What you need to know about Fedor

[JKS]

I'd agree with all of that, and that's exactly what i'm talking about when it comes to the GOAT/weightclass GOAT discussion. There are so many factors to be taken into account. Wins, losses, manner of wins & losses, amount of time unbeaten, skill set, names beaten on your resume. There are a few fighters that could be recognised as the best depending on what factors people favour.

For example, Nog has a better resume than Fedor, yet was bested everytime they fought each other. Randy arguably has the most impressive accolades/trophy cabinet but has a lot of losses, including one to Nog. Cain looks to be unbeatable when he's on, and has the skillset to beat any HW in history, but his resume doesn't really stack up to some of the others. Werdum has the best resume and is the only man to not only beat, but finish the other three consensus #1 heavyweights ever, but he too has more losses than Fedor. Fedor himself has the longest unbeaten streak in HW history, beat one of the other HW goats decisively twice, but fought quite a few mediocre fighters and guys undersized for the weightclass. The loss to an old Hendo who has looked mostly mediocre since is a bad blemish on his record too, and he decisively lost to Werdum.

It's a really tough one just trying to decide who is the best HW ever, let alone the GOAT regardless of weight.

The greatest HW ever I personally dont have difficulty with defining, I think its Fedor no doubt. Like you said there are draw backs for every fighter but when you add it all up for Hw, I think its Fedor. Its not a exact science and Fedor did lose to Silva and Werdum, and he never fought Randy, Barnett, Cain, JDS so we dont know if he's better then those guys. But when I add up the top 10 and top 5 wins, the win streak, the overall competition he beat, the titles he really has accomplished more then any other HW. Its not a simple comparison, but we gotta use what we have.

I look at a guy like Werdum who is at his best now, but Werdum has losses in nearly every part of his career. Early Pride, first UFC run, and SF. His current run in the UFC has elevated him closer to the best but not there yet. A guy like Cain has only 15 fights and already 2 losses in his prime and same with JDS. So any of these guys I cant put over Fedor.

Nog is a interesting one when you look at it from the start of their career to say when Fedor retired in 2012, no point in considering what Nog did after cause that only makes him look worse. But Nog at 34-7 vs Fedor at 34-4 (screw the TK loss, its really 34-3) Nog had a few better wins Hendo, Barnett, Werdum, Sergei, Couture, Ricco, Herring 2 more times, the only thing Fedor had on him was Andrei, Hunt, Randleman and Nog 2x) So I like Nog's resume, but Nog did have 4 more defeats and Fedor did beat him twice. In addition, Fedor had the better Pride title accomplishments. So I cant think of anyway possible to place Nog over him.

I cant find any possibilities to place any HW over Fedor. Were not matching up the same criteria at all times cause they all fought different fighters etc, but we gotta work with what we have. As for overall GOAT, it makes it every harder. I dont bother with that.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

The UFC is just as shady as PRIDE was.

lol nice try, though.

I question this. There were a lot of allegations about fixed fights and works in Pride.

I can see why fans would dislike the UFC for being too greedy or putting on too many cards or having hype up to 11 most of the time. But I have not seen much reason in my years watching to question the legitimacy of the fights that actually take place.

 

[JKS]

I'd take your "article" about as seriously as I take you. That is to say not at all.

I still remember your thread where you were trying to convince people that Hong Man Choi was a legit win. And used that fight to show how Fedor's ground game had declined between then and the Bigfoot fight. All without a mention of Bigfoot being a legit BJJ black Belt and HMC being a complete noob on the ground. It's you that needs to seperate reality from the world inside your head.

Hint- When everyone is telling you that you're the crazy one, it probably means that YOU are, not that everyone else is wrong and you're the only person smart enough to see the light. Even other Fedor fanboys don't take you seriously.

You know what? A win like Choi or Zulu or Nagata.....to be honest I dont even consider those to do anything for Fedor. They were sub par comp, but still wins so it sort of evens out. I dont praise him for it and count it as much towards his status. But at same time I dont hold it against him. I regard it as it didnt even really happen.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

The greatest HW ever I personally dont have difficulty with defining, I think its Fedor no doubt. Like you said there are draw backs for every fighter but when you add it all up for Hw, I think its Fedor. Its not a exact science and Fedor did lose to Silva and Werdum, and he never fought Randy, Barnett, Cain, JDS so we dont know if he's better then those guys. But when I add up the top 10 and top 5 wins, the win streak, the overall competition he beat, the titles he really has accomplished more then any other HW. Its not a simple comparison, but we gotta use what we have.

I look at a guy like Werdum who is at his best now, but Werdum has losses in nearly every part of his career. Early Pride, first UFC run, and SF. His current run in the UFC has elevated him closer to the best but not there yet. A guy like Cain has only 15 fights and already 2 losses in his prime and same with JDS. So any of these guys I cant put over Fedor.

Nog is a interesting one when you look at it from the start of their career to say when Fedor retired in 2012, no point in considering what Nog did after cause that only makes him look worse. But Nog at 34-7 vs Fedor at 34-4 (screw the TK loss, its really 34-3) Nog had a few better wins Hendo, Barnett, Werdum, Sergei, Couture, Ricco, Herring 2 more times, the only thing Fedor had on him was Andrei, Hunt, Randleman and Nog 2x) So I like Nog's resume, but Nog did have 4 more defeats and Fedor did beat him twice. In addition, Fedor had the better Pride title accomplishments. So I cant think of anyway possible to place Nog over him.

I cant find any possibilities to place any HW over Fedor. Were not matching up the same criteria at all times cause they all fought different fighters etc, but we gotta work with what we have. As for overall GOAT, it makes it every harder. I dont bother with that.

Thoughtful post. I like it.

 

[JKS]

Thoughtful post. I like it.

Thanks!

 

[kikikhan]

I'd take your "article" about as seriously as I take you. That is to say not at all.

I still remember your thread where you were trying to convince people that Hong Man Choi was a legit win. And used that fight to show how Fedor's ground game had declined between then and the Bigfoot fight. All without a mention of Bigfoot being a legit BJJ black Belt and HMC being a complete noob on the ground. It's you that needs to seperate reality from the world inside your head.

Hint- When everyone is telling you that you're the crazy one, it probably means that YOU are, not that everyone else is wrong and you're the only person smart enough to see the light. Even other Fedor fanboys don't take you seriously.

Tell me what in my article is not true.

And yes I can see a difference in Fedor's approach in those 2 fights. You are too blind to see trough the fact that BF was a BJJ black belt and Choi was not.

Every Fedor's win is legit. They just differ in quality.

I'm talking about facts, credentials and context. Something most MMA know nothing about. All great minds have struggled with average people not understanding them. I have dealt with this my whole life. It always took years for people to admit that I was right.

 

[SharkBoy]

you can apply the elo algorithm and get a completely objective measure on fighters accomplishments


Fedor stands out with the highest elo score of any heavyweight with an official mma fight.

http://www.mma-elo.com/ranks.php?r=13

 

[OldBoy91]

@JKS- Good post. I mostly agree, again. I just think that Werdum having decisively beaten the other three HW GOATs throws a mighty large spanner in the works. I think it's hard to argue that if he isn't there already, a few more top wins and he has a case to at least equal Fedor.

 

[Steve08]

lol ignoring the fact that he fought in the US not once, not twice but three times before losing to Werdum, huh?

Classic

It's not at all possible that Fedor looked visibly sluggish and more one-dimensional even before that, and got caught in a submission from a world class black belt while recklessly pursuing a 90 second finish..

 

[OldBoy91]

Tell me what in my article is not true.

And yes I can see a difference in Fedor's approach in those 2 fights. You are too blind to see trough the fact that BF was a BJJ black belt and Choi was not.

Every Fedor's win is legit. They just differ in quality.

I'm talking about facts, credentials and context. Something most MMA know nothing about. All great minds have struggled with average people not understanding them. I have dealt with this my whole life. It always took years for people to admit that I was right.

Hahahahahahahahh!!!!! You are just too good to be true. Top kek.

 

[kikikhan]

You know what? A win like Choi or Zulu or Nagata.....to be honest I dont even consider those to do anything for Fedor. They were sub par comp, but still wins so it sort of evens out. I dont praise him for it and count it as much towards his status. But at same time I dont hold it against him. I regard it as it didnt even really happen.

Not really fair is it? Fedor was in danger of losing any of those fights. No matter how small the chances. At HW it's dangerous. Choi and Zulu were f*ckinghuge fighters with serious martial arts credentials. Nagata had serious credentials too. No need to say how great these wins were, just take them for what they are.

Fedor beat a huge K-1 kickboxer/ssireum wrestling champ in Choi.

He beat a huge undefeated/alleged KO machine vale tudo fighter in Zulu.

He beat a world class wrestler with better standup than Brock Lesnar in Nagata.

Not just beat them, beat them quickly and in very entertaining way.

I find this impressive.

I don't use these wins as a proof of his GOATness, but he worked to win and you should be fair and take this wins for what they are.

 

[kikikhan]

Hahahahahahahahh!!!!! You are just too good to be true. Top kek.

Laugh all you want. It's still true.

 

[James L]

When you consider his career and the context as a whole, he is a HW ATG and currently the HW GOAT, as well as a Top 5 P4P ATG if not Top 3. No matter how you slice it.

Bringing in figures of being at a weight disadvantage and if not then being the "same" size almost the whole time and hardly ever being heavier, only supports the case, doesn't do it any damage at all.
Every straw reached for and grasped, is only that, a straw.

I suppose it's the fans that bother the overly passionate anti-Fedor types, because it would be weird if Fedor bothered them, he came across as a very nice & simple man, pretended he was fighting for every meal his children would have when he fought, and iirc he never did anything wrong. It's like that funny quote by Brian Stann that went something along the lines of "if you don't like Frankie Edgar, you seriously might be a bad person." Some funny/cool people have it as their sig on here. Obviously the same applies to Fedor based on the fact that every poster who is for some reason against him, has come off very bitter and mean. The people who don't care for him seem to be fine. Some huggers are weird, the regular fans are just fine.

 

[minute bull]

I love that this series of pictures looks like a progression of BJM losing his hair then discovering a questionable, non FDA approved, south-of-the-border remedy for it.

 

[Steve08]

Not really fair is it? Fedor was in danger of losing any of those fights. No matter how small the chances. At HW it's dangerous. Choi and Zulu were f*ckinghuge fighters with serious martial arts credentials. Nagata had serious credentials too. No need to say how great these wins were, just take them for what they are.

Fedor beat a huge K-1 kickboxer/ssireum wrestling champ in Choi.

He beat a huge undefeated/alleged KO machine vale tudo fighter in Zulu.

He beat a world class wrestler with better standup than Brock Lesnar in Nagata.

Not just beat them, beat them quickly and in very entertaining way.

I find this impressive.

Dude, are you serious? Yuji Nagata was a pro wrestler who never once medaled in national or international competition as an amateur wrestler. And you somehow extrapolate that as him having "serious credentials"? That's actually absurd. World class? He didn't even make top 16 at the Worlds, much less the Olympics...

Furthermore, only ONE of the guys Zulu beat prior to facing Fedor had more wins than losses when he fought Zulu.

You have completely undermined any legitimacy you may have previously enjoyed with that post, and I'd honestly recommend that you petition a mod to delete it. Please bear in mind the fact that I ABSOLUTELY LOVE FEDOR and am in no way disputing the notion that he is the greatest fighter ever to compete in MMA.

 

[Pterodactyl]

The GOAT debate is endless and subjective, but a healthy conversation on the topic can be fun.
But...any attempt to discredit the prowess of guys like Fedor, GSP, Silva, Jones, Aldo, etc...end up making the TS look like a fool. These guys have all been utterly dominant, and there just are not any valid arguments to the contrary.
"Fedor hating" is an agenda that is worth nothing more than ruffling some feathers and making those who push it look like morons.

 

[Glove]

Dude, are you serious? Yuji Nagata was a pro wrestler who never once medaled in national or international competition as an amateur wrestler. And you somehow extrapolate that as him having "serious credentials"? That's actually absurd.

Furthermore, only ONE of the guys Zulu beat prior to facing Fedor had more wins than losses when he fought Zulu.

You have completely undermined any legitimacy you may have previously enjoyed with that post, and I'd honestly recommend that you petition a mod to delete it. Please bear in mind the fact that I ABSOLUTELY LOVE FEDOR and am in no way disputing the notion that he is the greatest fighter ever to compete in MMA.

From the Wkipedia

"Before turning professional, Nagata was a successful amateur wrestler. Competing in the Greco-Roman style, Nagata represented Japan in the Asian Championships twice, placing fifth in 1993 and placing fourth in 1994, in one World Cup at the Espoir level in 1988, and in the 1991 World Championships, placing twenty-first."

His accolades are hardly even impressive, he is mainly known as a wrestler, but remmeber he fought Fedor not under the pride banner but under Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye which was about wrestlers vs mma fighters.

 

[Isglass]

Really? Hard to prove that...because none of that "equally good or better competition" ever amounted to anything once PRIDE folded. All we have are assumptions from Fedor's delusional fans.

How did Chuck Lidell, Matt Hughes and Tito Ortiz do once PRIDE folded?

 

[Glove]

The GOAT debate is endless and subjective, but a healthy conversation on the topic can be fun.
But...any attempt to discredit the prowess of guys like Fedor, GSP, Silva, Jones, Aldo, etc...end up making the TS look like a fool. These guys have all been utterly dominant, and there just are not any valid arguments to the contrary.
"Fedor hating" is an agenda that is worth nothing more than ruffling some feathers and making those who push it look like morons.

Absolutely in agreement and something i always preached on here is the subjective nature of the label (GOAT). The arguing is pointless as it will never be the same for everyone.

 

[RJ43]

People forget about Lindland at the time too. He was considered to be one of the best fighters in the world outside of the major orgs.

Lindland was on a 9-1 run, his only loss being a razor close decision to Rampage. He was doing well against solid LHW's.

It was a weird matchup, but Lindland was not considered a pushover.

Don't you remember? Fedor grabbed the ropes! The whole win is null and void!