Define what being a "Leftist" is

Is a Leftist different from a Liberal?

  • Total voters
    53
  • Poll closed .
Anyone left of center. Or in online discussions in the right wing sphere it's anyone to the left of Adolf Hitler.
 
Most respondents responded with the intention of insulting one group or the other, for different reasons and making some stupid tribalist point. But broadly: liberalism is more a way of thinking (prizing reason over accidental affinities or revelation), while "leftist" refers to a position on the ideological spectrum (which is based on equality and hierarchy). There are some basic liberal positions that some leftists may disagree with, such as "limited gov't." "Limited" in this sense, NB, doesn't mean "small"; it means "with limits", i.e., with a Constitution and protection of "rights" (a uniquely liberal concept). It's pretty much impossible for a non-stupid liberal in America in 2018 to identify with the right because the rightist political movement is so tribalist and requires acceptance of so many obviously false beliefs (climate-science denialism, various quack racial ideas, regressive income taxes pay for themselves, various conspiracy theories about their political opponents).
 
American or Euro? In Europe, most parties with the word "liberal" in their title are right wing trickle down morons
 
TBH, I think liberal and leftist are both disappointingly inaccurate terms to describe the current zeitgeist on that side of the political divide. I think progressive and, disparagingly, SJW do a better job of capturing the essence of the movement. Liberal and leftist, while i’ll still use them for the sake of convenience, actually mean different things to me.
 
The Left is about equality, liberty, social justice, and about all humans being siblings. Those are its fundamental principles, imo.
 
This thread has made it clear, the answer is "whatever the person using the term wants it to be".

I'm more interested to know if one can be a conservative or 'on the right' and criticize something Trump does. It seems like to be a conservative or 'on the right' these days, blind loyalty and a joy of trolling is required.
 
Jopious Extronimous said:
This thread has made it clear, the answer is "whatever the person using the term wants it to be".
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What I think this thread really makes clear is just how hopelessly tribalistic and dishonest a lot of people are and how pointless it is to try to even discuss anything with them. People literally cannot answer "what does (word) mean?" without giving their opinion, and the opinions are childishly simplistic. And people can't even try to accurately describe others' viewpoints (which means describing them in a way that others would agree with).
 
Pupi said:
The Left is about equality, liberty, social justice, and about all humans being siblings. Those are its fundamental principles, imo.
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Throw in a drastically reduced Federal government and economic freedoms.. you got yourself a good ole fashioned right wing libertarian
 
Jack V Savage said:
What I think this thread really makes clear is just how hopelessly tribalistic and dishonest a lot of people are and how pointless it is to try to even discuss anything with them. People literally cannot answer "what does (word) mean?" without giving their opinion, and the opinions are childishly simplistic. And people can't even try to accurately describe others' viewpoints (which means describing them in a way that others would agree with).
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You mean characterizing people's opinion as "word vomit" isn't an attempt at an honest and accurate discussion?! Aw man I thought Greoric was starting us off on the right foot...

Honestly I'm kinda wondering what Lead that this was gonna end up being. 90% of the "right" here can't offer an opinion on anything they oppose without childishly reminding people why they oppose it. Around here "the left" is generally characterized as whatever they don't like, and nothing more.

I think islam is disgusting, don't believe in gender fluidity or many of the notions behind transgenderism, and feel we need to strive for an economy with personal responsibility at the foundation, but I'm a total liberal leftist because I think Trump's an incompetent fool. Clearly the forum has abandoned the idea of core principles being the basis of political affiliation. It's now simply "us vs them" and if you're not "us", you're "them". Tribalism at it's peak.
 
Jopious Extronimous said:
This thread has made it clear, the answer is "whatever the person using the term wants it to be".

I'm more interested to know if one can be a conservative or 'on the right' and criticize something Trump does. It seems like to be a conservative or 'on the right' these days, blind loyalty and a joy of trolling is required.
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Yes, you can. In fact, I'm surprised more conservatives and people on the right disregard those moments when Trump runs counter to basic conservative principles than by how much the Democrats point to them. Dem's should pay close attention to Trump because he claims to be ideologically aligned with the GOP. The GOP should actually pay closer attention because he claims to acting in accordance with GOP principles. When a man claims he's doing my bidding, I watch him more closely.
 
Usage is meaning. In today's world most people who are "leftist", tend to be more the SJW. I think it used to mean more communist vs capitalist. If someone is passionate about a subject they tend to start forming extreme views about the subject.

When we enter the world of the internet, terms such as leftist and right winger tend to lose their meaning, as we use them to insult the person we don't agree with.

If you self identify as a term, I think you will start adopting other views that the term is used to define. Such as people who start off caring about social issues may start thinking communism is a better market system than capitalism. That's all just my opinion though.
 
panamaican said:
Yes, you can. In fact, I'm surprised more conservatives and people on the right disregard those moments when Trump runs counter to basic conservative principles than by how much the Democrats point to them. Dem's should pay close attention to Trump because he claims to be ideologically aligned with the GOP. The GOP should actually pay closer attention because he claims to acting in accordance with GOP principles. When a man claims he's doing my bidding, I watch him more closely.
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That's kind of my point though, even when he does something entirely counter to conservative principles, the most we get from Trump supporters is "well shouldn't you guys be happy, he's doing this!". It's almost like they're admitting it's not ideals guiding their support, it's their support guiding their ideals.

I've yet to see anyone who supports the man offer more than a sentence of critique to anything he's done. And he's given both sides plenty of opportunities to critique his positions.
 
Orgasmo said:
I am in support of same sex union, euthanasia, drug decriminalization, abortion right and universal healthcare, but I am against the prevailing PC/SJW censorship culture, deficit spending, open border, mass immigration, foreign intervention and surveillance state. I don't think one word is enough to encompass your political positions on wide range of issues.
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This sounds like my political stance on the issues. It's actual kinda liberal(mostly). Yet I very often get attacked for being too far right from who I would consider the "Leftists" on this board

There is very little liberal in the Leftists IMO
 
Jopious Extronimous said:
That's kind of my point though, even when he does something entirely counter to conservative principles, the most we get from Trump supporters is "well shouldn't you guys be happy, he's doing this!". It's almost like they're admitting it's not ideals guiding their support, it's their support guiding their ideals.

I've yet to see anyone who supports the man offer more than a sentence of critique to anything he's done. And he's given both sides plenty of opportunities to critique his positions.
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I think hardcore conservatives have largely ceded the field to those people whose primary motivation was to beat Hillary and/or reverse Obama. You rarely hear from pro-conservatives anymore, you mostly hear from the anti-Democrats. And while they might look similar from a distance, they really have very little in common.
 
panamaican said:
I think hardcore conservatives have largely ceded the field to those people whose primary motivation was to beat Hillary and/or reverse Obama. You rarely hear from pro-conservatives anymore, you mostly hear from the anti-Democrats. And while they might look similar from a distance, they really have very little in common.
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When we're talking about the war-room, I feel confident in saying the pro-conservatives don't exist anymore. The "right" here is firmly anti-democrat, although honestly I feel they'd support a democrat the second Trump does, so pro-Trump is really all I can give them. It's scary either way.
 
Jopious Extronimous said:
When we're talking about the war-room, I feel confident in saying the pro-conservatives don't exist anymore. The "right" here is firmly anti-democrat, although honestly I feel they'd support a democrat the second Trump does, so pro-Trump is really all I can give them. It's scary either way.
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There are still some of us running around but I mostly agree with you.
 
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