a bad shoot" argument out of the whole thing and make it a bit safer.

Folks do that with other Zercher lifts and have good results.

With the Y set up (or two single bands) the shoot would make more sense because you could set the bands up to where you increased the resistance with the step, then further increased it with the raise.

BTW - no bar needed with the bands, just loop them around your elbows.
Click to expand...

I personally agree with the shot statement, and I think any new lift is cool, because that's how the lifts we know were invented; innovation.

But I also believe that for wrestling, Y bands would be better than anything else for explosiveness. And if you are blessed enough to have a partner, you can work on the speed in your penetration step and power of your lift.

Semi-related; for any wrestling whiz's: When you shoot a double in MMA do you prefer getting your head lower and legs/hips deeper in to avoid the guillotine, or shooting normal, and going for a single on stronger guys/getting an Iowa, and risking getting your back taken, if you really fuck up.
 
takeahnase said:
I am aware that it is assistance. I was saying that in my opinion it probably does not make a lot of sense as an assistance move, as takedowns are better drilled on people and explosiveness is better trained with the appropriate weight/strongman exercises.
Click to expand...


Could you please name and/or perhaps provide links to video demonstrations of the "appropriate weight/strongman exercises" that are addressing the lack of explosiveness that your claiming is found in this lift.
 
Biddy#26 said:
Could you please name and/or perhaps provide links to video demonstrations of the "appropriate weight/strongman exercises" that are addressing the lack of explosiveness that your claiming is found in this lift.
Click to expand...

I did not claim that the lift lacked explosiveness. I stated that explosiveness is probably better trained with other exercises, by these exercises I mean clean and snatch variants etc., as well as e.g. tyre flipping, car pushing etc. (if repeated power output is required) - in fact, I'm pretty sure you know what I meant.

The "Zercher Shoot and Rack" is meant to train power in the context of taking someone down, i.e. is meant as an sport-specific exercise with respect to wrestling/MMA. I'm saying that I think it does not do a good job at that, because power itself is presumably better trained by other exericises and because it may induce bad technique, since - in my opinion -it does not closely replicate correct takedown technique (not to speak of what I believe could induce a somewhat high risk of injury). As an example of where I'm coming from. some people think boxing with dumbbells is a good idea, others think it isn't.

The OP asked for an opinion, I gave mine, that's it. I'm not a coach, MMA fighter or even a competing athlete in other sports.
 
Well, let's give him a chance to see if it improves his game or not. I think it will, but we'll wait and see.
 
I think Ill try these...although Im gonna start real light so i dont kill myself...nice work!
 
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