Bob (Mueller)'s 13 Russian Burgers: Russia Investigation v.13

[HomeCheese]

Maybe.

Lets be honest...Most of the fake news, bullshit hype was from Infowars/Various bullshit Right Wing Facebook pages.....So it's not like there wasn't bullshit all over the place already, Russia just added more fuel to the fire...They didn't start the fire.


However Russians seemed to be more organized and targeted districts/states where every vote mattered...I forgot how exactly they did it but I remember they created fake profiles within those communities(Perhaps entered their local pages or added friends?) then spread fake news.

I wonder how many of those fake stories were posted on this board? Plenty I bet.

 

[Ophydian]

As I said before the indictments were in now way protection for Rosenstein or Mueller from being fired. If they were oooking for protection they would had released these indictments before they were duly ready back in January. These indictments are the 1st step in their case to first prove Russia tried to meddle in our election. Now that they have established a crime, the next step is indictments on Americans that conspired with the Russians.

 

[JosephDredd]

One thing to consider is that Mueller already indicted Manafort without Gates' testimony. So what can Gates' offer up against Manafort that is so valuable to Mueller that he give him a plea deal and immunity on all the other charges?

Now a grand jury indictment is different than a court conviction in that it only needs a majority of jurors to find you likely guilty - so maybe it's a case where he wants the sure conviction against Manafort and traded letting his wife off on the bank fraud charges in order to get it. If Manafort thought he had a decent chance to beat the charge he'd never flip but if with Gates' testimony it's a slam dunk against him now - he now has to think about flipping himself or spending the rest of his life behind bars. He likely chooses the latter, but Trump and Co will have to worry about if he doesn't.

Don't forget Manafort just recently brought new charges against Manafort, likely because of Gates' testimony. He's putting the screws in to Manafort, imo.

 

[Quipling]

Don't forget Manafort just recently brought new charges against Manafort, likely because of Gates' testimony. He's putting the screws in to Manafort, imo.

Mueller, I think

And IIRC, they're not actually new charges - its uncharged conduct challenging Manafort's bail. I don't think that its much to do with Gates.

 

[JosephDredd]

Mueller, I think

And IIRC, they're not actually new charges - its uncharged conduct challenging Manafort's bail. I don't think that its much to do with Gates.

Oh, really? Maybe I misread. I was under the impression that the new charges were crimes Mueller learned of after he filed the original indictments.

 

[Quipling]

Oh, really? Maybe I misread. I was under the impression that the new charges were crimes Mueller learned of after he filed the original indictments.

It alleges newly discovered criminal activity, but Mueller hasn't actually filed new charges over them at this point in time.

 

[nac386]

This topic really does more harm than good. Naturally people who hate Trump will believe it played a major role, and naturally people who voted for Trump will downplay this.

Which is why it really should not be a focus of conversation. As a country, we all need to just move on to figuring out how to make sure that it never happens again. We can't unify and do that if half the country is ultra defensive about the issue to the point where they downplay it.

 

[JosephDredd]

It alleges newly discovered criminal activity, but Mueller hasn't actually filed new charges over them at this point in time.

Well, apparently I don't read very well. Thanks for the update.

 

[JosephDredd]

I know Putin has killa Russians on foreign soil but has he ever gone after citizen of a NATO country in that country?

didn't he famously kill that ex spy in Britain with a radioactive isotope?

 

[PolishHeadlock]

didn't he famously kill that ex spy in Britain with a radioactive isotope?

Yeah but again that was a Russian National.

It's pretty crazy to kill him on British soil but I don't think it's on the same level as killing am American in America which has to be seen as close to am act of war. The US would have to retaliate or lose standing as the military Super Power in the world.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I think as we move up the chain and to Trump going into a Grand Jury (he will heed lawyers advice and avoid a direct convo with Mueller), the best outcome is one of his kids (probably Jr) being indicted. The worst outcome is he himself is eventually indicted and likely starts as an unindicted co-conspirator to kickstart impeachment.

Oh, I wouldn't go so far.
I am still shocked that everybody seems to have been sloppy, and when there are shenanigans people usually take steps to insulate The Man from direct involvement. Plausible deniability.

I don't know where this is going but it doesn't look good.

 

[Bobby 3 Sticks]

Yeah but again that was a Russian National.

It's pretty crazy to kill him on British soil but I don't think it's on the same level as killing am American in America which has to be seen as close to am act of war. The US would have to retaliate or lose standing as the military Super Power in the world.

Wouldn't creating opposite protests on the same day in the same city to help increase the societal divide already be considered an act of war?

 

[ShoelessRye]

I'm guessing the propaganda campaign done by Russia had more than a 1% sway on voters. Some voted for Trump instead and many other just didn't vote I suspect.

You can guess that, and I probably agree, but neither of us could ever prove it. I mean 80K votes out of 127M+ cast is <0.01%

 

[Fawlty]

The US would have to retaliate or lose standing as the military Super Power in the world.

I hate to say this, but I think a lot of Americans actually disagree with that at this moment. I'm firmly dove > hawk, but even I couldn't imagine us not retaliating in a major way.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Personally if I thought I won the election fair and square but now all that I've dealt with in the past year is Russian collusion. I might be pissed off about it too.

Do you think he's following his own playbook here or following advice?
IMO there's not much he could do to appear more rustled and guilty.
There's basically no reaction left in the "Big Book of A Guilty Man's Denials"

 

[Bobby 3 Sticks]

Oh, I wouldn't go so far.
I am still shocked that everybody seems to have been sloppy, and when there are shenanigans people usually take steps to insulate The Man from direct involvement. Plausible deniability.

I don't know where this is going but it doesn't look good.

We already know Trump Jr was actively engaging a person he believed to be a high ranking Russian for stolen dirt on a political opponent. Now, the question becomes do these actions add up to a conspiracy against the US. Does the political process count as a lawful government function before votes are cast? That's one of the key questions.

When has the law been used before?
The broad nature of the law means it has been used against a wide range of people.

In 2005, computer hacker Jeanson James Ancheta was indicted under section 371 for using "botnets". He pleaded guilty in 2006 and was sentenced to five years in prison.

Section 371 was also used against Jeff Skilling, the former chief executive of energy firm Enron. He was jailed in 2006 for 24 years, which was reduced on appeal to 14 years.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41807131

 

[ShoelessRye]

This topic really does more harm than good. Naturally people who hate Trump will believe it played a major role, and naturally people who voted for Trump will downplay this.

Which is why it really should not be a focus of conversation. As a country, we all need to just move on to figuring out how to make sure that it never happens again. We can't unify and do that if half the country is ultra defensive about the issue to the point where they downplay it.

I disagree. Trump is still President and passing shit legislation, nominating shit judges and potentially shit SCOTUS Justices, giving millions more to billionaires and deporting DACA Dreamers because Putin and Russia helped him win is not something I'm willing to overlook and move on from.

Trump is still not doing a damn thing about it, sitting on sanctions, still waxing poetic about Putin, willing to attack everybody and every thing except Russia and Putin since this indictment was revealed. Nothing has been done to prevent this from happening in 2018 elections even.

 

[spin]

At one time many months ago, my best, safe guess about all this was that Mueller would net some small fish, and find some lawbreaking. I figured there was probably no actual collusion although it seemed clear the Russians interfered in our election.

With the way DT is reacting now, however, it's hard to draw a conclusion other than that there's something he's specifically bothered by.

He exhibits the aspect of a man who feels guilty about something.

eh, he's in full defensive/persecution complex mode at pretty much all times except at his rallies.



what i mean is its hard to say he looks like he's cracking, when he's already cracked.

 

[Ice That Jaw]

Yes. The Electoral College has always elected the next American President, not the people.

The electoral college casts its own votes?

 

[PolishHeadlock]

Wouldn't creating opposite protests on the same day in the same city to help increase the societal divide already be considered an act of war?

Illegal but I don't think it goes that far. You're manipulating rubes but they are still acting of their own free will. Can't compare that to am assassination imo.