Betsy DeVos and the Trump administration battle the #metoo movement

Cake4Breakfast said:
You are setting up a false choice between no scrutiny and allowing an opposing attorney to cross examine a sexual assault victim.
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What is reasonable scrutiny in your opinion, that somehow doesn't make the accuser prove their case?
 
panamaican said:
Interesting and worth quoting. To what extent did his administration raise the burden of proof?
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My phrasing was actually misleading and I mis-remembered this from my law school days. I should (and will) edit my post to be more clear.

The Obama-era guidelines promulgated a preponderance standard for federally-funded schools so that disciplinary proceedings were consistent with other civil proceedings under Title VII, since the school is a de facto government entity and the proceedings a de facto civil proceeding. Before that, there was more or less complete discretion to schools on the subject. The guidelines would immediately have the effect of requiring schools to retain documented evidence that the PoE standard was met, limiting their discretion. However, the guidelines also had the effect of making the preponderance standard a persuasive ceiling, since schools employing higher standards could (theoretically) be vulnerable to liability in cases of misconduct, since their noncompliance with federal guidelines would be documented and subsequent civil actions about the handling could be subject to a lower standard.

Actually, the more I re-familiarize myself with the subject, I'm okay with this part (and only this part) of DeVos's actions, given that schools are fundamentally ill-suited to handle the fact finding of these incidents.
 
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Cake4Breakfast said:
You are setting up a false choice between no scrutiny and allowing an opposing attorney to cross examine a sexual assault victim.

And your Salem Witch Trial example still sucks, insulting me doesn't help your shit example.
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Any other crimes we aren't allowed to ask the accuser about before handing out punishment, or in your case violent vigilantism?

As we all know, scorned young girls are ALWAYS honest about sex, are never vindictive, always consider consequences, and absolutely never try to engage in reputation destruction.
 
sniper said:
Wait, can you have to defend yourself against a phantom in court right now?
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We had a thread where a woman's friend accused the guy of raping some woman. And the guy never knew who the accuser was. It was the recent thread where the surveillance video saved the guy cause the woman was all over him at the bar.
 
Orgasmo said:
All sexual assault should be reported. There need to be investigations. Conclusions will need to be evidence based in a proper court of law. Accusing others of sexual assault without evidence has serious social consequences for the accused even when he's not guilty, and that has no place in a free and democratic society.

I'm assuming you are in favour of the Salem witch trials which 19 women ended up being hung and black men being lynched by a white mob in the 18th century for "desecrating" white women? That's your vigilante justice working well right there.
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I would suggest there is a big delta between the Salem Witch Trials from the 1800's and a young woman who says she was sexually assaulted today. First of all there is no such thing as magic or being a witch while there are many, many young women who are assaulted on college campuses. Maybe try a different example.
 
Jackie Blue said:
One of the relatively few things I agree with the Trump Administration on. This witch hunt against young men and the kangaroo courts and the sexual assault moral panic needs to come to an end.
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Now watch them fuck this slam-dunk up as well. DeVoss is who the coach picks at 49-0 at the 2 min warning of the 3rd quarter, just to somehow lose 49-56
 
Cake4Breakfast said:
You are setting up a false choice between no scrutiny and allowing an opposing attorney to cross examine a sexual assault victim.

And your Salem Witch Trial example still sucks, insulting me doesn't help your shit example.
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Having legal representation to cross examine the accounts of the accuser is a very reasonable thing to do. If the campus investigation has a chance for the accused to be sanctioned by the school and referred to criminal probe, then the accused deserves to be represented by a counsel. What do you think proper scrutiny is?

Salem witch trial is a great example of a lynch mob carrying out vigilante sentences for false charges, something which you actively encourage. Modern Western society is built on the rule of law, not rule of the mob. You don't get to take matters into your own hands just because you think the person is guilty of a charge.

HomeCheese said:
I would suggest there is a big delta between the Salem Witch Trials from the 1800's and a young woman who says she was sexually assaulted today. First of all there is no such thing as magic or being a witch while there are many, many young women who are assaulted on college campuses. Maybe try a different example.
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That idiot was advocating for vigilante justice and taking matters into his own hands. The Salem witch lynch mob did just that. Change the charge from witchcraft to sexual assault and you essentially get the same feeble minded mob mentality of forgoing due process.
 
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Cake4Breakfast said:
most girls who are sexually assaulted don't report it, and this will just make them less likely to report it.

and yeah, vigilante justice works well, if you are smart.
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Yeah, just like communism. Keep dreaming, Cake.
 
Cake4Breakfast said:
most girls who are sexually assaulted don't report it, and this will just make them less likely to report it.

and yeah, vigilante justice works well, if you are smart.
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How do you know most don’t report it ?
 
HereticBD said:
What is reasonable scrutiny in your opinion, that somehow doesn't make the accuser prove their case?
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Have an independent investigator that is trained how to assess sexual assault. Putting up another barrier by asking young girls to be cross examined by an accuser's hired attorney is just going to lead to more sexual assaults going unreported. False reporting is rare, with 90-98% of reports of sexual assault being legitimate, whereas 2/3 sexual assaults go unreported.
 
Orgasmo said:
Having legal representation to cross examine the accounts of the accuser is a very reasonable thing to do. If the campus investigation has a chance for the accused to be sanctioned by the school and referred to criminal probe, then the accused deserves to be represented by a counsel. What do you think proper scrutiny is?

Salem witch trial is a great example of a lynch mob carrying out vigilante sentences for false charges, something which you actively encourage. Modern Western society is built on the rule of law, not rule of the mob. You don't get to take matters into your own hands just because you think the person is guilty of a charge.


That idiot was advocating for vigilante justice and taking matters into his own hands. The Salem witch lynch mob did just that. Change the charge from witchcraft to sexual assault and you essentially get the same feeble minded mob mentality of forgoing due process.
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No it isn't for reasons I listed in my response to HereticBD above.

And your Salem Witch Trial example still sucks.
1. Witches are not real.
2. I said if my daughter were sexually assaulted, therefore it wouldn't be a false charge now would it?
3. I am not a mob, am I?

But call me more names and keep trying to patronize me, that is a good way to dig yourself out of the moron hole you dug with your example..
 
Jackie Blue said:
Yeah, just like communism. Keep dreaming, Cake.
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Hey, currently 6 out of every 1,000 people who commit sexual assault do time for it, explain to me how that is the outcome of a good system? And explain to me how Brock Turner from Stanford got what he deserved getting only 6 months?
 
Ripskater said:
"Believe all victims" may come to an end on college campus.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news...s-college-sexual-assaults-20181114-story.html






My opinion, listen to both sides, there's 2 sides to every story. Weigh the evidence. The accused should be able to know who is accusing them. And the accused have a right to question their accusers. Good for Betsy DeVos and good for the Trump administration.

Discuss
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This is LONG overdue.

A *MALE* College Student shouldn't have to be dealing with his life and reputation ruined just 'cause a girl he slept with had "buyer's remorse" the following morning.

Once this sweeping change goes into effect, the Females on-campus will NO LONGER have the UNDESERVED Power over the Male Students.

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THANK GOD for Betsy DeVos and THANK THE UNIVERSE FOR DONALD J TRUMP. :cool:
 
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