37 Palestinians and counting dead, 1600 injured bc of Israel

[PolishHeadlock]

You could be right about that. I think in order to move forward, Palestine has to acknowledge that it's not exactly in a position to be making demands. My family is originally from Prussia, they had to flee all along the North Sea coast to get to Hamburg when the Russians began to close in during the latter stages of the war. Prussia of course, specifically where they lived (Koenigsberg), is Russian today, because we fucked up. We don't get to ask for it back now, claiming some shit about Bismark and the absolute centrality of Prussia to early German statehood. We fought, we lost, and they took some of our land. That's how it goes, time to move on.

At the same time though, I don't think they've ever been offered a true 2-state solution, rather it appears like something almost resembling an Israeli colony, with some of the lands gained being bound by a contractual period even. And that leads me back to the issue of Zion, and that Zion by definition isn't just a part of Israel, it's the entire thing. I don't see the Jews really budging on that anytime soon, not for several generations at least.

I'm just a hack and my opinion counts for nothing, but in a pragmatic sense for the Palestinians, it makes the most sense to launch a mass appeal to the Arab world and ask to be taken in as full citizens wherever they land. Fuck it, abandon ship. Wanna do this another 70 years?

Then Israel can have their precious Zion - the concept of which is entirely based on their 4,000 year old book of fairy tales - in it's entirety, which was sort of a necessity in the end anyway, seeing how current Israel isn't big enough to house significantly more people. Surrounded on all sides by people that will always hate them, at least for the foreseeable future if history is any indication, in god's chosen land, which for some reason isn't the Swiss Alps, the lush jungles of Borneo, or the Pacific NW, but rather a relatively small piece of dry shitty land with cool stuff like a lake in which fish can't even survive.

When it comes to the Palestinians going to other countries.... I think that's why we need a 2 state solution.

My opinion is as hack as yours but the reason Israel really came to be accepted by the international community it because it was the best solution to the "Jewish Question" in Europe. Nobody wanted them.

Do the other Arab countries want them? How do they treat Palestinian communities that currently reside there?

 

[PolishHeadlock]

Seriously, of course there are idiots everywhere, but what would you do? What would you consider legitimate resistance to an illegal occupation? If it were you, and your family.


You are like Seaside; you are clueless on these topics.

Why on earth you people come in here pretending to be knowledgeable about this and then ask a question like that is beyond belief.

So enlighten us

 

[Rod1]

Another US middle eastern "ally" that gets to massacre unarmed populations and the US still backs them up.

But when Assad did it, literally Hitler.

 

[scoopj]

Just read the thread. It is crystal clear.

So you’re saying there was no Jewish temple built prior to the Muslims coming to Jerusalem. Got it.

 

[abiG]

So you’re saying there was no Jewish temple built prior to the Muslims coming to Jerusalem. Got it.

Close. Thanks for reading. It would be closer, however, for you to say that there is no actual evidence of the first temple or any temple built anywhere near 957 BC.

On top of that, the only reference to such a temple comes from our Torah and Talmud. Keep in mind that in the academic world, no one I respect and no one that respected historians respect for that matter, use religious text as an historical reference tool.

 

[Grenz]

When it comes to the Palestinians going to other countries.... I think that's why we need a 2 state solution.

My opinion is as back as yours but the reason Israel really came to be accepted by the international community it because it was the best solution to the "Jewish Question" in Europe. Nobody wanted them.

Do the other Arab countries want them? How do they treat Palestinian communities that currently reside there?

Not very well for the most part which has always been a contributing factor to the hopelessness of the Palestinian situation. The people around them who proclaim to be their brothers don't seem to be fully committed to coming up with a solution. There is a fuckton of money in parts of the ME, and absorbing 4.5 million people spread out over the whole ME is obviously extremely challenging, but it's far from a logistical impossibility. But yea, the will doesn't appear to be there.

 

[scoopj]

Close. Thanks for reading. It would be closer, however, for you to say that there is no actual evidence of the first temple or any temple built anywhere near 957 BC.

On top of that, the only reference to such a temple come from our Torah and Talmud. Keep in mind that in the academic world, no one I respect and no one that respected historians respect for that matter, use religious text as an historical reference tool.

Said another way, unless someone can prove that a temple existed 3000 years ago, then it didn’t. Gotcha. Pretty flimsy. Look at all of the allusions to Jerusalem in the Bible, compare those to what’s in the Koran, look at the dates of the writings and tell me who has a stronger claim to the city.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

Not very well for the most part which has always been a contributing factor to the hopelessness of the Palestinian situation. The people around them who proclaim to be their brothers don't seem to be fully committed to coming up with a solution. There is a fuckton of money in parts of the ME, and absorbing 4.5 million people spread out over the whole ME is obviously extremely challenging, but it's far from a logistical impossibility. But yea, the will doesn't appear to be there.

And that's why I see the 2 state as the only plausible solution.

But the Palestinians must accept it and embrace it as so.

Israel is here to stay. Palestine has international goodwill at the moment but it won't last

 

[abiG]

Said another way, unless someone can prove that a temple existed 3000 years ago, then it didn’t. Gotcha. Pretty flimsy. Look at all of the allusions to Jerusalem in the Bible, compare those to what’s in the Koran, look at the dates of the writings and tell me who has a stronger claim to the city.

Yeah, but again, respected historians do not use religious text as an historical reference tool. If you are comfortable using religious text in that way, then you will remain confused.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Tell me again who, time and again, rejected a 2 state solution? Tell me again who preferred rocket strikes instead of talks at the table? Palestinians should denounce their leadership if they want peace.

Tell me who again was displacing the other from the beginning of the Mandate period? Who constantly used leverage with the US to get slanted deals in their favor and diplomatic cover?

Israeli leadership won't allow peace, the status quo is too good for them right now.

 

[JbModest]

Is criticizing the government of Israel, or Zionism equal to anti semitism?

Not at all. Overly sensitive people claim that it is. That's not to say that many anti zionists are also anti Semites.

 

[LuchaBear]

why is it a big deal if isreal killed a bunch of defiant protesters? isreal told them to stop..... but the Pallie's wanted to play stupid games, so they got stupid prizes. they very well knew that they would be killed..... they wanted to see Allah, so isreal helped them get there

What I'll never understand... You know that there's always violence and killing in these so called "protest." Every time! So why do you bring your fucking kids? Have a protest in your streets but bringing your family and children right to the borders where people are throwing rocks and molotovs??




Palestinians don't care about Palestinians. There's your fucking problem.

 

[JbModest]

What I'll never understand... You know that there's always violence and killing in these so called "protest." Every time! So why do you bring your fucking kids? Have a protest in your streets but bringing your family and children right to the borders where people are throwing rocks and molotovs??




Palestinians don't care about Palestinians. There's your fucking problem.

It looks good for the cameras from the Palestinians point of view. The more blood, the more isolated Israel becomes.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

This is completely impossible at this point, Israel refused two states multiple times and now Palestine is so carved up, two states are now literally impossible.

See how carved up the west bank is today? Do you understand that all the illegal (under international law) zionist settlements, let alone the illegal (under both international and even ISRAELI LAW) 'outposts' here make two states only a talking point for the Israelis to hide behind as they continue to steal land?

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Palestinians turn down the 2 state solution in the Partition Plan (2nd picture) and attack the Israelis?

 

[LuchaBear]

HUH? It's the illegal occupation that got us here. Day one shit.


As shown, two states are impossible now as the land grab and occupation has turned the west bank into swiss cheese, Gaza into a cage full of 1.5 million human beings who are literally being eliminated daily, let alone the near total loss of Jerusalem, a city that never even has been part of Israel.

But you knew all that I guess.

Now, WHAT RIGHT DOES AN ILLEGAL OCCUPYING POWER HAVE TO STEAL MORE LAND AND CALL IT A BUFFER ZONE USED TO PROTECT SAID ILLEGAL OCCUPATION?


Read the thread, lazy. It will all be clear. Hell, she admitted it.

You might first want to prove that this "stolen" land was the Palestinian's to begin with.. And no, being called Palestine doesn't mean it's owned by them.

Was it before the Ottoman Empire had it for 400 years? Was it after War War 1 when Britain defeated the Ottoman Empire and got control of the land?

At what point exactly did this land become the Palestinian's?

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Tell me who again was displacing the other from the beginning of the Mandate period? Who constantly used leverage with the US to get slanted deals in their favor and diplomatic cover?

Israeli leadership won't allow peace, the status quo is too good for them right now.

You mean when 1 side officially rejected a 2 state solution? Hint: it wasnt Israel

 

[Islam Imamate]

You mean when 1 side officially rejected a 2 state solution? Hint: it wasnt Israel

No, before the two state solution. Who was displacing who under Mandatory Palestine? So much so the British made it illegal and yet they continued? Hint it wasn't the Palestinians.

 

[JbModest]

What @abiG wants is the end of Israel. If there was only one state, there would be civil war.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

When it comes to the Palestinians going to other countries.... I think that's why we need a 2 state solution.

My opinion is as hack as yours but the reason Israel really came to be accepted by the international community it because it was the best solution to the "Jewish Question" in Europe. Nobody wanted them.

Do the other Arab countries want them? How do they treat Palestinian communities that currently reside there?

I don't know how a 2 state solution is going to happen, there are half a million Israeli settlers in the West Bank that have built cities and then another quarter of a million that have bought property and live in East Jerusalem. How are they going to remove these people? It's going to have to be one state with 2 peoples.

 

[Islam Imamate]

What @abiG wants is the end of Israel. If there was only one state, there would be civil war.

Israelis don't seem to want to allow a two state solution either, the status quo allows them to slowly swallow more and more land via the settlements which will soon become non-negotiable "realities on the ground"

At this point the two state solution is dead, there's going to have to be some kind of one state solution whether the Israelis and Palestinians want it or not.