Social Urijah Faber is anti-vax wtf

All anti-vaxxers are scientifically illiterate and complete dumbasses.
 
Gandhi said:
"A mother-of-three believes a routine flu shot left her crippled and trapped in her own body. Melina Sarris reports."

Yeah she believes, there u have it.
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it doesn't get any more empirical than a housewife's opinion.
 
As a scientist (a year away from having my phd in biochemistry) this is right up there with evolution in terms of loudest people arguing against having no basic understanding of science.

I'm not a car guy. But it would be like if my brother had his oil changed in his car then something broke down in his car a day later. So then I equate oil changes with cars breaking down. I then take my car to a mechanic when it's not running well. He asks when was my last oil change and I say it's been 15k miles but I don't believe in oil changes. My brother had an oil change and his car broke down. I wonder what a mechanic would say.

That's what most you antivaxxers sound like
 
Gandhi said:
"A mother-of-three believes a routine flu shot left her crippled and trapped in her own body. Melina Sarris reports."

Yeah she believes, there u have it.
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Yeh, I'm sure her body just suddenly became crippled out of nowhere for no apparent reason
 
wellz6 said:
Yeh, I'm sure her body just suddenly became crippled out of nowhere for no apparent reason
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Do you even unexplained illness bro? What logical reasoning."my friend ate a salad and then his asshole exploded, salads make your rectum ignite."

Correlation =/= causation
 
wellz6 said:
Yeh, I'm sure her body just suddenly became crippled out of nowhere for no apparent reason
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That's a really strange thing to say and I don't think anyone believes that. I just have to ask, do you understand the difference between correlation and causation?
 
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Voodoo_Child906 said:
No I'm not ok with it, if a good mechanic can give you risks, benefits and alternatives with your car than certainly an MD should be required to. If they fail to do so then I would be looking for another Dr.
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In my experience, you would be looking for another doctor for a while... although to be fair, they would have to spend a considerable amount of time with each patient if they actually had to discuss things like odds of catching disease and the various vaccine adverse events that may occur.

And yes, the overwhelming majority of experts who are most conversant with the data are pro-vaccination, I'm not sure why you'd be surprised.
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I didn't say I was surprised, I noted that in the rare instance that your doctor even discusses vaccines beyond "its safe and effective," vaccines are discussed with a focus solely on the positives.

He is stating that from his experience and/or education, testing and treating mild allergic reactions to vaccines is far more elementary than dealing with disease outbreaks.
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This seems contradictory. Your friend's statement about allergy testing was that it is "highly inaccurate and expensive." Did he share any insights on what it is like to treat a severe AEs, like allergic reactions or febrile seizure?

As for disease outbreaks, treatment for measles basically requires one to control fever, rest, and drink plenty of fluids...

I really don't know what to say to this, you would rather our society have disease outbreaks with risks of complications (yes I know minimal) than vaccinations... mind boggling!
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Well, to me it is mostly about cost/benefit analysis. One problem is that we aren't given accurate data on disease versus known adverse event incidence.

Overstated?? The introduction of vaccines caused our bodies to create the antibodies necessary to fight off these diseases. There is a mechanism and direct causation... how can you dispute this?
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Antibody response is a "correlate" of immunity. There are documented instances where "sufficient" titre levels were not protective, and where individuals who lacked antibody responses did not suffer from the disease after exposure.

The original vaccine was not effective, researches are developing new ones. When an effective vaccine is distributed than herd immunity will take place.
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Do you blame people for opting out of this sort of experimentation?

Compared to the risks of epidemic vaccine injuries? I think not.
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My point is that people are scared into getting vaccinated. For example, research suggests that measles mortality is around 1 in 10,000 (and occurs almost exclusively in immuno-compromised individuals) in first world countries, yet CDC will claim it is 1 in 1000. As I stated previously, incidence of adverse reactions is significantly under-reported, preventing an accurate comparison.

So, we have a "science based" system of care in which the risk of disease is overstated while the adverse reactions to vaccines are understated...

I agree with you here, a body like the CDC should source all their statistics on their website.
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Glad to hear this!

How is the manufacturer liable when it is following all the regulations given to it by the FDA? They follow policy and regulations and do not create them.
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The manufacturer created the product and produced the data suggesting that it is safe. I must admit that I am not entirely versed on the subject, however, I don't see why vaccines should not be handled just as other pharmaceuticals are.

I'd like to hear your take on it.

Besides, the FDA is basically a rubber stamp and virtually always follows the recommendations of the advisory committees. What is disturbing, is that some of these committees have voting members who have direct financial ties to the companies whose products they are voting on.
 
PhitePhan said:
In my experience, you would be looking for another doctor for a while... although to be fair, they would have to spend a considerable amount of time with each patient if they actually had to discuss things like odds of catching disease and the various vaccine adverse events that may occur.

I didn't say I was surprised, I noted that in the rare instance that your doctor even discusses vaccines beyond "its safe and effective," vaccines are discussed with a focus solely on the positives.
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From my experience I find a Dr. more than willing to discuss these topics if they are asked, a lot of people just don't though.

Also why do you believe that the overwhelming majority of experts and medical professionals believe that vaccines are a positive thing?


This seems contradictory. Your friend's statement about allergy testing was that it is "highly inaccurate and expensive." Did he share any insights on what it is like to treat a severe AEs, like allergic reactions or febrile seizure?

As for disease outbreaks, treatment for measles basically requires one to control fever, rest, and drink plenty of fluids...
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I never asked him but I certainly can, and again you just gave measles as an example. What about mumps, rubella, polio, scarlet fever, pertussis, small pox and all the other diseases. Is this something that as a society we really want to revisit again?

Well, to me it is mostly about cost/benefit analysis. One problem is that we aren't given accurate data on disease versus known adverse event incidence.
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Cost benefit analysis? not sure if you're joking here. What would the cost be to quarantine schools and other public spaces. The cost of child care for children having to stay home for weeks at a time. the possible other side effects, like pneumonia, encephalitis, blindness, diarrhea, ear infections, congenital rubella syndrome.


Antibody response is a "correlate" of immunity. There are documented instances where "sufficient" titre levels were not protective, and where individuals who lacked antibody responses did not suffer from the disease after exposure.
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I would like to see your citation for this as this sounds ridiculous on first reading. Here is my understanding:
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/vaccines/understanding/pages/howwork.aspx

Do you blame people for opting out of this sort of experimentation?
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Why would they opt out from this?


My point is that people are scared into getting vaccinated. For example, research suggests that measles mortality is around 1 in 10,000 (and occurs almost exclusively in immuno-compromised individuals) in first world countries, yet CDC will claim it is 1 in 1000. As I stated previously, incidence of adverse reactions is significantly under-reported, preventing an accurate comparison.

So, we have a "science based" system of care in which the risk of disease is overstated while the adverse reactions to vaccines are understated...
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First of all, why is this always about mortality rates as there are other complications from diseases I previously mentioned. If you believe the overwhelming majority of experts and medical professionals to be fraudulent than just say so.

The manufacturer created the product and produced the data suggesting that it is safe. I must admit that I am not entirely versed on the subject, however, I don't see why vaccines should not be handled just as other pharmaceuticals are.

I'd like to hear your take on it.

Besides, the FDA is basically a rubber stamp and virtually always follows the recommendations of the advisory committees. What is disturbing, is that some of these committees have voting members who have direct financial ties to the companies whose products they are voting on.
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I'm no lawyer, I'm just a layman that likes to read a lot.

- If there was contamination and the manufacturer was found to be negligent than I'd say they are responsible
- The only other area I can see being held liable would the research department who stamped the drug safe, if someone can prove they were negligent or grossly incompetent than they might have a case

If there are any lawyers reading this, please give us your opinion.
 
Honest question.

If in 5 years they add another 20 vaccinations to the already growing list do you just willfully sign Ur kids up for any thing they want to put into your children??

If so where is the line drawn in the sand.

I've said it before, I'm not anti vax at all but there has to be a point in the sand where it just becomes to much stuff were putting into our kids.

We are already giving them much more than even 20 years ago. So where does one say I'll take these vaccinations but not any more. Or does one never say that??
 
And why are people treating the measles like the Hantavirus.

Legit water, bed rest. And some Advil is what a doctor will prescribe to a kid with this. Possibly some vitamin C and A.

Let's relax with the measles like it's just killing normal healthy kids in first world nations like it's an epidemic.
 
The measles absolutely can kill a child. Especially one with an already compromised immune system.
 
KONG-D'SNT-TAP said:
Honest question.

If in 5 years they add another 20 vaccinations to the already growing list do you just willfully sign Ur kids up for any thing they want to put into your children??

If so where is the line drawn in the sand.

I've said it before, I'm not anti vax at all but there has to be a point in the sand where it just becomes to much stuff were putting into our kids.

We are already giving them much more than even 20 years ago. So where does one say I'll take these vaccinations but not any more. Or does one never say that??
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Great point
 
KONG-D'SNT-TAP said:
Honest question.

If in 5 years they add another 20 vaccinations to the already growing list do you just willfully sign Ur kids up for any thing they want to put into your children??

If so where is the line drawn in the sand.

I've said it before, I'm not anti vax at all but there has to be a point in the sand where it just becomes to much stuff were putting into our kids.

We are already giving them much more than even 20 years ago. So where does one say I'll take these vaccinations but not any more. Or does one never say that??
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This is what I have been thinking. At some point we cross a line of over medication.

Also, I have to be against mandatory vaccinations. No one should be forced to do something that can possibly kill them. Even if it has a minutely, super-tiny small chance, you should be given the right to opt out.
 
Mike90 said:
The measles absolutely can kill a child. Especially one with an already compromised immune system.
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It literally wouldn't kill 99% of all kids in America.

The kid would have to have a very weakened immune system. Like having Leukemia or HIV. Or being severely Malnourished.


Honestly you're bugging out over an illness that the doctor would prescribe water, bed rest and an Advil to cure. Possibly being gone before 5 days time.


If I was a parent I wouldn't lose sleep over not giving my kid a measles vaccination.
 
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