Evidence of God vs Evidence for no god

[m52nickerson]

So are we just pulling things out of our rears now?

No one is suggesting that. What we are suggesting is that based on what we know...that order only arises due to intelligence and direction...the universe would have have been intelligently directed by something or someone.

As opposed to the matter-of-the-gaps fallacy...or the evolution-of-the-gaps fallacy?

You have almost zero understanding of science and obviously don't know what a fallacy is.

No, order does not only arise from intelligence and direction. Place water in a freezer and the water molecules arrange themselves in a orderly crystalline structure. Partials and gases in space clump together and form large bodies.

 

[TheComebackKid]

You have almost zero understanding of science and obviously don't know what a fallacy is.

No, order does not only arise from intelligence and direction. Place water in a freezer and the water molecules arrange themselves in a orderly crystalline structure. Partials and gases in space clump together and form large bodies.

Those things only happen based on the laws that govern those things and the attributes that make it up. So it goes back to the question...who established the order with those laws that govern those elements. One would be hardpressed to believe that it was randomly established by...nothing.

 

[m52nickerson]

Those things only happen based on the laws that govern those things and the attributes that make it up. So it goes back to the question...who established the order with those laws that govern those elements. One would be hardpressed to believe that it was randomly established by...nothing.

As I said, we have not answered the question why the universe is the way it is or why it exists at all. Not knowing is not the same as saying it was random or it was caused by nothing. However it also does not prove God. That is exactly what the God-of-the-Gaps fallacy is. Saying that God exists because of unknowns.

 

[sickc0d3r]

Those things only happen based on the laws that govern those things and the attributes that make it up. So it goes back to the question...who established the order with those laws that govern those elements. One would be hardpressed to believe that it was randomly established by...nothing.

Why would anyone be hardpressed to believe the laws of nature exist without being established by something else? It's no different than believing in an intelligent creator that exists without being established by something else.

 

[TheComebackKid]

As I said, we have not answered the question why the universe is the way it is or why it exists at all. Not knowing is not the same as saying it was random or it was caused by nothing. However it also does not prove God. That is exactly what the God-of-the-Gaps fallacy is. Saying that God exists because of unknowns.

And that is the "god of the gaps fallacy" fallacy when you suggest that people insert God, or a Creator, simply because "we don't know". That's completely wrong. We invoke a Creator based on what we do know...which is that things do not design themselves nor do they naturally create order and complexity.

Another element to the "god of the gaps fallacy" fallacy is the idea that saying "God did it" negates the physical or scientific explanation for how something operates.

 

[m52nickerson]

And that is the "god of the gaps fallacy" fallacy when you suggest that people insert God, or a Creator, simply because "we don't know". That's completely wrong. We invoke a Creator based on what we do know...which is that things do not design themselves nor do they naturally create order and complexity.

Another element to the "god of the gaps fallacy" fallacy is the idea that saying "God did it" negates the physical or scientific explanation for how something operates.

You say that order and complexity don't form naturally is at this point willful ignorance, or a straight lie. I've given you example of order that happens naturally. You are simply now ignoring facts.

You are also wrong that the God-of-the-Gaps negates physical of scientific explanation, when it does the exact opposite. It excepts those explanation places God in the unexplained and the reason for those mechanisms.

 

[InvestigatorIL]

The way everything in nature fits together so pefectly. I have a hard time believing God is not involved.

Billions and billions of years of evolution. Give it time and nature always figures it out

 

[The Diplomat]

Hey, if you throw rocks at each other enough times, life is, like, bound to happen.

Actually, if you let rocks sit around long enough, life *does* happen. Bacteria, mold, algae, etc. will grow. I'm sure you'd agree?

 

[Fawlty]

It's okay that we don't yet know exactly how matter went from inorganic to organic here. There's no reason to put god in that role. Especially not a specific god.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

i'm going to be very brutal - there is no evidence of god and whoever thinks there is is an idiot.

ideas like - omg it's so complicated, god must have made it - are just proof you are an idiot. nature and the universe don't function at the limit of your understanding. there can be very complex random or evolved events without the interference of a god.

trusting in god is giving the fuck up to your ignorance or to your need to be comforted and find happiness. the last part is fine but don't expect to be taken seriously when you talk about how you will meet your pets in heaven one day. cause you won't.

 

[Burning Hammer]

I find nature far from perfect, not something a perfect God would create.

You do find it far from perfect, your perspective can't begin to imagine perfection. It merely adjusts to equalize.

 

[Burning Hammer]

As I said, we have not answered the question why the universe is the way it is or why it exists at all. Not knowing is not the same as saying it was random or it was caused by nothing. However it also does not prove God. That is exactly what the God-of-the-Gaps fallacy is. Saying that God exists because of unknowns.

It's a fallacy predicated on us not knowing - ergo God did it. However, that's a sequential argument predicated on us believing God is the reason because we don't know. However, if we acknowledge God simply exists there is no gap, we just don't understand it yet, regardless of God's interference.

Actually, if you let rocks sit around long enough, life *does* happen. Bacteria, mold, algae, etc. will grow. I'm sure you'd agree?

Other elements are working with the rock, so it's not sitting there stagnant.

 

[Thurisaz]

Actually, if you let rocks sit around long enough, life *does* happen. Bacteria, mold, algae, etc. will grow. I'm sure you'd agree?

Depends on the conditions the rocks are in, and even then life hardly grows to where there isn't any. Take a clean rock, put it into a desert and see if it ever has anything grow on it.

 

[7437]

Depends on the conditions the rocks are in, and even then life hardly grows to where there isn't any. Take a clean rock, put it into a desert and see if it ever has anything grow on it.

Sounds like the Miller-Urey experiment.

 

[m52nickerson]

You do find it far from perfect, your perspective can't begin to imagine perfection. It merely adjusts to equalize.

My perspective? You mean one as a non-believer?

 

[m52nickerson]

It's a fallacy predicated on us not knowing - ergo God did it. However, that's a sequential argument predicated on us believing God is the reason because we don't know. However, if we acknowledge God simply exists there is no gap, we just don't understand it yet, regardless of God's interference.

Not understanding by it's very definition is a gap in knowledge.

 

[7437]

Not understanding by it's very definition is a gap in knowledge.

Just explain the gaps with God. Or you could choose to not be boring as hell, and explain them with Voldemort.

 

[JDragon]

I have not really read through this thread. Just going from the thread title it baffles me that someone should prove the nonexistence of something.

 

[Rav1nHunter]

If god is real and all powerful and all seeing then he lets children be raped and murdered. So if he is real then fuck him when i get too heaven i will stomp his fucking head in.

 

[Thurisaz]

If god is real and all powerful and all seeing then he lets children be raped and murdered. So if he is real then fuck him when i get too heaven i will stomp his fucking head in.

Don't worry, with that reasoning and bluster you won't.