Philosophical BJJ question

[BADodd06]

If two people are grappling while floating in space and person A gets his legs around person B's body, is person A in bottom guard or is he in top mount???.............or does it even matter since the submissions from both positions are damn near the exact same?

And before you ask, no I do not do drugs.

 

[Thrawn33]

Ask me when we populate deep space....for now gravity is King and Osoto Uber Alles

 

[Daniel Fox]

If two people are grappling while floating in space and person A gets his legs around person B's body, is person A in bottom guard or is he in top mount???.............or does it even matter since the submissions from both positions are damn near the exact same?

And before you ask, no I do not do drugs.

It absolutely does not matter, you are weightless in space, and the main principals of BJJ are Gravity and Leverage, in space there is very little. There is also no oxygen, so you would need a space suit, and the suit is too bulky for you to be able to get your legs around it.

 

[EGDM]

"Top" and "Bottom" are meaningless concepts absent gravity.

This can be a really interesting way to think about positions, though. A lot of the Mendes Bros. innovations come from taking a gravity-indifferent view of technique and seeking particular structures relative to their opponents without caring about up or down.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Unfortunately, shrimping without gravity propels you infinitely into the cosmos.

 

[BADodd06]

This can be a really interesting way to think about positions, though. A lot of the Mendes Bros. innovations come from taking a gravity-indifferent view of technique and seeking particular structures relative to their opponents without caring about up or down.

Probably similar to how some of the 10th Planet transitions were developed too. I wonder how BJJ would evolve if there truly was method to take gravity out of the equation to some degree

 

[BADodd06]

Unfortunately, shrimping without gravity propels you infinitely into the cosmos.

Which means the hip escape worked. Whether you die drifting alone light-years away as a result of that escape is a different matter

 

[Daniel Fox]

Probably similar to how some of the 10th Planet transitions were developed too. I wonder how BJJ would evolve if there truly was method to take gravity out of the equation to some degree

I think you are way over thinking this. The creator of 10th planet Jiu Jitsu still thinks the world is flat, and that we faked the moon landing.

 

[EGDM]

I think it's fair to say a lot of the 10p stuff is the result of Eddie being so high he couldn't feel gravity.

 

[Uchi Mata]

If two people are grappling while floating in space and person A gets his legs around person B's body, is person A in bottom guard or is he in top mount???.............or does it even matter since the submissions from both positions are damn near the exact same?

And before you ask, no I do not do drugs.

In zero gravity, BJJ would look very different. Mostly because there'd be no advantage to being 'on top', as you wouldn't have gravity on your side to increase your pressure. BJJ would become much more about submitting positions wherein you don't rely on top pressure or the ability to move on the mat (e.g. hip out), things like the back, leg attacks, and front headlocks.

Fighting in space is actually kind of a fascinating thought experiment because so much of what we rely on in fighting is gravity and, when you're talking striking, friction with the canvas neither of which you had in space. What would striking look like when you couldn't push off the floor for weight transfer or rotation, and when you hit someone you couldn't brace against the counterforce from the blow? I tend to think it would be almost useless other than dirty boxing style strikes where you have a grip and use that to pull him into the strike.

And yes, I do drugs.

 

[SummerStriker]

In zero gravity, BJJ would look very different. Mostly because there'd be no advantage to being 'on top', as you wouldn't have gravity on your side to increase your pressure. BJJ would become much more about submitting positions wherein you don't rely on top pressure or the ability to move on the mat (e.g. hip out), things like the back, leg attacks, and front headlocks.

Fighting in space is actually kind of a fascinating thought experiment because so much of what we rely on in fighting is gravity and, when you're talking striking, friction with the canvas neither of which you had in space. What would striking look like when you couldn't push off the floor for weight transfer or rotation, and when you hit someone you couldn't brace against the counterforce from the blow? I tend to think it would be almost useless other than dirty boxing style strikes where you have a grip and use that to pull him into the strike.

And yes, I do drugs.

What if you gave an equal and opposite strike in the opposite direction, like split kicks, or donkey kicks while punching?

 

[Uchi Mata]

What if you gave an equal and opposite strike in the opposite direction, like split kicks, or donkey kicks while punching?

You could get some torque, but ultimately I think your inability to drive off the ground and also brace yourself on impact would make strikes pretty tame. Unless you were holding the person. The clinch would be basically the only striking position, though due to lack of gravitational orientation the clinch would just be another grapple.

 

[Daniel Fox]

Seriously, it is interesting to think about, but I think you would be better off going to the gym and training as opposed to looking to improve your Jiu Jitsu through the study of astrophysics. In all seriousness, guys like Bravo, Marcelo Garcia, and the Mendes brothers probably have an analytic approach to their Jiu Jitsu, but it has nothing to do with Astrophysics, weightlessness, and zero gravity. I think you are over thinking things.

 

[QingTian]

In zero gravity, BJJ would look very different. Mostly because there'd be no advantage to being 'on top', as you wouldn't have gravity on your side to increase your pressure. BJJ would become much more about submitting positions wherein you don't rely on top pressure or the ability to move on the mat (e.g. hip out), things like the back, leg attacks, and front headlocks.

But, which way would be top?

IMO, free space grappling would give a huge advantage to whoever has guard. I learned this in the swimming pool.

 

[SummerStriker]

But, which way would be top?

IMO, free space grappling would give a huge advantage to whoever has guard. I learned this in the swimming pool.

Top might be whoever has his back to the softest object. Like, I'd rather get kicked back into a bunch of space suits than a bunch of science equipment, get methyl mercury all over me or something.

 

[SummerStriker]

You could get some torque, but ultimately I think your inability to drive off the ground and also brace yourself on impact would make strikes pretty tame. Unless you were holding the person. The clinch would be basically the only striking position, though due to lack of gravitational orientation the clinch would just be another grapple.

Spinning someone might be another option. If you could get a hand on their foot or something, you might be able to kick them into a spin while only pushing yourself back. They'd be stuck until they found a wall.

 

[EGDM]

Top might be whoever has his back to the softest object.

It'd be almost impossible to stay on a wall without velcro or magnets, though. Equal and opposite reaction and all that.

What would striking look like when you couldn't push off the floor for weight transfer or rotation, and when you hit someone you couldn't brace against the counterforce from the blow? I tend to think it would be almost useless other than dirty boxing style strikes where you have a grip and use that to pull him into the strike.

Dirty boxing in a clinch would literally be the only useful style, because the first untethered contact of any kind would push the combatants apart and that would be the end of it. Likewise for unconstrained zero-G grappling; it'd be a clusterfuck because if neither competitor had grips for a split second, or lost them during a transition, they'd both fly apart for the rest of eternity. I suppose it could get interesting if they were in a confined space with rigid walls and ceilings. At least then you'd be able to intermittently launch yourself off them to attack.

Maybe this is the golden application of that X-Arm tethered fighting league from a few years back.

 

[SummerStriker]

It'd be almost impossible to stay on a wall without velcro or magnets, though. Equal and opposite reaction and all that.

Unconstrained zero-G grappling would be a clusterfuck because if neither competitor had grips for a split second, or lost them during a transition, they'd both fly apart for the rest of eternity. I suppose it could get interesting if they were in a confined space with rigid walls and ceilings. At least then you'd be able to intermittently launch yourself off them to attack.

I don't mean touching it. I mean facing away from it.

Imagine you're in a fight in space. 10' behind you is a nerf padded wall. 10' behind the other guy is the airlock with a one-button seal. Who's got octagon control?

 

[Deleted member 405583]

I don't mean touching it. I mean facing away from it.

Imagine you're in a fight in space. 10' behind you is a nerf padded wall. 10' behind the other guy is the airlock with a one-button seal. Who's got octagon control?

 

[TheGZA]

I wonder if they ever have fistfights on the ISS. Do cosmonauts haz Sambo?