Zercher Shoot and Rack

It goes without saying that the best way to practice is with a partner the way Bacon described above.

This fills the gap when a partner isn't available.
This lift is a great addition to any weight lifting routine geared toward wrestling, judo, and mma. I see no reason to not add it to other "takedown" weight room drills: good mornings, dead lifts, etc.

Two things:

To all: Try them and then comment on them. It may change your perspective.

Also, I like the idea of starting from a fight stance and then "shooting" to get under the bar. The feeling of running into something that wants to stop your movement, and then powering through it seems to be a key element.
 
Bubble Boy said:
This lift is a great addition to any weight lifting routine geared toward wrestling, judo, and mma. I see no reason to not add it to other "takedown" weight room drills: good mornings, dead lifts, etc.
Click to expand...

Those are not drills.
 
mschatz said:
semantics?
Click to expand...

No, saying that they are drills IMO implies that they mimic the underlying movement to a degree that makes one more proficient at the underlying movement with respect to its technical execution. Deadlifts and good mornings make you stronger. They obviously help you with your takedowns, but so does having a good breakfast.
 
takeahnase said:
No, saying that they are drills IMO implies that they mimic the underlying movement to a degree that makes one more proficient at the underlying movement with respect to its technical execution. Deadlifts and good mornings make you stronger. They obviously help you with your takedowns, but so does having a good breakfast.
Click to expand...

Ah, I see. I think the zercher deadlift shoot would qualify as a drill then. It mimics the shoot movement enough to become more proficient at it. It shouldnt take the place of actual drilling the shoot with your partners, but it seems like a good assistant movement now and then.
 
mschatz said:
Ah, I see. I think the zercher deadlift shoot would qualify as a drill then. It mimics the shoot movement enough to become more proficient at it. It shouldnt take the place of actual drilling the shoot with your partners, but it seems like a good assistant movement now and then.
Click to expand...

In principle, maybe, but as I said before, I think it would be a bad drill (I elaborated why above). We also agreed that I would shut the fuck up and let Brad tell everybody whether the movement did help him with his takedowns.
 
Bubble Boy said:
Also, I like the idea of starting from a fight stance and then "shooting" to get under the bar. The feeling of running into something that wants to stop your movement, and then powering through it seems to be a key element.
Click to expand...

That's what I was looking for in my question/comment - if it really does add something (running into a static object and overcoming the impetus) then the shoot/step is worth doing. If that's true, it is probably worth doing as close to the actual motion as possible so it does have more of a "drill" aspect.

We're all kinda arguing semantics at this point - is it a drill, an assistance exercise, a training aid, or simply a dynamic lift?

What does it simulate? An actual shoot, the portion of a takedown after the shoot, but before the slam, or a takedown against the cage?

I think everyone agrees that the movement (or portions of it) is useful for live fighting, but everyone is arguing from different points of view. Define the role of the motion and I think you'll get a ton of agreement.

It sorta has me thinking that there might be a good exercise involving this motion with the y band setup and a heavy bag secured to the bar.

That way, you'd get the benefits of increasing resistance during the shoot, the increased strength from lifting the weight, plus more of a "live action" feel from having to lift the heavy bag off the floor and make allowances for the bulk/awkwardness of the bag.

If you're in your own gym, you could even set this up without the rack and toss the weight/bar/heavy bag after you clear the floor.

I'm thinking you could use bands/bungees/duct tape to secure the bar to the bar (you could use a long sandbag or series of them as well) so that you simulated the force and motion needed to pick a person up off the floor.

You could even tailor the motion to the height of your next opponent if you wanted to get fancy.
 
GM - A sand bag might be even more functional (for lack of a better term) than the punching bag. More awkward...
 
I think this lift looks really cool, and should be added to Finnegan's MMA+Lifting guide. I think this directly relates to take downs from the clinch, which is good, because I think they are very under utilized and also very hard to defend. I'm definitely going to be trying these out
 
Have you considered lowering your rack bars. When you hit in a shot, you're fairly close to the ground and your knee is either touching or close. I'm not saying mimic the shot 100%, but I'd start lower than you do.

I tried these this afternoon on our squat rack, I definitely felt it - ESPECIALLY lowering the weight back down. Then again im not sure how much of a distance difference it really is. So up to you.
 
ThinkGreen said:
I think this lift looks really cool, and should be added to Finnegan's MMA+Lifting guide. I think this directly relates to take downs from the clinch, which is good, because I think they are very under utilized and also very hard to defend. I'm definitely going to be trying these out
Click to expand...

I added it with a link to this thread.
 
takeahnase said:
Those are not drills.
Click to expand...

Re: good mornings, dead lift.

My weight room mindset is a bit different than yours obviously. My weight room days are one big drill geared toward better performance on the mat or in the ring.

Your point is taken, but superfluous to my personal goals.
 
Bubble Boy said:
It goes without saying that the best way to practice is with a partner the way Bacon described above.

This fills the gap when a partner isn't available.
This lift is a great addition to any weight lifting routine geared toward wrestling, judo, and mma. I see no reason to not add it to other "takedown" weight room drills: good mornings, dead lifts, etc.

Two things:

To all: Try them and then comment on them. It may change your perspective.

Also, I like the idea of starting from a fight stance and then "shooting" to get under the bar. The feeling of running into something that wants to stop your movement, and then powering through it seems to be a key element.
Click to expand...

"Shoot" on a heavy sandbag and throw it forward (landing into a sorta sprawl position)? Repeat?

Could be interesting.
 
I had forgotten about the arguement regarding this drill!

I think my training partner Biddy said it well
the lift was never meant to replicate in perfect textbook breakdown of each and every fundamental element of a freestyle wrestling shot, it is merely an outside the square drill that can allow an increase in the ability and efficiency of an explosive movement of a heavyweight (bodyweight is the minimum amount ive deemed appropriate) sized apparatus on an increasing height and level plane, this increased efficiency will be beneficial as it runs parallels with several key areas of MMA fighting, the outside shot and clinch takedowns, as well as many other areas im sure, but these two were the targets i had in mind.
Click to expand...
This is something that I would only do in a gpp phase of training. Its something different and challenging. But its really not truely sports specific, the movement is about the powerful lifting of an opponent.

But as a strenght manoeuver during a gpp phase its a fun option. The chain yoke variation made it a hell of a lot more difficult. But for sports specific training nothing is better than training with a partner!

Here is the Chain Yoke Variation
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mL1BRd7AZ44&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mL1BRd7AZ44&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Its not pretty to watch but its a training option none the less.
 
This is an awesome idea for a lift and I can't wait to try it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,237,005
Messages
55,460,447
Members
174,788
Latest member
Santos FC 1912

Share this page

Back
Top