37 Palestinians and counting dead, 1600 injured bc of Israel

[abiG]

Honestly I think the way forward with a with a real 2 state solution

This is completely impossible at this point, Israel refused two states multiple times and now Palestine is so carved up, two states are now literally impossible.

See how carved up the west bank is today? Do you understand that all the illegal (under international law) zionist settlements, let alone the illegal (under both international and even ISRAELI LAW) 'outposts' here make two states only a talking point for the Israelis to hide behind as they continue to steal land?

 

[Seaside]

Honestly I think the way forward with a with a real 2 state solution began with the Iran deal.

You empower the reformers in Iran and keep pushing for liberalization of them along with what the US was doing with the Gulf States and funding for Hamas and other terrorist activities will dry up and the Palestinians as a whole will be forced to accept a 2 state solution. Israel will no longer have legitimate gripes about security concerns.

Trump has pushed this process back by tearing up the Iran deal and going forward with an embassy in Jerusalem

you see i would believe that. But i think there will always be an issue because of religion. Islam and that type of islam and sunni islam that that region follows and palestinians just is not going to die anytime soon. Maybe a few years has some palestinian reformers in place but what about turkey, and syria, iraq and all the radicals in the gulf states? iran could be reformed but will the collective arab sunni world and wahhabi and hanbali world just say ´´oh palestine be okay with your gaza strip and west bank´´??

of course not. The jew hate and ´´river to sea will be free´´ is not going to go away that is i think wishful thinking. And by the point it emerges again this time palestinians would have an armed state with mountains advantage over the major metropolitan areas of Israel. I think gaza should become part of egypt but egypt wants no part of that to help their brothers. And most of west bank or all of it become israeli and the palestinians get state in jordan that will probably happen with Trump. Population swaps have worked before after ww2 and after the greeks lost to the Turks they not always pretty but if bigger power does it it leads to less violence. I just see no other way to end violence. Last i read to jordan was founded to be an arab only state by the british anyways.

 

[Seaside]

This is completely impossible at this point, Israel refused two states multiple times and now Palestine is so carved up, two states are now literally impossible.

See how carved up the west bank is today? Do you understand that all the illegal (under international law) zionist settlements, let alone the illegal (under both international and even ISRAELI LAW) 'outposts' here make two states only a talking point for the Israelis to hide behind as they continue to steal land?

attacking Israel and embracing terrorism and turning down deals is why they kept losing land. The Jordanians could of also created a state for them during 20 years they owned west bank but they did not.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

This is completely impossible at this point, Israel refused two states multiple times and now Palestine is so carved up, two states are now literally impossible.

See how carved up the west bank is today? Do you understand that all the illegal (under international law) zionist settlements, let alone the illegal (under both international and even ISRAELI LAW) 'outposts' here make two states only a talking point for the Israelis to hide behind as they continue to steal land?

Palestinian leadership never accepted a 2 state solution. The closest it got was in the 90s.

Before Egypt accepted Israel's right to exist they were surrounded by enemies that had attacked them on more than one occasion at all times and they created a buffer zone.

This expansion happened because Israel felt the need to create a buffer zone with good reason.

Until Palestinian leadership accepts their right to exist and the possibilty of a 2 state solution what is the point of talking of borders?

Let's start with those premises to begin with and then we can setup the borders.

 

[PHATV]

This is completely impossible at this point, Israel refused two states multiple times and now Palestine is so carved up, two states are now literally impossible.

See how carved up the west bank is today? Do you understand that all the illegal (under international law) zionist settlements, let alone the illegal (under both international and even ISRAELI LAW) 'outposts' here make two states only a talking point for the Israelis to hide behind as they continue to steal land?

 

[scoopj]

I am talking about how lacking you are in the factual reality.

If you can't figure it out from here, I guess I'll have to let you go on believing your own bullshit.

Ready?

What evidence do you have that the Jews even built a temple anywhere near 957 BC?

It won't get more clear.

Stop playing games and just explain why the date is wrong.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

you see i would believe that. But i think there will always be an issue because of religion. Islam and that type of islam and sunni islam that that region follows and palestinians just is not going to die anytime soon. Maybe a few years has some palestinian reformers in place but what about turkey, and syria, iraq and all the radicals in the gulf states? iran could be reformed but will the collective arab sunni world and wahhabi and hanbali world just say ´´oh palestine be okay with your gaza strip and west bank´´??

of course not. The jew hate and ´´river to sea will be free´´ is not going to go away that is i think wishful thinking. And by the point it emerges again this time palestinians would have an armed state with mountains advantage over the major metropolitan areas of Israel. I think gaza should become part of egypt but egypt wants no part of that to help their brothers. And most of west bank or all of it become israeli and the palestinians get state in jordan that will probably happen with Trump. Population swaps have worked before after ww2 and after the greeks lost to the Turks they not always pretty but if bigger power does it it leads to less violence. I just see no other way to end violence. Last i read to jordan was founded to be an arab only state by the british anyways.

At one point all of the Gulf States were against Israel's right to exist.

The main reason there is much sympathy for Palestinians today is because most of those countries have reverses that position officially (even if private actors in those countries still support Hamas).

It might not seem that way but huge strides have been made.

As long as the US and the rest of the West continue to persue rational policy in the area when it comes to carrots and sticks I think a 2 state solution will appear.

 

[scoopj]

Lol.

“Sources confirmed Netanyahu concluded the solemn ceremony with a 21-gun salute fired directly into a group of Palestinian protesters.”

 

[abiG]

Palestinian leadership never accepted a 2 state solution. The closest it got was in the 90s.

Before Egypt accepted Israel's right to exist they were surrounded by enemies that had attacked them on more than one occasion at all times and they created a buffer zone.

This expansion happened because Israel felt the need to create a buffer zone with good reason.

Until Palestinian leadership accepts their right to exist and the possibilty of a 2 state solution what is the point of talking of borders?

Let's start with those premises to begin with and then we can setup the borders.

LOL at a "buffer zone" to protect an illegal occupation that has lead to decades of human suffering for a native people.

Schools in Phila fucking delphia obviously suck.

Stop playing games and just explain why the date is wrong.

Read the thread, lazy. She already admitted to it.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

LOL at a "buffer zone" to protect an illegal occupation that has lead to decades of human suffering for a native people.

Schools in Phila fucking delphia obviously suck.


Read the thread, lazy. She already admitted to it.

Yup.... didn't even try and retort the official position of Hamas or what got the area where it is today.

As long as Palestinian leadership refuses to accept the right of Israel to exist or the possibility of a 2 state solution they are forcing Israel's hand.

And for the record I don't think Israel is blameless but they share less of the blaim and you are empowering hardliners in Israel.

And they have the bigger guns...

 

[scoopj]

True, I believe that was codified as part of the Oslo accords in 93. But I kind of see it as the opposite side of the Israeli coin, namely that Israel has stated it is committed to a peaceful solution for the past 70 years, while continuously making land grabs on Palestinian territory. Basically, it seems to me that Israel is firmly committed to making the entirety of Israel into the Jewish homeland (as opposed to only a certain percentage of it), and the self evident raging antisemitism among Arabs makes it look doubtful to me that they'll ever fully acknowledge Israel's right to existence. You can't even get into most Arab countries with an Israeli passport...

Israel has less land now than they did at the end of the 6 day war.

 

[Grenz]

Israel is not without blame but Hamas activity just empowers Israeli hardliners just like Trump is empowering Iranian hardliners.

Israel will not allow an enemy at the gates and I can't say that stance is without reason. But you are right that their settlements harm any attempt at a 2 state solution.

But I think the Palestinians (aided by arabs at first and Iran more now) have been more detrimental to reaching a 2 state solution.

You could be right about that. I think in order to move forward, Palestine has to acknowledge that it's not exactly in a position to be making demands. My family is originally from Prussia, they had to flee all along the North Sea coast to get to Hamburg when the Russians began to close in during the latter stages of the war. Prussia of course, specifically where they lived (Koenigsberg), is Russian today, because we fucked up. We don't get to ask for it back now, claiming some shit about Bismark and the absolute centrality of Prussia to early German statehood. We fought, we lost, and they took some of our land. That's how it goes, time to move on.

At the same time though, I don't think they've ever been offered a true 2-state solution, rather it appears like something almost resembling an Israeli colony, with some of the lands gained being bound by a contractual period even. And that leads me back to the issue of Zion, and that Zion by definition isn't just a part of Israel, it's the entire thing. I don't see the Jews really budging on that anytime soon, not for several generations at least.

I'm just a hack and my opinion counts for nothing, but in a pragmatic sense for the Palestinians, it makes the most sense to launch a mass appeal to the Arab world and ask to be taken in as full citizens wherever they land. Fuck it, abandon ship. Wanna do this another 70 years?

Then Israel can have their precious Zion - the concept of which is entirely based on their 4,000 year old book of fairy tales - in it's entirety, which was sort of a necessity in the end anyway, seeing how current Israel isn't big enough to house significantly more people. Surrounded on all sides by people that will always hate them, at least for the foreseeable future if history is any indication, in god's chosen land, which for some reason isn't the Swiss Alps, the lush jungles of Borneo, or the Pacific NW, but rather a relatively small piece of dry shitty land with cool stuff like a lake in which fish can't even survive.

 

[scoopj]

LOL at a "buffer zone" to protect an illegal occupation that has lead to decades of human suffering for a native people.

Schools in Phila fucking delphia obviously suck.


Read the thread, lazy. She already admitted to it.

I have read the thread and I haven’t seen you do anything but ask questions. Why is the date wrong, and what is the correct date?

 

[abiG]

Yup.... didn't even try and retort the official position of Hamas or what got the area where it is today.

HUH? It's the illegal occupation that got us here. Day one shit.

As long as Palestinian leadership refuses to accept the right of Israel to exist or the possibility of a 2 state solution they are forcing Israel's hand.

As shown, two states are impossible now as the land grab and occupation has turned the west bank into swiss cheese, Gaza into a cage full of 1.5 million human beings who are literally being eliminated daily, let alone the near total loss of Jerusalem, a city that never even has been part of Israel.

But you knew all that I guess.

Now, WHAT RIGHT DOES AN ILLEGAL OCCUPYING POWER HAVE TO STEAL MORE LAND AND CALL IT A BUFFER ZONE USED TO PROTECT SAID ILLEGAL OCCUPATION?

I have read the thread and I haven’t seen you do anything but ask questions. Why is the date wrong, and what is the correct date?

Read the thread, lazy. It will all be clear. Hell, she admitted it.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

This thread just shows how fucked the west is lol

Not one person cares about Palestine

Not one person cares abt anyone in the middle east outside of Israel


You guys dont realize Israel runs congress, runs the media and has conditioned and brainwashed you stupid america sheep

lol

you might be exaggerating on several different counts. i dont agree with what israel is doing, but lets not pretend all palestinians are innocent. in my opinion, thats what makes this conflict so difficult to solve. both sides can legitimately point to assholes on the other side, and claim that this is justification for whatever they decide to do next. its like two street gangs constantly performing revenge killings.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

HUH? It's the illegal occupation that got us here. Day one shit.


As shown, two states are impossible now as the land grab and occupation has turned the west bank into swiss cheese, Gaza into a cage full of 1.5 million human beings who are literally being eliminated daily, let alone the near total loss of Jerusalem, a city that never even has been part of Israel.

But you knew all that I guess.

Now, WHAT RIGHT DOES AN ILLEGAL OCCUPYING POWER HAVE TO STEAL MORE LAND AND CALL IT A BUFFER ZONE USED TO PROTECT SAID ILLEGAL OCCUPATION?


Read the thread, lazy. It will all be clear. Hell, she admitted it.

Cam you define the illegal occupation so we can go forward

 

[scoopj]

HUH? It's the illegal occupation that got us here. Day one shit.


As shown, two states are impossible now as the land grab and occupation has turned the west bank into swiss cheese, Gaza into a cage full of 1.5 million human beings who are literally being eliminated daily, let alone the near total loss of Jerusalem, a city that never even has been part of Israel.

But you knew all that I guess.

Now, WHAT RIGHT DOES AN ILLEGAL OCCUPYING POWER HAVE TO STEAL MORE LAND AND CALL IT A BUFFER ZONE USED TO PROTECT SAID ILLEGAL OCCUPATION?


Read the thread, lazy. It will all be clear. Hell, she admitted it.

Give a date and back it up pussy.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

This is completely impossible at this point, Israel refused two states multiple times and now Palestine is so carved up, two states are now literally impossible

See how carved up the west bank is today? Do you understand that all the illegal (under international law) zionist settlements, let alone the illegal (under both international and even ISRAELI LAW) 'outposts' here make two states only a talking point for the Israelis to hide behind as they continue to steal land?

That first map labeled Palestine is fake news bruh....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

"The resolution recommended the creation of independent Arab and Jewish States and a Special International Regime for the city of Jerusalem. The Partition Plan, a four-part document attached to the resolution, provided for the termination of the Mandate, the progressive withdrawal of British armed forces and the delineation of boundaries between the two States and Jerusalem. Part I of the Plan stipulated that the Mandate would be terminated as soon as possible and the United Kingdom would withdraw no later than 1 August 1948.

...

The Plan was accepted by the Jewish Agency for Palestine, despite its perceived limitations.[5][6] Arab leaders and governments rejected it[7] and indicated an unwillingness to accept any form of territorial division"

 

[abiG]

i dont agree with what israel is doing, but lets not pretend all palestinians are innocent.

Seriously, of course there are idiots everywhere, but what would you do? What would you consider legitimate resistance to an illegal occupation? If it were you, and your family.

Cam you define the illegal occupation so we can go forward

You are like Seaside; you are clueless on these topics.

Why on earth you people come in here pretending to be knowledgeable about this and then ask a question like that is beyond belief.

 

[abiG]

Give a date and back it up pussy.

Just read the thread. It is crystal clear.