Amazon warehouse workers skip bathroom breaks to keep their jobs, says report

VivaRevolution said:
They are being tracked by management. A flag goes up to management. They are the gate keepers. No one is auditing them.
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Diff LEVELS of management from DIFFERENT parts of the organization; ie operation, finance, and/or internal audit. You talk about "management' like it's some homogenous smoke filled back room. They check on each other. As a CFO, I will know if the numbers are BS, and no I don't lie. I want the truth so I can manage the real situation, lies just ballon until they explode. You are either out of your head or work at a very unique enterprise.
 
Gandhi said:
What does your dystopian/dysfunctional workplace have to do with Amazon workers lying for their rights? It's still a dumb idea and this post is irrelevant.
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Well they could also form a union, but they would probably get fired for trying.

Whether engaging in a falsehood to get a manager fjred, or forming a union, the name of the game is leverage.

My union bargains for me collectively. That doesn't mean I don't bargain for myself individually. I make very clear to my management that my labor, is determined by their actions. My contract requires that I work, it doesn't require me to meet their stupid numbers. I can work to the rule, or slow walk, or whatever we want to call it, and be engaged my full shift, and produce 1/10th of what I will, if instead you just leave me the fuck alone.

That is me bargaining on a individual level, with the rules available to me.

I don't understand why others don't bargain on a individual level.
 
Gandhi said:
Diff LEVELS of management from DIFFERENT parts of the organization; ie operation, finance, and/or internal audit. You talk about "management' like it's some homogenous smoke filled back room. They check on each other. As a CFO, I will know if the numbers are BS, and no I don't lie. I want the truth so I can manage the real situation, lies just ballon until they explode. You are either out of your head or work at a very unique enterprise.
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Look, some of the numbers like your payroll, of course can't be lied about. But when talking about production, their are many ways to fudge the numbers. I've seen work stolen from other shifts. I've seen work counted twice. I can not tell you the creative and innovative ways in which I have seen the system gamed.

If Amazon has finally come up with the first full proof system that can't be gamed, we should let them rule the world.
 
VivaRevolution said:
Well they could also form a union, but they would probably get fired for trying.

Whether engaging in a falsehood to get a manager fjred, or forming a union, the name of the game is leverage.

My union bargains for me collectively. That doesn't mean I don't bargain for myself individually. I make very clear to my management that my labor, is determined by their actions. My contract requires that I work, it doesn't require me to meet their stupid numbers. I can work to the rule, or slow walk, or whatever we want to call it, and be engaged my full shift, and produce 1/10th of what I will, if instead you just leave me the fuck alone.

That is me bargaining on a individual level, with the rules available to me.

I don't understand why others don't bargain on a individual level.
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You slow walking with a union at your back is not even close to what you were suggesting. Again if you don't want to defend your idea about workers lying their way into forcing manager compliance why don't you just admit it was a silly idea?
 
Gandhi said:
You slow walking with a union at your back is not even close to what you were suggesting. Again if you don't want to defend your idea about workers lying their way into forcing manager compliance why don't you just admit it was a silly idea?
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Perhaps I should have more clearly stated it was an analogy.
 
VivaRevolution said:
Look, some of the numbers like your payroll, of course can't be lied about. But when talking about production, their are many ways to fudge the numbers. I've seen work stolen from other shifts. I've seen work counted twice. I can not tell you the creative and innovative ways in which I have seen the system gamed.

If Amazon has finally come up with the first full proof system that can't be gamed, we should let them rule the world.
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You are still not getting it. It's not just payroll, it's the relationship that numbers have with each other and comparisons to history/expectations. All of the games you are talking about can and do happen, but any decent company will have systems /structure in place to spot the distortions. If you are lying about the widgets, but I know my revenue and payroll, my margin per widget will tank compared to budget. At Amazon any idiot could spot if widgets being fulfilled were being fudged, it would not match the revenue and shipping data. And for those companies that can't spot these things? Well unless they are in a unique situation, they are living on borrowed time. They won't be able to manage on false data and are susceptible to massive fraud. I don't know how your company lies all year and then has these "production slides" and still makes any money.

I am not saying managers don't lie or that amazon is game proof, lying is just not the operational norm at any functional/sustainable company. Games happen and if they are material, they get detected or they tank the company. Management is not just a lie free for all with no repercussions.
 
MicroBrew said:
I know the fued has nothing to do with how Amazon treats workers; my point was that Trump could have used Amazon's treatment of workers to score some points against Amazon. He is hitting Amazon for hosing the USPS (according to Trump), so why wouldn't Trump use all means available to win the PR battle.
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Because poor treatment of workers is freedom.
 
VivaRevolution said:
Perhaps I should have more clearly stated it was an analogy.
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You mean this

VivaRevolution said:
Why don't people get together and lie to get rid of bad management?

These managers are cut throat immoral cunts, and should be treated as such.

2 people get together, and say that manager assaulted one of them, and he is looking for a new job.

People keep holding themselves to these ethical standards, that management does not.
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Yeah, even though I fail to see how this qualifies as an anology, when I said it was a bad idea, that might, lol, have been the time to say that you did not mean it as a literal idea.....
 
JonesBones said:
Yes, this was Kant's philosophy. Moral agents are only people who can use reason. Ethics must be based on reason. If you suck somebody's dick for water, or do anything out of desperation at any level, you are not a moral agent. You are a slave to to your physiology in this case. A person can only make a choice with his mind. Not with the bad circumstances he finds himself in. I would argue that many drug addicts are not moral agents. They don't have agency. They are subordinated to physiology through the drug. They are a slave to the drug. This can be applied to many things. Porn. Do you think a woman makes a decision to get into porn in the mental realm? No, it is because she is desperate. The world picks you up and moves you there. It's the only place you can go.

I could argue for example that Jenna Jameson didn't really choose to go into porn. That wasn't in her heart or head, it was all the world gave her. And then we run into your point. Removing choices is a form of force. Nobody are moral agents really because we are too pussy to follow our hearts. If you make a decision out of shame. Or fear. Those are not legit decisions. Because they were colored by other things. Those are outside forces.

Kant is an idealist obviously. lol. Pretty hard ass on this stuff. He also thought you should never tell a lie. Under any circumstances. Ironically, I find parallels between him and Ayn Rand but with a different spin. Kant said a human being is never an end for another but always an end in himself.

Rand said:

"I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." - Ayn Rand

Anyway, point is, Kant would say these people did not consent to work at Amazon lol
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Interesting Kant rant :)

I am sure u agree there is a huge distinction between "non of us having free will" as a philosophical idea and the idea that people can actively manipulate/take adv of the environment to "force" people to do consent or choose to do things.
 
I have a question for the person that said they worked for Amazon: Do you make more money if you exceed the production rate? I know in a lot of production environments in years past you got paid extra for going over the target numbers.
 
HomerThompson said:
He works for Boeing.
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Well that explains some of it.

Long time horizons in what is essentially a high tech construction company. Lots of time to fuck shit up,/play with numbers before reality hits the ground. They also had a failed half assed supplier outsourcing gig overseen by a totally out of touch CEO.

The BSing around with % of completion on a plane is def a somewhat unique, but even here companies get a grip on it or get done in by it.
 
wlu.29 said:
Canadian cities Aren't groveling
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I dunno, maybe not grovelling... but they're sure gonna let Amazon feel their titties.

Toronto is expected to compete with numerous other Canadian cities in the bidding process — including Vancouver, Montreal, Halifax, Ottawa, Edmonton and Calgary — in addition to dozens of cities in the United States.
To bolster its chances, the bid has expanded the familiar Greater Toronto Region to what it calls the "Toronto Region," which stretches from Kitchener-Waterloo to Durham Region.

Lennox said it took "an unprecedented level of cooperation" between the municipalities to join forces on the bid, which ultimately allowed Toronto Global to market itself as home to 7.8 million people.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-amazon-bid-1.4362643
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Gandhi said:
You mean this



Yeah, even though I fail to see how this qualifies as an anology, when I said it was a bad idea, that might, lol, have been the time to say that you did not mean it as a literal idea.....
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Why would you go back 4 posts, and ask if this is the analogy I am talking about?

No, it isn't the analogy I was talking about. It is the post before, the one in sequence with the conversation. If you want to explain why you don't think it is analogous, please do. If you dont, just say so.
 
they could always buy a catheter off Amazon
 
JonesBones said:
Ironically, I find parallels between him and Ayn Rand but with a different spin. Kant said a human being is never an end for another but always an end in himself. lol
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Rand thought that Kant had set out deliberately to destroy the human mind and was the most evil man in history. :eek:
 
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