Economy Bitcoin Doubters, Come Eat Your Crow

[Saint Of The K]

So what would prevent the big banks to use the block chain technology with another "currency" than BTC?

Because I don't believe for a second that the banks will somehow switch to BTC usage considering the number that's already out there.

Making some nerd a millionnaire because he bought some BTC in 2008 in his irc forum for next to nothing? Yeah right, banks are known to behave like this...

 

[Jack V Savage]

The majority has nothing to do with it mate.

Where do people put money when they hoard it? Their mattress?

Um, if the currency itself is a good investment (which is what Bitcoin proponents are saying), then absolutely.

Generally, your issue is that you're confusing economic and financial uses of "investment." Holding on to cash or financial assets doesn't do anything to grow the economy. Investing in CapEx or R&D does. Deflation doesn't encourage economic investment.

 

[Rematch]

I've made a lot of money with Bitcoin. Not because I'd ever thought it would amount to anything, but I was sitting on a lot of them, then all of a sudden they went from being worth next to nothing to $1600 a pop. I sold most over a period of time. They were literally giving away 10,000 bitcoins to anyone who wanted them when they first came out.

I wish I had taken as much as I can when they were giving them away and nobody wanted them. I'd be worth hundreds of millions now.

It's safe to say BTC is here to stay, even if the feds ban it. It's the preferred currency of the black market and deep web.

Damn. You (and every other bastard that didn't take advantage like myself) would have been millionaires for free with that offer.

 

[Greoric]

Um, if the currency itself is a good investment (which is what Bitcoin proponents are saying), then absolutely.

Generally, your issue is that you're confusing economic and financial uses of "investment." Holding on to cash or financial assets doesn't do anything to grow the economy. Investing in CapEx or R&D does. Deflation doesn't encourage economic investment.

Where do Capex investments come from? Do they come from people consuming the compensation of goods and services they produced, or do they come from deferral of that consumption for later?

 

[Cygnus A]

Wish I hadnt sold all mine now. I thought the fad was over.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Where do Capex investments come from? Do they come from people consuming the compensation of goods and services they produced, or do they come from deferral of that consumption for later?

It doesn't come from people holding onto cash or financial assets. It comes from actual physical activity. The meaningful sense in which "forgoing consumption" leads to growth is not people not spending money; it's people choosing to invest time and resources in building stuff or figuring stuff out. Note that all debt is also an asset. We don't borrow from other planets.

The biggest mistake that uneducated people make--and this is all over the spectrum--is forgetting to think in terms of value. This is how you get so many crazy claims about inflation ("it's reduced purchasing power by XX% over the past Y years") or trade (leftists often don't realize that trade deficits are effectively a loan--with one country sending over goods and services and getting paper in exchange).

 

[Greoric]

It doesn't come from people holding onto cash or financial assets. It comes from actual physical activity. The meaningful sense in which "forgoing consumption" leads to growth is not people not spending money; it's people choosing to invest time and resources in building stuff or figuring stuff out. Note that all debt is also an asset. We don't borrow from other planets.

The biggest mistake that uneducated people make--and this is all over the spectrum--is forgetting to think in terms of value. This is how you get so many crazy claims about inflation ("it's reduced purchasing power by XX% over the past Y years") or trade (leftists often don't realize that trade deficits are effectively a loan--with one country sending over goods and services and getting paper in exchange).

Yeah, I find that the biggest mistake uneducated people make is thinking that growth comes from consumption. The resources people aren't currently consuming are necessarily made available through loans for someone else's longer term productive efforts. Its a very simple concept unless you're brainwashed by quackery.

 

[waiguoren]

Deflationary pressure isn't crippling to an economy my man. In fact, when there's a steady deflationary pressure its extremely beneficial because it promotes deferred gratification and legitimate investment, but most importantly an increase in purchasing power over time.

In most times and places, nominal wages are downward sticky and deflation therefore promotes unemployment.

 

[therealdope]

Really?

You didn't know @irish_thug lives in Zimbabwe, you dumbass?

 

[Greoric]

In most times and places, nominal wages are downward sticky and deflation therefore promotes unemployment.

You should read my follow up posts to Lead. There's a difference when the deflation is predicted by the market, and when its not, as in a correction.

 

[PEB]

5734.50 US Dollar per coin.

http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-hits-record-above-5800-2017-10

 

[lecter]

alhamdulillah

 

[PEB]

Wall Street having problems as the banks JPMorgan and others have denounced it yet many of their big investors are complaining why their money is not invested in it.

Palmer was first one to give me a heads up about Bitcoin back in 2011 to bad I did not buy a few hundred of them at 14 less then 6 months later it was at 250 dollars each.

 

[Letssnuggle]

I had money in a few tech companies when the tech bubble popped. Learned a life lesson. Investing in anything that is truly nothing more than 1’s and 0’s can be worthless overnight.

 

[JonesBones]

What about all the power it consumes?

It’s also interesting to note how Bitcoin and Ethereum mining compares in power consumption to the largest traditional financial services company, Visa. According to this statistic, the number of U.S. households that could be powered by the electricity consumed by Bitcoin mining alone exceeds a 1.25 million. Another way to look at it is that roughly 27 times as much energy is consumed by Bitcoin mining as is consumed by the entire Visa network.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/bitcoin-ethereum-mining-use-significant-electrical-power/

 

[JonesBones]

5734.50 US Dollar per coin.

http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-hits-record-above-5800-2017-10

Wall Street having problems as the banks JPMorgan and others have denounced it yet many of their big investors are complaining why their money is not invested in it.

Palmer was first one to give me a heads up about Bitcoin back in 2011 to bad I did not buy a few hundred of them at 14 less then 6 months later it was at 250 dollars each.

I am not an expert in this stuff but most people who are seem to think it isn't a good idea.I am buying Bank of America like Warren Buffet. Bitcoin has no liquidity.

Unless you are a professional trader, or you simply want to gamble, stay away from Bitcoins. They have no inherent value, because they are a currency which represents value rather than having value themselves. The Bitcoin currency is not managed by any government agency, nor is it backed by any government. Bitcoin values are purely dependent upon holders having faith they will continue to have value. Right now the market looks a lot more like tulip mania than careful investing.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamha...you-probably-should-not-own-one/#692c941e3b08


"I think it's in a bubble. I just don't know when or how much it corrects," tweeted Cuban. He went on to mention that when everyone is bragging about making easy money, it's a sign of a bubble. When I think back to the tech bubble of the late '90s, or especially to the housing bubble of the mid-2000s, this certainly makes sense. "Everyone always thinks that this time is different," Cuban added.

Buffett essentially said that bitcoin is essentially a more modern version of writing someone a check or sending a money order, and advised investors to avoid it. "Stay away from it. It's a mirage, basically...The idea that it has some huge intrinsic value is a joke in my view."

 

[MilesAbove]

I hate to be this guy... but BitCoin is reminding me of a lot of other financial fad situations like EnRon and Housing Market prior to crash.

I'm glad some people are making money, though. Loving that, really. Just hope few are negatively effected if the bottom drops out.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

What about all the power it consumes?

It’s also interesting to note how Bitcoin and Ethereum mining compares in power consumption to the largest traditional financial services company, Visa. According to this statistic, the number of U.S. households that could be powered by the electricity consumed by Bitcoin mining alone exceeds a 1.25 million. Another way to look at it is that roughly 27 times as much energy is consumed by Bitcoin mining as is consumed by the entire Visa network.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/bitcoin-ethereum-mining-use-significant-electrical-power/

if im guessing correctly though, theyre comparing bitcoin energy consumption to visa 'energy consumption' and not cost of operation.

essentially, the cost of operation for bitcoin is 100% electric, while for visa it certainly is not.

its also a strange comparison since youre comparing a currency to a credit company.

I am not an expert in this stuff but most people who are seem to think it isn't a good idea

what's not a good idea?

They have no inherent value, because they are a currency which represents value rather than having value themselves. The Bitcoin currency is not managed by any government agency, nor is it backed by any government. Bitcoin values are purely dependent upon holders having faith they will continue to have value.

uhhh... yeah. all fiat money has no inherent value. this includes the u.s. dollar, and the currency of most countries..


no, bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are not managed by a central agency. that is the founding principle of the currency.

 

[JonesBones]

if im guessing correctly though, theyre comparing bitcoin energy consumption to visa 'energy consumption' and not cost of operation.

essentially, the cost of operation for bitcoin is 100% electric, while for visa it certainly is not.

its also a strange comparison since youre comparing a currency to a credit company.



what's not a good idea?



uhhh... yeah. all fiat money has no inherent value. this includes the u.s. dollar, and the currency of most countries..


no, bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are not managed by a central agency. that is the founding principle of the currency.

I can buy anything with American cash. It is the most liquid asset there is. I can't buy shit with Bitcoin.

Also:

Bitcoin investors were hit Tuesday by a double whammy of worrisome news from Russia, where President Vladimir Putin denounced the cryptocurrency as risky and used by criminals, and the country’s central bank said it would support moves to block websites dealing in bitcoin and other virtual currencies.

“The use of cryptocurrencies bears serious risks,” which include money laundering, tax evasion and terrorism funding, Putin said at a conference in Sochi, Russia,according to Bloomberg News. Putin called for more regulations, and said Russia should look to other nations in developing rules. He warned, though, that “it’s also important not to put up too many barriers,” Bloomberg reported.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/pu...ank-come-down-hard-against-bitcoin-2017-10-10

China banned bitcoin exchanges too

and

Finally, it is hard to see what would stop central banks from creating their own digital currencies and using regulation to tilt the playing field until they win. The long history of currency tells us that what the private sector innovates, the state eventually regulates and appropriates.

Price of bitcoin will collapse, says economist Rogoff, who wrote the book on currencies

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/pr...t-who-wrote-the-book-on-currencies-2017-10-09


He is saying the technology/virtual currency will eventually "thrive". But not Bitcoin. Doesn't matter what "starting principle" it had. That principle can and will be distorted/disregarded.

 

[HomeRun916]

Not bothered.